Dragons in the Bible. Do you believe they are real or a myth?

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I agree with you. And because we don’t know very accurately what Bible means with dragon, it is not possible to tell it is or was not real.

I believe Job 41 (the Leviathan) is a description of a dragon. For it has impenetrable scales and it can breath fire and it is suggested that it can fly in the fact that God can potentially play with this creature like a bird (Job 41:5).
 
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In my view, Job uses a traditional story as a framework for a reflection on evil and suffering. We have a fairly brief story at the beginning, told as a straight narrative, a long poetic book, and then a brief conclusion. If anything is historical (which I doubt) it would be the narrative, certainly the introduction and maybe even the conclusion. There's no reason to think that the images in the poetry have to be literal.

Since I don't think God actually lets Satan torment people to win a bet, I assume the narrative is a traditional story and not a history. But that doesn't really affect the status of the poetic section. Even if you believe in Biblical inerrancy, it doesn't mean that the whole Bible has to be history. There can be various forms of literature in it. Another example is Jonah, which is an obvious satire.

I disagree, my friend. Both the book of Job and the book of Jonah are real life stories that actually happened. Nothing in the text suggests that are myths. In fact, Jesus referred to the story of Jonah as if it was a real life event (See Matthew 12:41).
 
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JIMINZ

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The most straightforward reading of the text is that it is a poetical description of real animals. We are discovering new animals all the time and many others have become extinct. I don't see any issue with Leviathan being a genuine large animal (perhaps similar to a giant crocodile) that is now extinct.

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My Post #9
 
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Is this referring to Behemoth in Job 40?

I just did a search. I think the other poster may have been referring to this verse.

"Who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth, and makes us wiser than the fowls of heaven?" (Job 35:11).

You said:
I'd argue that Leviathan is a description of a physical creature. If you ignore the chapter divisions, the description of Leviathan follows immediately after the description of Behemoth "which I made along with you" (Job 40 v 15)

I agree 100%.
Well said.

You said:
Leviathan would have been created along with the other sea creatures (Genesis 1 v 20-22) and Behemoth with the land creatures (Genesis 1 v 24-25) No other animals are mentioned by name, so I don't see why these two should be mentioned by name either.

I agree.

You said:
The most straightforward reading of the text is that it is a poetical description of real animals. We are discovering new animals all the time and many others have become extinct.

I agree.

You said:
I don't see any issue with Leviathan being a genuine large animal (perhaps similar to a giant crocodile) that is now extinct.

Like a dragon, I believe this creature had flown.

For in Job 41, God says to Job,
"Will you play with him as with a bird?" (Job 41:5).

Like a dragon, I believe this creature had impenetrable scales (See Job 41:7, Job 41:15-17).

Like a dragon, I believe this creature could breath fire (See Job 41:18-21).

Like a dragon, this creature had a neck (which is unlike those who think this was a flying serpent) (See Job 41:22).

Like a dragon, he had spikes (Which in this case was under his belly and marked the ground and or muddy regions near water) (See Job 41:30).

Like a dragon, this creature (the Leviathan) follows the description of the Behemoth (Which was huge in size and dinosaur like to our knowledge).
 
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People I think have a hang up in the fact that this creature (the Leviathan in Job 41) breathed fire (Which is the hallmark signature of dragons). But the bombardier beetle can shoot hot super heated toxic gas (as hot as boiling water) that can burn a human's skin to the bone. In fact, smoke comes out of the backside of this bug but the bug does not burn up himself.

So can God create a fire breathing type creature like a dragon?

You betcha.

For with God, all things are possible.
 
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Chris V++

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IMHO the artist renderings of pterodactyl dinosaurs loosely resemble the descriptions of mythical dragons. How do we know that the bones of those dinosaurs in the natural history museums aren't the same family of creatures described in the Bible, and that they couldn't spit fire or fire producing acid?
Maybe the world's natural history museums are full of fire breathing dragon skeletons that we now call pterodactyls.
 
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Sanoy

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I think He could compare the adversary mythologically because levithan was considered to have a hybrid form. There are depictions of Levithan throughout the ANE and it always has a hybrid appearance. It was known as a lion serpent, and walked on four legs. In ugarit it was lotan, a 7 headed dragon (like Revelation) and in Chaldean it was known as Mushussu, as is likely what actually takes the flower of life in the epic of gilgamesh instead of a snake which isn't even in the text ( text reads earthlion).
 
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IMHO the artist renderings of pterodactyl dinosaurs loosely resemble the descriptions of mythical dragons. How do we know that the bones of those dinosaurs in the natural history museums aren't the same family of creatures described in the Bible, and that they couldn't spit fire or fire producing acid?
Maybe the world's natural history museums are full of fire breathing dragon skeletons that we now call pterodactyls.

While pterodactyl's can be quite large in size, I do not believe they are the fearsome beast (i.e. the Leviathan) described to us in Job 41. The pterodactyl is more bat or bird like with it's bones and it is not something fearsome to look at. While again, pterodactyls can be quite big sometimes (Note: You can see a really big one in the Natural Science Museum in Houston, Texas), size is not the determining factor of a creature always being fearsome in nature. I believe the Leviathan was a fearsome beast that is commonly known as as a dragon. History records many sightings of these dragons. For one, the Leviathan has to top the Behemoth (Which is like a really big sauropod type dinosaur). God talks about the Leviathan in such a way that leaves destruction in it's wake, and it has impenetrable scales, and it can breath fire. While people would like to think dragons are myth, I don't believe they are. I believe the Bible perfectly describes one in Job 41. For the Leviathan has a spiked underside that leaves marks in the ground according to Job 41. I do not see that being the pterodactyl.

God likes to do things big. The way the creature is described, it is to top all of the other creatures before it that He mentioned.

I mean, can you imagine folks one day discovering that fire breathing dragons are real? People would probably poops themselves if they found that out. Some folks would have to go back and relook at Scripture again.
 
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I think He could compare the adversary mythologically because levithan was considered to have a hybrid form. There are depictions of Levithan throughout the ANE and it always has a hybrid appearance. It was known as a lion serpent, and walked on four legs. In ugarit it was lotan, a 7 headed dragon (like Revelation) and in Chaldean it was known as Mushussu, as is likely what actually takes the flower of life in the epic of gilgamesh instead of a snake which isn't even in the text ( text reads earthlion).

Where in Scripture does it say the 7 headed dragon is Leviathan? Where in Scripture does it say that the Leviathan has a hybrid form?

As for the epic of gilgamesh: That is not the Bible and is not the actual truth to what the Bible actually says. In the epic of gilgamesh, it says the Ark was a cube. This is clearly false. That would not even have worked scientifically. All the animals and Noah and his family would be rolling around together in a cube flipping over in the water. Yeah, so the epic of gilgamesh cannot be trusted.
 
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It should not surprise folks that most people think dragons are myth and legend. So the written account of the Leviathan is just a joke to some unbelievers and or it is metaphorical to certain believers (who read Job 41 metaphorically). However, in 2004, Paleontologists had discovered a dinosaur skeleton that had a head (skull) that was in the same shape as the head of old drawings of dragons from myth and legend.

full



Here is an artist rendition of what the beast would look like with skin, etc.

full
 
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mark kennedy

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Dear Mark:

Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope you are doing well in the Lord today.
Anyways, to get down to business in what you have said:



You need to prove that using the Bible, my friend.



You said that the Leviathan is not indicating an actual sea monster in your post. You said it was basically a myth and now you are not saying that?
By saying it is a myth, I have a right to say it is a gross misinterpretation because the Bible does not say the Leviathan is a myth unless you can give me the actual verse that says that. Oh, and the word Leviathan used as a metaphor does not prove that the Leviathan is a myth itself. There are many metaphors in the Bible that use colorful language to describe something but the colorful language is based upon things in our real world.



Where in Job 41 do you see a crocodile being described?
I see a serpent like creature with impenetrable scales that can breath fire in Job 41. It does not say that it's anger is like fire coming out of it's mouth. It says that it actually breaths fire. You either believe that or you don't.



Do you believe sea monsters existed?



While I would be willing to apologize if I have wronged you, I do not believe I had any ill will towards you with my heart and or my words, my friend. In fact, I do not in all honestly believe I was condescending towards you. I was trying to say that your interpretation was gross (or wrong). I can surely say that because I strongly disagree with your interpretation. I do not believe that is the same thing as being "condescending." Nowhere did I suggest that you are child by what I said. I believe that when a person is "condescending" they seek to put somebody down and or they tell someone else they missed something basic (like looking a dictionary) thereby suggesting they are not intelligent or they are child like (who needs basic education). Nowhere did I make such a claim towards you. I believe "condescending" is when a person says to another person, "Hey look Jimmy, why don't you let the big boys talk for a while." Nowhere did I ever say such a thing towards you. Nowhere was my attack against you. It was merely in your interpretation that I disagreed with that I felt was seriously not correct. For the Bible does not say the Leviathan is a myth or a myth pointing to some other basic animal (like a crocodile).



You said, I quote:

"The figurative language is meant to be dramatic, nothing indicating an actual sea monster." ~ Mark Kennedy.

So you believe that this is not a sea monster. So the idea that it is a sea monster is a myth, right? Even though God Himself clearly describes a dragon like creature that He (suggestively) plays with in Job 41. God lists this creature alongside other animals within His creation. The point here is God's creation is too wondrous for Job to comprehend. If Job 41 is not talking about an actual dragon as it says then it would destroy the whole point God was trying to make with Job.



The creature in Job 41 is not a crocodile because it is described as a fearsome beast that has impenetrable scales that can breath fire. So no, I do not believe it is a crocodile.

I also believe that a dragon is more fitting as in reference to Satan instead of a crocodile. Dragons are depicted as leaving mass destruction and death. This is exactly what Satan does to our world and to lost souls (who are unwilling to repent).



While commentaries can be helpful sometimes, I personally try not to use them and I do not seek to make them my bedrock for my belief in what the Scriptures say. Granted, I am not saying you are doing that, but you seem to put stock in what this commentary is saying. I would simply like for you to point me to the verse that actually says that the Leviathan is not an actual description of something like a dragon. For when I read Job 41, this is the impression I get. I see a description of a dragon.



Again, the text in Job 41 would be non-sensical if God was talking about a mythological creature or a mythological creature that represented another real life animal (like a crocodile). God talks about this creature called the Leviathan along other animals and he describes it as a fearsome beast that can breath fire. The point here is that God was trying to show Job about how if he was unaware of God's magnificent creation, then how is he (Job) able to comprehend God's ways? Meaning, there was a reason Job suffered in God's greater plan for good. The Leviathan was mentioned next to other animals to make that example. Rendering it as a myth just kind of destroys that idea. I do not believe God would perpetuate a lie or a myth. In other words, I do not think God would ever talk about Superman with us because he is purely a fictional character made up in the minds of men. I do not believe God would push this kind of fiction within His Word because it is not real or true. God always speaks truth. Mythology is not always 100% truth. John 17:17 says, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

Anyways, I say all of what I said to you because I care.
For I love you in Jesus Christ.

In any event, whether we agree or disagree, may the Lord's love shine upon you today.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.
Jason I think you mean well but you have totally misunderstood my point. In Job it appears, just from the context, this is some fearsome but natural creature, I suggested a crocodile not that it important. It was also used in Urgaic (Phonecian) lore to speak of a sea monster. Secondly, 'rousing the leviathan', was a euphemism for pronouncing a curse which sounds occultic to me, God tells him you will remember the experience a long time and you will never do it again. In Scripture the image strongly suggests Satan, a natural creature in exaggerated terms, representing the devil himself. Now I dont know why you want to make this into a contest but it's not going to edify anyone, on the contrary, this kind of divisive and contentious spirit drives threads off topic and into the ground.

Enjoy the figurative language, it's part of the process. Job was the first book of the Bible I studied in depth and I've revisited it many times since. The leviathan is little more then a sea story, used as a figure of speech, for the devil. Its subtle, but it's significant in the larger context of why this happened to Job.

Its figurative language, not unlike mythic monsters and demons. These monsters feature prominant in Summerian and Urgaic mythology. Here it's just a figure of speech.
 
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gordonhooker

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I am a KJV-onlyist and I do believe the word "unicorn" is talking about a wild ox (or cattle like creature) that has one horn. I believe there are other KJV-onlyists who believe the same thing, as well. Granted, I do not agree with everything that KJV-onlyists believe (mind you).

well there you go - that explains it. :)
 
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Neogaia777

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There are spirit, creatures now, that are like beasts, like fallen man, and when we see these depictions of fearsome beasts, coming up out of the "sea" or whatever, it is talking about one of these spirit creatures, to describe what they were or would be like... But it is the spirit behind the depiction that is a being, that try's to find a man or person's or people just like him/it/them, or are willing to follow it/them, and resides there for a time...

The snake becoming a dragon is pretty interesting, remember it is describing a spirit being...

God Bless!
 
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Dan the deacon

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I get a bit ticked hearing people claiming to be Christian saying this creature God is speaking of is a myth. It is basically calling God a liar.
What's next? Do we also say the gospels are just an allegory? That St.Paul's epistles are comicbooks and also not real? You either believe the Bible or you don't. I need make up no excuses for God's Word. His Word is truth.
 
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Neogaia777

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I get a bit ticked hearing people claiming to be Christian saying this creature God is speaking of is a myth. It is basically calling God a liar.
What's next? Do we also say the gospels are just an allegory? That St.Paul's epistles are comicbooks and also not real? You either believe the Bible or you don't. I need make up no excuses for God's Word. His Word is truth.
I just know and have found that the Bible is full or allegory or metaphor, and I have found that, what is allegory and metaphor is what's real, or describes what's real, in and about spirits, and in a spirit realm...

And not some far away place, but here, with us... And they may even be connected... Anyway...

God Bless!
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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I believe dragons mentioned in the Bible like the Leviathan in Job is a real creature. In fact, Satan is compared to a dragon. If a dragon was mythological, then God would have compared our adversary to something that was a myth or a lie. But I do not believe God would do that. Hence, why I believe dragons mentioned in the Bible are real creatures (or mentioned as a way of comparison).

What do you say?
Can you prove to me that the Leviathan of Job was a creature of earth, and not some distant planet?
 
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Can you prove to me that the Leviathan of Job was a creature of earth, and not some distant planet?

Somebody already mentioned this before.
If you were to skip back to Job 40:15 it mentions how the Behemoth was made with mankind. Technically there are no chapter breaks and this is all one long discourse about God's creation here (Which would include the Leviathan).
 
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Erik Nelson

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You can go with the human definition in some Theological dictionary or you can read about this creature in Job 41. When you read Job 41, it doesn't sound like it is a whale or a crocodile being described. I don't get that impression when reading Job 41. I get the impression that it is a dragon by it's description because it says this creature has impenetrable scales and it can breath fire, etc.
Well, that's the Leviathan.

Isaiah 27:1 equates the singular Leviathan with the nachash serpent of Eden and calls it the tanniyn of the ocean.

Somehow, it's a symbol, possibly literally also, of the Devil, as stated in Revelation as well
 
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