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Dragons in the Bible. Do you believe they are real or a myth?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    Do you think they could have been dinosaurs? And then as the earth had been formed and populated then God didn't need them any more so the flood wiped them out.
     
  2. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of The Dragon, That Serpent Of Old, Who Is The Devil And Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
    Revelation 20:1-2




    So The Great Dragon Was Cast Out, That Serpent Of Old, Called The Devil And Satan, Who Deceives The Whole World; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Revelation 12:9
     
  3. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The evidence indicates that the dinosaurs went extinct some 63,000,000 years ago. However I am sure that they were aware of dinosaur fossils and these could have led to legends of fabulous creatures.
     
  4. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Not a bad argument, it certainly fits the context. Do the birds fly south by your wisdom etc, a sound argument. There are some subtle hints here, not worth pursuing unless you have the temperament. I love the imagary because God offers a clue, to what it means to rouse the leviathan. God did, but Job dare not. Just a thought, carry on.
     
  5. Doulos 7

    Doulos 7 New Member

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    Behemoth could very well refer to a species of dinosaur
     
  6. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    rhinoceros?

    the Biblical writers knew about them
     
  7. Doulos 7

    Doulos 7 New Member

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    I think the reason many of us are u dear the impression that dragons are myths is because of the movie industry! Hollywood has always done their best to discredit the truth! They make things that God made, and are obviously real out to be fake, they have done the same with God for years!
    Hollywood leaves us under the impression that we just watched a movie about some mythical figure that can never and will never exist, come on! Are we willing to let them influence us?
     
  8. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    the Hebrew appears to be H8577 tanniyn = monstrous marine creatures including whales and crocodiles

    doesn't mean Dungeons and Dragons dragons
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, why do you have to be so condescending? I replied to your point before in reference to how you think I need to look at a dictionary. You again, act like I missed that fact even when I talked about it? Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to say I missed it again, when I actually talked about that fact. There is no need to keep being smart about it and say I missed it when you know I addressed your point about looking at a dictionary.

    Besides, anyone can look at a dictionary, but if a person is not looking at that word in the proper context, they can force a wrong interpretation upon what they are reading. For as you know, words can look and sound the same, but they can have multiple meanings. So a person studying the Bible also has to look at the context, and cross references, too. However, nowhere in the context (nor in any other part of the Bible) is this creature (the Leviathan) said to be of myth and legend and it is just something more smaller and simple like a reptile that we currently know about. I say this because you gave a "like" to another poster saying that the Leviathan is a myth and that is just a symbol of evil. I mean, you do agree that dinosaurs once existed, right? A dragon is basically a big dinosaur, but the only difference is that it can breath fire. I know. You probably have a scientific hang up with that idea. But have you ever heard of the bombardier beetle?

    It can shoot out of it's backside a super heated toxic liquid that can burn human flesh to the bone. Literal smoke comes out of this bug when it shoots it's liquid to harm predators.



    I already mentioned this fact before within this thread. Not sure why your mentioning it to me proves that you are right. Do you believe the unicorn mentioned in the Bible is a myth? Or do you think it is talking about an animal we are already familiar with? I believe the unicorn mentioned in the Bible are the extinct aurochs with one horn. These were giant cattles or bull like creatures with one horn. At least, that is how the Bible describes them. Do you believe that such a creature existed, or do you think the Bible was exaggerating using colorful metaphors?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Indeed. As a result of Hollywood, some could even falsely think Jesus was only a mutant with super powers. But we know that Jesus is God (i.e. Second person of the Trinity) according to the Scriptures.

    But yes; You are right. Many see these things (like Dragons) in Hollywood, and think it can never be possible because they have been repeatedly fed over and over and over and over and over again by Hollywood that these are just fantasies. It's conditioning. One has to forsake the things of this world, and follow Jesus. For we cannot love the things of this world. I believe that this issue comes down to a lack of faith in what God's Word says. It is too fantastic for them to consider that such a creature could have once existed (or even exists now). Maybe they don't want to be laughed at or ridiculed. I don't know. Whatever their reasons, I do not find it to be a sound way of reading the Bible. The Bible talks about how these things are real and they do not suggest that they are of myth or make believe.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You can go with the human definition in some Theological dictionary or you can read about this creature in Job 41. When you read Job 41, it doesn't sound like it is a whale or a crocodile being described. I don't get that impression when reading Job 41. I get the impression that it is a dragon by it's description because it says this creature has impenetrable scales and it can breath fire, etc.
     
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am a KJV-onlyist and I do believe the word "unicorn" is talking about a wild ox (or cattle like creature) that has one horn. I believe there are other KJV-onlyists who believe the same thing, as well. Granted, I do not agree with everything that KJV-onlyists believe (mind you).
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While the book of Job is dated as the oldest book in the Bible, I believe the story of Job took place sometime between the story of Joseph and the story of Moses.

    See this article here:
    https://levendwater.org/books/job.pdf
    (For it gives biblical data suggesting of the chronology of Job in the Bible).

    I believe Job 41 talks about a fire breathing dragon.

    This suggests that dragons existed after the flood; At least the Leviathan anyways. For God talks about this creature as if it exists in the here and now. In fact, through out history, there have been many reports of dragon sightings.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Actually the Bible does give us the clues on when the book of Job took place.

    Check out this article here:
    https://levendwater.org/books/job.pdf

    I agree. I do not believe God would speak of this creature in Job 41 as being a myth because it is mentioned alongside other animals or creatures and they are all used as a point to show Job how what God does is beyond Job's understanding.
     
  15. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I agree that that is possible - although I doubt there is much chance of dragons existing in these modern times. Given the high tech modern age - that's about as far fetched as believing in Sasquatch.

    I will go so far as to suggest that there is possibly still a plesiosaur in Loch Ness.

    Have you considered that the sightings of dragons (as in the case of ghosts and Sasquatch) have their origin in the fallen spirit world?
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Dear Mark:

    Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    I hope you are doing well in the Lord today.
    Anyways, to get down to business in what you have said:

    You need to prove that using the Bible, my friend.

    You said that the Leviathan is not indicating an actual sea monster in your post. You said it was basically a myth and now you are not saying that?
    By saying it is a myth, I have a right to say it is a gross misinterpretation because the Bible does not say the Leviathan is a myth unless you can give me the actual verse that says that. Oh, and the word Leviathan used as a metaphor does not prove that the Leviathan is a myth itself. There are many metaphors in the Bible that use colorful language to describe something but the colorful language is based upon things in our real world.

    Where in Job 41 do you see a crocodile being described?
    I see a serpent like creature with impenetrable scales that can breath fire in Job 41. It does not say that it's anger is like fire coming out of it's mouth. It says that it actually breaths fire. You either believe that or you don't.

    Do you believe sea monsters existed?

    While I would be willing to apologize if I have wronged you, I do not believe I had any ill will towards you with my heart and or my words, my friend. In fact, I do not in all honestly believe I was condescending towards you. I was trying to say that your interpretation was gross (or wrong). I can surely say that because I strongly disagree with your interpretation. I do not believe that is the same thing as being "condescending." Nowhere did I suggest that you are child by what I said. I believe that when a person is "condescending" they seek to put somebody down and or they tell someone else they missed something basic (like looking a dictionary) thereby suggesting they are not intelligent or they are child like (who needs basic education). Nowhere did I make such a claim towards you. I believe "condescending" is when a person says to another person, "Hey look Jimmy, why don't you let the big boys talk for a while." Nowhere did I ever say such a thing towards you. Nowhere was my attack against you. It was merely in your interpretation that I disagreed with that I felt was seriously not correct. For the Bible does not say the Leviathan is a myth or a myth pointing to some other basic animal (like a crocodile).

    You said, I quote:

    "The figurative language is meant to be dramatic, nothing indicating an actual sea monster." ~ Mark Kennedy.

    So you believe that this is not a sea monster. So the idea that it is a sea monster is a myth, right? Even though God Himself clearly describes a dragon like creature that He (suggestively) plays with in Job 41. God lists this creature alongside other animals within His creation. The point here is God's creation is too wondrous for Job to comprehend. If Job 41 is not talking about an actual dragon as it says then it would destroy the whole point God was trying to make with Job.

    The creature in Job 41 is not a crocodile because it is described as a fearsome beast that has impenetrable scales that can breath fire. So no, I do not believe it is a crocodile.

    I also believe that a dragon is more fitting as in reference to Satan instead of a crocodile. Dragons are depicted as leaving mass destruction and death. This is exactly what Satan does to our world and to lost souls (who are unwilling to repent).

    While commentaries can be helpful sometimes, I personally try not to use them and I do not seek to make them my bedrock for my belief in what the Scriptures say. Granted, I am not saying you are doing that, but you seem to put stock in what this commentary is saying. I would simply like for you to point me to the verse that actually says that the Leviathan is not an actual description of something like a dragon. For when I read Job 41, this is the impression I get. I see a description of a dragon.

    Again, the text in Job 41 would be non-sensical if God was talking about a mythological creature or a mythological creature that represented another real life animal (like a crocodile). God talks about this creature called the Leviathan along other animals and he describes it as a fearsome beast that can breath fire. The point here is that God was trying to show Job about how if he was unaware of God's magnificent creation, then how is he (Job) able to comprehend God's ways? Meaning, there was a reason Job suffered in God's greater plan for good. The Leviathan was mentioned next to other animals to make that example. Rendering it as a myth just kind of destroys that idea. I do not believe God would perpetuate a lie or a myth. In other words, I do not think God would ever talk about Superman with us because he is purely a fictional character made up in the minds of men. I do not believe God would push this kind of fiction within His Word because it is not real or true. God always speaks truth. Mythology is not always 100% truth. John 17:17 says, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

    Anyways, I say all of what I said to you because I care.
    For I love you in Jesus Christ.

    In any event, whether we agree or disagree, may the Lord's love shine upon you today.

    With loving kindness to you in Christ,

    Sincerely,

    ~ Jason.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  17. cigarshaped

    cigarshaped Newbie

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    A bit late posting this. Was it a flaming comet?
    I wonder if anyone heard of Immanuel Velikovsky? He authored several books linking originally to the children of Israel and the strange things that befell them in the Exodus (Worlds in Collision). He expanded to explore prehistoric geology and other ancient world events. His main theme is that the Solar System is not always as placid as it seems currently. He was convinced that comets and planets change their orbits and humanity suffered catastrophic events due to these revolutions in space. His main culprit for disasters was planet Venus!

    It certainly seems that ancient man witnessed strange events in the sky and often blamed the gods, Venus being one of them. If we look at Venus now it is a remarkably different planet: virtually red hot, severely scarred, reverse rotation and the most circular orbit. Was it a recent addition to the Solar System? Velikovsky raised a huge (negative) reaction from conventional astronomers, most of whom never read his work. He dared to suggest that uniformity and gravitational mechanisms may not govern the universe after all. He actually trawled hundreds of sources from the great university libraries and came up with some interesting evidence.

    Early astronomers somehow missed the brightest object in the sky:
    Hindu, Brahmian and Babylonians listed 4 planets Saturn, Jupiter, Mars and Mercury. Democritus (460 ~370 BC) described a great star that joins the stars. The Pythagoreans talked of a comet, one of the planets appearing at great intervals.
    A quick list gives you an idea of what humanity thought of this rogue rock.
    FEARFUL DRAGON - Ishtar
    BLAZING STAR - Phaeton (Hesiod, Greece)
    SNAKE - LIKE body transformed into star - Quetzal-Cohuatl (Mexico)
    Venus SMOKED and had a BEARD
    The 'bright torch of heaven', diamond like the sun'
    Brilliant light of Venus blazes the cosmos (Hebrews)
    Chinese 'visible in daylight, rivalled the Sun's brightness'
    'clothed with fire - crown of awful splendour' Assyrian (Ishtar); Arabic "Zebbaj" 'one with hair'
    'circling star scatters its flame in fire' Egypt (Sekhmet) 'circling star scatters its flame in fire'
    COMA - HAIR (Greek) typical comet
    WAVY-HAIRED Chaska (Peru)
    BULL'S HEAD - Astarte of the horns (Sanchoniathon - Canaan)
    GOLDEN CALF - Aaron in Sinai?
    BULL worship (Egypt and Greece)
    HORNS grew out of her head, planet Venus became wild (Samon)
    LUCIFER/ Hesperos
    ATHENE/ MINERVA (Athens named after Venus) - Goats annually sacrificed
    Born mid second millenium BC in the time of Ogyges, in synch with Joshua.

    Biblical references:
    Isa 9:2 " ..Light of Noga (Venus) was upon them" ('Naga' in Hindu = snake gods/ comets)
    Israelites carried the 'star of your god', which you made.
    Amos 5:26 Lucifer image carried in wilderness
    Num 21:9 Bull of Aaron/ brazen serpent of Moses - cure for snake bites
    II Kings 18:4 Brazen serpent pillar of cloud/ fire
    II Kings 23:5 Incense to Baal, Sun, Moon and planets (Babylonian trinity = Venus, Moon and Sun)
    Jerem 7:18, 44:17 "..burn incense to queen of heaven.."

    Later Baal Zevuv (Beelzebub) - Baal of the fly (plagues of flies)
    Mexicans closed doors and windows when 'smoking star' Venus appeared - fly infestation.

    And so it goes on. Possibly a comet/ dragon-like planet with elongated orbit for several thousand years. Caused mayhem and earned worship. May have influenced to 1500BC Red Sea crossing? Eventually settled into regular orbit quite recently? Human calendars had 360 days until after 700 BC. Japanese calendars started from -660.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe two of every kind was on the Ark (as the Bible says). I believe that the dinosaurs were able to fit because they were the baby versions and not the full adult sized ones.

    "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female." (Genesis 6:19).
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You can see on YouTube video footage of dragon sightings. Are they real or fake? I imagine some are fake, but are all of them fake? Also, the Leviathan was said to come up out of the waters. So if it can live in waters or dark places, it is not beyond imagining that is beyond our scope of surveillance. In fact, we discover new animal species still every year.

    I agree. It is possible.

    If a Christian seeks out dragons as the focus of their life, instead of following Christ, then I would say they missed the message of what the Lord desires for their life. Granted, this is not to say that we cannot check out to see if these things are genuine or not on occasion. While it is possible that these dragon sightings could be demonic, we would need to have evidence that they are by a Christian casting them out in Christ's name (like Christians had done with alien (demonic) encounters). We would need proof that every time a person had a dragon sighting, they were the kind of person who was into the occult in some way.

    As for Sasquatches:
    Sasquatches are not mentioned in the Bible. Yes, I believe they are more likely to be false because they have been tied to the occult.

    As for ghosts:
    Yes, I believe both ghost encounters and alien encounters to be demonic.
    The Bible describes how Saul talked with a ghost of Samuel. However, this was not the real Samuel but it was a demonic deception.

    Dragons are something that is actually mentioned as a real creature in the Bible. So if one approaches the findings in a scientific way, I do not see that as being any different than trying to find owls (as a part of Science), etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  20. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I agree with you. And because we don’t know very accurately what Bible means with dragon, it is not possible to tell it is or was not real.
     
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