Dragon Ball & Mythology: What exactly is the worldview based on?

Gxg (G²)

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When he was so accommodating of Goku, while everyone including Whis is worried, I thought either he is not who he seems, or he is so powerful he can be casual.
As an aside...

If you've kept up with the new Super Series, it is rather crazy to see what has occurred so far. The Battle of the Gods has been rather amazing so far...

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Gxg (G²)

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Zamasu represents a Lucifer type creature - a prodigy, but prideful thinking he can be a better god than God. He gets too big for his pants getting a kick out of judging "mortals," until Zeno has to destroy him.

Right now, if you've been following the series, it is seeming to possibly go that direction with regards to thinking little of mortals. It was rather surprising to see their reactions when universes were wiped out.


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Nathan98

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I used to watch all the series of DBZ and DBS, but came to realize that Saiyans are actually an alien race, and that aliens are basically fallen angels, as in devils. So I gave up watching the show, and I hope you do too, because there are also more things that are as questionable about the show.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I used to watch all the series of DBZ and DBS, but came to realize that Saiyans are actually an alien race, and that aliens are basically fallen angels, as in devils. So I gave up watching the show, and I hope you do too, because there are also more things that are as questionable about the show.
Aliens are not fallen angels, as no one in the Jewish worldview was that the mindset - so I question whether or not you understand fully where your views do not line up and I hope you begin questioning whether your views are fully based in scripture since the show is not a concern when reading the Scriptures.
 
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Nathan98

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Aliens are not fallen angels, as no one in the Jewish worldview was that the mindset - so I question whether or not you understand fully where your views do not line up and I hope you begin questioning whether your views are fully based in scripture since the show is not a concern when reading the Scriptures.

And I assume the fact that there are multiple characters who are referred to as gods like Beerus, Champa, Zamazu, Belmod, etc. are also passable in scripture?
 
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Gxg (G²)

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And I assume the fact that there are multiple characters who are referred to as gods like Beerus, Champa, Zamazu, Belmod, etc. are also passable in scripture?
Unless one actually avoided what Judaism described when saying God was the "god of Gods" and other things discussed in Judaism (i.e. Monolatry, etc.), yes - one needs to be aware of scripture since the Scriptures never notes there were not other gods. God was supreme but there were other beings - that's a basic.


This was shared earlier in the discussion, as noted here:

Henotheism and Monolatry are things you may see thrown out as descriptions (although neither are what I adhere to) when others don't know the concept of the Divine Council. Michael Heiser is with Logos Bible Software and his skills in the field of Near Eastern culture are nothing to play with, so he is very prominent within the Evangelical World.

Of course, due to some of his views which may be more controversial because it goes against a lot of the older thoughts of Fundamentalist/Dogmatic camps within Evangelical culture that had a very limited understanding, it has led to some battles. Any kind of similarity of thought to other camps which are not endorsed is automatically interpreted as being the exact same thing - similar to others saying "Birds have wing" and then seeing others say "You can't say Birds have wings to fly since that'd mean they're like PLANES or Bats - they have wings too!!!".....people can't understand nuance of thought or similarity. This has come up a couple of times whenever people in the world of Mormonism try to reference his work outside of the Judaic context he made it in when they push their ideology - and he has addressed this a couple of times, even though many Evangelicals don't know it....so Heiser and other Evangelicals against Mormonism speak out for clarity in one camp while the Fundamentalist Evangelicals in another label Heisner/the Evangelicals with him as somehow supporting Mormonism - a radically different concept from Christianity that is Biblical/consistent on several levels (more shared here in Search results for "Mormonism" | Dr. Michael Heiser ) since both are seeking to deal with Gnosticism and Arianism (condemned as heretical in the Church).

However, you don't see that battle as much within the world of Orthodoxy. They largely don't care since their focus is that a lot of what has happened in Evangelical Christianity is simply a battle of reinventing what they already laid out - yet still get no credit for. And Orthodoxy understands this concept and the immense magnitude of God in many ways stronger than other camps in Christendom. For when reading the Word, of course we realize that the language of "gods" is used to refer to those who were in authority/rank in the heavenlies (angels, spirits, etc), Job 1:5-7, 2 Corinthians 4:4, 2 Peter 2:10-12, Jude 1:8, 1 John 5:19, Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 6:11-13, Daniel 9:1, John 12:30-32, John 16:10-12, Colossians 1:15-17, Colossians 2:14-16 ...

I've mentioned elsewhere how I've always been fascinated with the way the TORAH often describes things within the Heavenly/Angelic realms....and when it comes to the Torah/seeing the dynamics of it, I'm amazed at how often it seems that many divorce what is discussed in the scientific realm from it as if they have no connections. To me, it has always been amazing to see how sci-fi the angelic realm can seem at times----especially when seeing the many descriptions of angels. Some to consider, starting with Daniel 10:5-6
Isaiah 6:2
Ezekiel 1:4-14

Ezekiel 10:20-21
Revelation 10:1
2 Kings 2:11
Revelation 4:8a
2 Kings 6:17
When reading the Word, it has many of the descriptions of many angels is reminiscent of some of the critters that the science-fiction genre comes up with….as it relates to how they were described in the Word of God & how often their prescence alone was enough to inspire awe in men/to the point of worshipping them...from having wheels (As in Ezekiel, Ezekiel 1:19-21, Ezekiel 3:12-14 , Ezekiel 10:18-20 , Ezekiel 11:21-23, etc) to having jewels all over their bodies (as in Daniel 9-10, Daniel 10:1 )....from the seraphs with SIX wings in Isaiah 6:2/Isaiah 6:1-3to the creature in Revelation with MULTIPLE EYES ( Revelation 4:7-9 & 4 Revelation 5:5-7 ) .......Or the Angel of Death that punished David/Jerusalem (1 Chronicles 21:15-17/ 1 Chronicles 21 ) and MANY others too numerous to place here in this thread.

The point is that just as it is with Dragon Ball universe, there is IMMENSE diversity....and of course, I believe 100% Christ has dominion over them all :)


Colossians 2:15


. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[e]
Colossians 1:15-21
The Supremacy of the Son of God

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
I am thankful for how the Orthodox people I run with understand that in the Old Testament, the heavenly or divine council is the host of angels surrounding God, “advising” Him...and we can see this theme in Job 1–2, 1 Kings 22, and so on, even though the concept was also seen in Genesis 1-2. ...and mankind is meant to become a part of that Council (Theosis - or the idea of God in the form of Christ becoming a man so that through Him men might become gods).

As another noted best:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth—but only the earth was without form, void, and dark. God spends six days forming, filling, and brightening the earth, bringing it closer to the fullness of its heavenly model.

Man is called in Genesis 2:4 the “generations of the heavens and the earth.” He is the son of the Spirit of God (heaven) and the dust of the ground (earth). As he grows in communion with God, he will pull the material creation with him. This is why Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 is the heavenly man.

God made a soulish body in Genesis 2, but the resurrected body is a spiritual body. It is fully animated by the Holy Spirit, and Christ as Last Adam brings the whole creation up with him.

Angels are the persons inhabiting the heavenly realm.

They have a single free choice, after which their will is fixed. They are fully in communion with God (angels) or fully wicked (demons). They don’t change or mature or repent. This is why, after all, they are neither married nor given in marriage. God creates them as a host.

By contrast, God creates a single man, pulls a woman from his side, and commands man to gradually multiply into a host. Hence, in the eschaton, man is “like the angels.” The human race is fully mature, it has reached the fullness of its population, and the creation is fully glorified. Christ, as in Ephesians 1, has united heaven and earth in himself. This is the goal towards which the whole Bible strains, from Genesis through Revelation. In Genesis 1, God addresses His council. This is why God says “let us.” This ought not to be opposed to the Trinitarian reading, because the plurality of God is the very foundation for God’s communion with created persons.

Created persons are incorporated into the intercommunion of the divine persons. We see another “plural” passage in Isaiah 6, where it is clearly God addressing His council. The council-reading is the foundation for what we read in Job—as God was creating the world, the angels (sons of God) were singing for joy by His side.


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The Elders of the Apocalypse, 13th century fresco. The Crypt of St Magnus, St Mary Cathedral, Anagni. Italy, 13th century.

This idea is interesting to me. Traditionally, I always thought religions (especially Christianity) were adamantly against the idea of extraterrestrial life as it would undermine the idea of humans being the most important creation thus undermining the narrative of the world's two biggest religions (Christianity and Islam). It's interesting to see that not everyone agrees with that premise. Is it reasonable to say that there is a sizable portion of theologians who accept the possibility of extra-terrestrial life or is that regarded as fringe?


Concerning Dr. Heiser - he is Evangelical ....and one of the people within Evangelicalism that has actually been very honest on issues that others within the camp may have strayed away from when it comes to trying to combat other damaging teachings in the Body of Christ and being willing to cross those "theological borders" that many have not been willing to do because of being told they cannot go to explore what has happened in the world of others - and I'm thankful for his noting many things which the Early Church has been saying for some time. Been following his work for sometime now and blessed by it. Concerning his background, he is the academic advisor of LOGOS Bible Software - Brother Mike earned an M.A. in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania (major fields: Ancient Israel and Egyptology). ..spent twelve years teaching biblical studies, history, and biblical languages on the undergraduate level...with his main research interests in Israelite religion (especially Israel’s divine council), biblical theology, ancient Near Eastern religion, biblical languages, ancient Semitic languages, the history of the biblical texts, and ancient Jewish binitarian monotheism, as his dissertation was entitled, "The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature.” The dissertation sought to discern the ancient Israelite background to Judaism's "Two Powers in Heaven" godhead teaching. For more information, one can investigate his Does Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible Demonstrate an Evolution From Polytheism to Monotheism in Israelite Religion? ).....as what was offered was really part of a chapter in a series of 8 papers. All of which are very well-researched and with many intriguing thoughts. One can also investigate his article entitled “Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism: Toward an Honest (and Orthodox) Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible“. I have to agree with him when it comes to dealing with what the texts says plainly, concerning other "gods" being in existence outside of the Lord/Creator who is above all....especially in light of what is described in Psalm 82 and what the Lord does in using the Psalm to refer to Himself/others in John 10 - and the ways that it has been perverted by other groups claiming Christ (i.e. Mormonism, Arianism, etc.) and making it out to be something else entirely when forgetting to glorify the MOST HIGH God/Christ above all else....and why Christ went out of the way to place all religions/their respective deities in check by what He did at the Cross (Colossians 2:15)


Additionally, For further information:

Dean Briggs (of Ekklesia Rising ), with the ministry of IHOP (International House of Prayer), actually spoke on the same thing when it comes to our role in glorifying Christ and glorifying the Lord by reminding others of why God was jealous for his people not running to the "gods" of other nations/others trying to distract from who the Most High was - as seen in
Legislating in the Divine Council

Being the most important creation isn't separate from making other creations - and as it is, when seeing the way Heaven looks and the differing forms described in the Scriptures, there is all manner of wildlife present there which shows God as a creator loves to create.

And yes, there is indeed a sizable portion of theologians accepting the possibility of extra-terrestrial life.


At the end of the day, the show is a SHOW - a story.

C.S Lewis did the same thing using mythological points to help others see things when discussing The Chronicles of Narnia - and the same with Tolkien when he made Lord of the Rings. And of course, there's also Paul in Acts 17 when speaking on how others making notice to an unknown God among others and he used the opportunity to speak about the Lord.

But again, legalism causes folks to miss A LOT of what was noted in scripture. That said, if you're in this thread, the focus is on the anime Dragon Ball Z (and Super). If you do not like the show, there's no reason discussing back-and-forth in a thread about the show since that's not the topic. You can always make a thread detailing why you feel shows/anime shows do not help Christians.
 
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