Dr Robert Malone and cardiologist Dr Peter McCullough are the latest to be reinstated to Twitter

[FireDragon76]

The "contribution" isn't the aspect people take objection to, it's the way he's touted by other people (and in some instances touted himself) to be "the inventor of this technology", as to imply that he's THE premier inventor or subject matter expert on the topic, purely because he aligns with them on this issue and feel it gives their arguments additional credibility. If Malone had been pro-mRNA vaccine, then people would be accusing him of being a "shill" (just like they do to offit) under the premise "he made all of his money in the vaccine industry"


Being one contributor on the research team, decades ago, for a technology that's matured a lot in the last decade, doesn't necessarily give him the final say on the subject.

Same way a software developer working on a team that contributed to Windows 2000 can't lay claim to "I invented Windows 10"

MRNA technology had lots of seed money from the government, lots of research from many different people to make the vaccines happen.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Also we had to show proof of Vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test. We weren't forced to get vaccinated.

Not to split hairs, but isn't that a little bit of "indirectly forcing people"?

Saying, "we're not forcing you, but you won't be able to participate in these common, everyday life functions & interactions again until you do" doesn't differ a lot in it's implications.

At the very least, it's strong coercion.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

When Newson was at a party. He gave CA the okay to have 3 families at gatherings. . If anything they weren't. strict enough. Also we had to show proof of Vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test. We weren't forced to get vaccinated. Also a lot of people were ignoring guidelines. The states was encouraging vaccinations. But they weren't forcing them at all. Even nurses didn't have to get vaccinated. They had to show proof of a negative COVID-19 test. If they didn't get vaccinated.

Not true. There were several areas that did NOT recognize exemptions (illegally):

"Guards, janitors, administrators and other California corrections personnel who don’t provide health care services directly but who may be exposed to the coronavirus will now be required to get vaccinated under a new state public health order released this week.


The public health order issued Thursday builds upon an earlier order requiring that an estimated 2.2 million healthcare workers in California, whether private or public employees, be fully vaccinated by the end of September. Workers cannot opt out by agreeing to weekly testing."

Some California prison workers now required to get vaccinated against COVID-19

Guards, janitors, administrators and other California corrections personnel who don’t provide health care services directly but who may be exposed to the coronavirus will now be required to g…

ktla.com

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The "contribution" isn't the aspect people take objection to, it's the way he's touted by other people (and in some instances touted himself) to be "the inventor of this technology", as to imply that he's THE premier inventor or subject matter expert on the topic, purely because he aligns with them on this issue and feel it gives their arguments additional credibility. If Malone had been pro-mRNA vaccine, then people would be accusing him of being a "shill" (just like they do to offit) under the premise "he made all of his money in the vaccine industry"


Being one contributor on the research team, decades ago, for a technology that's matured a lot in the last decade, doesn't necessarily give him the final say on the subject.

Same way a software developer working on a team that contributed to Windows 2000 can't lay claim to "I invented Windows 10"

I don't really care what part he did or didn't do. The point is that he has a role in the development - whatever it is - and clearly understands this technology.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

He adjusted his guidance as the strains mutated to be milder, and as we got to Delta and Omicron, and the protection against transmission was diminished and it largely became an individual benefit instead of a communal one. There was a strong case for getting vaccinated amid original strain and alpha as the transmission protection was pretty robust against those strains (even if a person, themselves, wasn't at a huge individual risk)

That's not "changing ones tune" (as to imply that someone flip flopped), that's "altering one's dance after the tempo of the song changes."


People have been trying to use Omicron-centric statistics to attempt to retroactively justify/vindicate their positions (regarding the original strain) they had in 2020.


It'd be like a person who was anti-Jacket & Gloves in January waiting until May, and then saying "see, I was right all along, you don't need a jacket to go outside, and everyone else stopped wearing them too, proving that they secretly know I was right!"

Any protection was extremely short lived. Weeks, at most and they knew this. No reason to take any risk for a healthy person. No reason EVER to do this to kids...but here we are, with these jabs approved and even mandated (CA, I'm looking at you, though you may not be alone) for children who were never at risk. Common sense says we don't ever do this, and we sure as heck don't do anything like this without long term data. The vaccine did not prevent transmission nor contraction, as everyone knew and as Dr. Walensky finally admitted publicly over a year ago. Not early, not late. People who got that vaccine during the early strains often got covid again. And then again if they took Paxlovid.

No one in the "most transparent" administration admitted to any of this or rushed to present the actual data as it did come out, stopping this mess. That was on those who read the studies ourselves and those independent journalists who reported them early, often losing their jobs and being deplatformed to do it.

Even a non-MD knows that viruses evolve and weaken. But the pressure to comply, comply, comply regardless did not.

We all know weather changes too, so your example doesn't stand up.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't really care what part he did or didn't do. The point is that he has a role in the development - whatever it is - and clearly understands this technology.

Well, I would say the level of involvement does matter with regards to being able to be "the authoritative voice" on the matter.

I would say the level of understanding matters as well.

Both he and McCullough share a trait, which is they have the ability to speak "the lingo" in such a way that it comes across as authoritative to the lay person. ...which is likely why they became so popular.

The same could be true of someone who's a "car guy"....obviously "car guys" can span the spectrum of actual knowledge and expertise. However a mid-level car guy (who happens to be an effective and confident-sounding speaker) could easily convince the lay person that they're a "car genius" by using enough of the lingo.

 

[DaisyDay]

Even a non-MD knows that viruses evolve and weaken.

Sometimes. Other times viruses evolve and become more virulent and deadly.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Sometimes. Other times viruses evolve and become more virulent and deadly.

And to expand on at, not all viruses (when they do weaken) weaken at the same pace.

People who want to insist that "they knew all along that covid would become so much less lethal in such a short amount of time" are having short term memory problems, and/or misunderstanding the theory they're citing when they espouse it.

The fact that we have a mutation that's less virulent than some of the others hardly establishes a pattern just yet. 2 years is hardly enough to establish a solid trajectory. They're forgetting that after the original strain, there were two major strains (in the form of Alpha and Delta) that actually increased in transmission and severity back to back before the Omicron strain popped up.

With regards to the "law of declining virulence" that theorized the pattern of viruses becoming more transmissible (but less lethal) over time isn't the support for their argument that they think it is.

A) The data being observed for that was monitoring a population of invasive European rabbits that they intentionally gave a virus to in order to try to thin out the population of those particular animals. And the reduction in lethality they observed was it going from 99.8% lethality, down to 75-90% lethality over a period of multiple decades (not 18 months).

B) While it followed a consistent declining lethality pattern for those decades (unlike covid which has only been around for 2-3 years, and actually got worse twice before it got a little better), the virus they used for that observation (myxoma virus), has actually ticked up again in terms of lethality some 50-something years later.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Well, I would say the level of involvement does matter with regards to being able to be "the authoritative voice" on the matter.

I would say the level of understanding matters as well.

Both he and McCullough share a trait, which is they have the ability to speak "the lingo" in such a way that it comes across as authoritative to the lay person. ...which is likely why they became so popular.

The same could be true of someone who's a "car guy"....obviously "car guys" can span the spectrum of actual knowledge and expertise. However a mid-level car guy (who happens to be an effective and confident-sounding speaker) could easily convince the lay person that they're a "car genius" by using enough of the lingo.

So your assertion is that he does NOT know enough to speak on the matter? Source?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So your assertion is that he does NOT know enough to speak on the matter? Source?

He can speak on the matter, the whole premise of my thread was that those 2 never should've been kicked off of twitter and should've maintained the right to espouse their viewpoints without fear of retribution...as well as that their critique of vaccinations and proposal for other drug repurposing and strategies shouldn't be dismissed the same way Alex Jones's theories were.

However, simply because one is in a field, it doesn't make them the "final go-to" for a particular topic (nor does it instantly give their opinion enough weight to cancel out the opinion of 100's of others of their peers) simply because they happen to be singing your own tune.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Not true. There were several areas that did NOT recognize exemptions (illegally):

"Guards, janitors, administrators and other California corrections personnel who don’t provide health care services directly but who may be exposed to the coronavirus will now be required to get vaccinated under a new state public health order released this week.


The public health order issued Thursday builds upon an earlier order requiring that an estimated 2.2 million healthcare workers in California, whether private or public employees, be fully vaccinated by the end of September. Workers cannot opt out by agreeing to weekly testing."

Some California prison workers now required to get vaccinated against COVID-19

Guards, janitors, administrators and other California corrections personnel who don’t provide health care services directly but who may be exposed to the coronavirus will now be required to g…

ktla.com

coercion is the method satan uses

 

[Pommer]

coercion is the method satan uses

What happens to souls not saved by Jesus?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

coercion is the method satan uses

No argument there.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

He can speak on the matter, the whole premise of my thread was that those 2 never should've been kicked off of twitter and should've maintained the right to espouse their viewpoints without fear of retribution...as well as that their critique of vaccinations and proposal for other drug repurposing and strategies shouldn't be dismissed the same way Alex Jones's theories were.

However, simply because one is in a field, it doesn't make them the "final go-to" for a particular topic (nor does it instantly give their opinion enough weight to cancel out the opinion of 100's of others of their peers) simply because they happen to be singing your own tune.

Ok, well then we agree. An open discussion of various experts in science and medicine would have been the appropriate - and scientific - method. Instead, this Administration engaged in suppression of disfavored views (violating the First Amendment) directly telling Twitter (and other outlets) to silence disparate views from the official narrative (all per Twitter files, with documents).

All that did was stoke legitimate and justifiable mistrust. It's the worst thing one could possibly do, and all of those people in agencies who engaged need to be removed for failing to uphold their oaths they took to serve in government. This must never happen again.

Under Government Pressure, Twitter Suppressed Truthful Speech About COVID-19

Twitter's ban on "COVID-19 misinformation," which Elon Musk rescinded after taking over the platform in late October, mirrored the Biden…

reason.com

 

[Larniavc]

people are smart enough to deicide for themselves

Simply untrue. You've only got look at the anti science crowd to see that.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Simply untrue. You've only got look at the anti science crowd to see that.

The anti-science crowd treated ALL humans as exactly alike and made zero rational distinctions in terms of recovery and natural immunity, age of person, health conditions, or any other relevant factor.

 

[sandman]

Simply untrue. You've only got look at the anti science crowd to see that.

Were you a fact checker on FakeBook???

Probably not…. because you would have used the term “partially untrue”

I know it’s partially untrue because…. I am not anti-science…. that alone defeats you statement . Science has its place…. but as my brother (who is a scientist) stated… science is always in flux… what may be a fact today could change tomorrow. And the things we are learning today about the vaccines makes that abundantly clear.

 

[Larniavc]

The anti-science crowd treated ALL humans as exactly alike and made zero rational distinctions in terms of recovery and natural immunity, age of person, health conditions, or any other relevant factor.

If you mean made a vaccine that would work for everyone then yes. What could possibly be wrong with that?

 

[Larniavc]

Were you a fact checker on FakeBook???

Probably not…. because you would have used the term “partially untrue”

I know it’s partially untrue because…. I am not anti-science…. that alone defeats you statement . Science has its place…. but as my brother (who is a scientist) stated… science is always in flux… what may be a fact today could change tomorrow. And the things we are learning today about the vaccines makes that abundantly clear.

What exactly HAVE we learnt about vaccines up to this point that gives you cause for concern? All I see on this sub fora is a lot of conspiratorial hysteria.

Science is always tentative and that is it’s strength.

I’m not on Face Book. It’s a silly place.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

If you mean made a vaccine that would work for everyone then yes. What could possibly be wrong with that?

People given an actual vaccine (with long term data, tested over years and decades) that works don't repeatedly get the disease. No actual vaccine requires repeated boosters in a year or two. It just doesn't work that way, and rational people know this.

Not to mention it was never, ever needed for children or young people at all. But there was product to be moved and money to be made.