Dr. Hobart Mowrer / the philosophy of atheism

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Elioenai26

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Orval Hobart Mowrer, atheistic psychologist and professor of Johns Hopkins University, one time professor at Harvard, one time professor at Yale, one time President of the American Psychologist Association, who before he killed himself at the age of 75, wrote in an article, "Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils":

"For several decades we psychologists have looked upon the whole matter of sin and moral accountability as a great incubus and we have acclaimed our freedom from it as epic making. But at length we have discovered to be free in this sense to have the excuse of being sick rather than being sinful is to also court the danger of becoming lost. In becoming amoral, ethically neutral and free, we have cut the very roots of our being, lost our deepest sense of selfhood and identity. And with neurotics themselves, asking, "Who am I? What is my deepest destiny? And what does living really mean?" (“Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils,” American Psychologist, 15 (1960): 301-304)

Anna Russell portrayed this sentiment in her “Psychiatric Folksong”:
At three I had a feeling of
Ambivalence toward my brothers
And so it follows naturally
That I poisoned all my lovers.
But now I’m happy; I have learned
The lesson this has taught,
That everything I do that’s wrong
Is someone else’s fault.


This is remarkable insight into the philosophy and ideology of postmodern thought which seeks to convince us that there are no absoulutes and that there are no longer vices that should be called "sins". It is the insight into a philosophy that is wooing a culture into believing that the perpetrator is actually the victim and the victim is the perpetrator. It is the complete and total reversal of all that has been taken as self-evident for thousands of years regarding morality and it's implications on the human race.

No where is this more clearly seen than in the morally relativistic landscape that is becoming increasingly pervasive throughout western culture whose impetus is a godless, meaningless, purposeless existence built upon the unsubstantiated, baseless, groundless theories of a few who have taken it upon themselves to "redefine" what it means to be human.​

 
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Tinker Grey

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Atheism has no philosophy. It is merely the lack of belief in deities. Period.

Post Modernism =/= atheism.

An atheist may have a philosophy. Many atheists may have many different philosophies. Not one of them is inherent to the atheist.

Nothing in the OP has anything to do with atheism.
 
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Elioenai26

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Atheism has no philosophy. It is merely the lack of belief in deities. Period.

Post Modernism =/= atheism.

An atheist may have a philosophy. Many atheists may have many different philosophies. Not one of them is inherent to the atheist.

Nothing in the OP has anything to do with atheism.

I'm afraid it has everything to do with atheism and it's logical ramifications. If you say that it does'nt, that is your opinion. However, a good argument can be made for maintaining that atheism is a way of looking at the world, albeit, however varied and discordant individual views within it's overarching framework may be.

In fact sir, one thing you fail to understand is that since atheism is itself so broad a category, she has a very great many children who use her to get what they want from her. Kind of like spoiled children who continually use their mother as their authenticating and self-approving mainstay.
 
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Tinker Grey

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As I noted, an atheist can have a world view or philosophy.

Eudaimonist (Mark) is a eudaimonist. You can be a Christian and yet be a Eudaimonist, I think. But not all atheists are Eudaimonists.

Atheism, as you have been told many times, is simply a lack of belief in gods. It entails nothing.

To indicate that someone is an atheist doesn't say anything about their philosophy or world view. All it indicates is that the person lacks belief in gods. Where that individual goes from there is as unique as the individual.

In fact, your statement about what you claim I don't understand, "atheism is itself so broad a category", is exactly the reason why the OP has nothing to do with atheism.
 
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Skavau

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I'm afraid it has everything to do with atheism and it's logical ramifications. If you say that it does'nt, that is your opinion. However, a good argument can be made for maintaining that atheism is a way of looking at the world, albeit, however varied and discordant individual views within it's overarching framework may be.

In fact sir, one thing you fail to understand is that since atheism is itself so broad a category, she has a very great many children who use her to get what they want from her. Kind of like spoiled children who continually use their mother as their authenticating and self-approving mainstay.
What are you babbling about? Atheists are "spoiled children" (you do like to keep trudging out insults, don't you?) who like to use it (atheism) to get their self-approval?

What are you talking about, sir? I have never, ever once used atheism ever to attempt to justify any of my moral, political or metaphysical perspectives.

Stop smearing everyone.
 
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Eudaimonist

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What nonsense. Is this the old attempt to smear atheists with postmodernistic nihilism? Take it to the postmodernistic nihilists. This is just as bad as trying to smear atheists with communism (hint: I'm a laissez-faire capitalist).

Plenty of atheists, such as myself, are neither philosophically postmodernists nor nihilists. I personally subscribe to a form of virtue ethics, and am certainly not "free" of issues such as asking for the meaning of life and seeking one's personal destiny.

It may be convenient to lump atheists together for criticism, but they are just as diverse as theists are philosophically. "Atheism" is no more a philosophy than "theism" is.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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quatona

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Orval Hobart Mowrer, atheistic psychologist and professor of Johns Hopkins University, one time professor at Harvard, one time professor at Yale, one time President of the American Psychologist Association, who before he killed himself at the age of 75, wrote in an article, "Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils":

"For several decades we psychologists have looked upon the whole matter of sin and moral accountability as a great incubus and we have acclaimed our freedom from it as epic making. But at length we have discovered to be free in this sense to have the excuse of being sick rather than being sinful is to also court the danger of becoming lost. In becoming amoral, ethically neutral and free, we have cut the very roots of our being, lost our deepest sense of selfhood and identity. And with neurotics themselves, asking, "Who am I? What is my deepest destiny? And what does living really mean?" (“Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils,” American Psychologist, 15 (1960): 301-304)
Not being a psychologist myself I don´t feel I am included in this statement about "we psychologists", particularly since his description "amoral, ethically neutral" isn´t fitting me at all.
I guess I better leave it to psychologists to address the reproaches made towards them.

Anyway: To me, the assumption that the theological concept "sin" is a prerequisite for the concept of "moral accountability" (which is implicitly being at the core of his reasoning) is baseless. Au contraire, simply justifying your morality by reference to an allegedly existing higher authority that allegedly sides with you is anything but "taking accountability" for your morality.
 
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Paradoxum

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This is remarkable insight into the philosophy and ideology of postmodern thought which seeks to convince us that there are no absoulutes and that there are no longer vices that should be called "sins".

What has this got to do with atheism? I see how someone might think that in the gap left by the death of God there is no objective morality, but I think that is false.

It is the insight into a philosophy that is wooing a culture into believing that the perpetrator is actually the victim and the victim is the perpetrator.

I have no idea who believes the victim is the perpetrator, but perhaps we should have a more realistic view on the criminal.

It is the complete and total reversal of all that has been taken as self-evident for thousands of years regarding morality and it's implications on the human race.

Some obvious things are false, such as the Sun going round the Earth.

No where is this more clearly seen than in the morally relativistic landscape that is becoming increasingly pervasive throughout western culture whose impetus is a godless, meaningless, purposeless existence built upon the unsubstantiated, baseless, groundless theories of a few who have taken it upon themselves to "redefine" what it means to be human.

I don't think must be meaningless without God.
 
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Elioenai26

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Atheism, as you have been told many times, is simply a lack of belief in gods. It entails nothing.

You are patently wrong here sir.

Atheism entails everything that is a ramification of not believing in God.

The desacrilization of human life, the meaning, purpose, and destiny of humanity is all adversely affected by the logical outworkings and ramifications of a godless worldview.

Just because you say that atheism entails nothing does not mean that it does'nt.

To indicate that someone is an atheist doesn't say anything about their philosophy or world view. All it indicates is that the person lacks belief in gods. Where that individual goes from there is as unique as the individual.

It says everything about a person's worldview. For from the issue of God's existence or non-existence flow the most meaningful and indispensible questions of life. Every important aspect of a person's life is affected by their affirmation or denial of God.

I am surprised that you do not know this.

In fact, your statement about what you claim I don't understand, "atheism is itself so broad a category", is exactly the reason why the OP has nothing to do with atheism.

It has everything to do with atheism because Dr. Mowrer understood what the logical ramifications of a godless worldview entailed.

In fact, it was unsuccessful attempts at dealing with depression which were fostered by his own view that to endure and overcome such depression would ultimately be an exercise in futility that was no doubt a factor in him committing suicide.
 
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Elioenai26

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I don't think must be meaningless without God.

If you do not think that life is meaningless without God, then any meaning you assign to life is only illusory Paradoxum, it is not real and is not based or founded in reality, for reality is that the universe is an accident brought about by blind random forces with no design, no purpose, no intent, no ultimate meaning, no concern.

Ask Nietzsche, ask Russell, ask Dawkins, what life is, I am sure they will tell you that it ultimately is meaningless and nothingness on the atheistic worldview.

Now, you can pretend that life is meaningful if that helps you cope with life, this is what atheists do, but pretending that life is meaningful does not make it so.

So at best, on the atheistic view, life can be meaningful only insofar as we give it our own meaning which is completely subjective.
 
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Skavau

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Elioenai26 said:
Atheism entails everything that is a ramification of not believing in God.

The desacrilization of human life, the meaning, purpose, and destiny of humanity is all adversely affected by the logical outworkings and ramifications of a godless worldview.
No.

Atheism means to not believe in a God.

Sorry you don't get that.

Just because you say that atheism entails nothing does not mean that it does'nt.
It means only one thing to me. Perhaps more to others. You sir, do not get to decide what things mean to me.

It says everything about a person's worldview. For from the issue of God's existence or non-existence flow the most meaningful and indispensible questions of life. Every important aspect of a person's life is affected by their affirmation or denial of God.
No it doesn't.

It only tells someone that they do not believe in God. Every atheist will have completely different viewpoints on a multitude of topics. That some atheists are nihilistic does not mean all are.
 
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Elioenai26

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What are you babbling about? Atheists are "spoiled children" (you do like to keep trudging out insults, don't you?) who like to use it (atheism) to get their self-approval?

What are you talking about, sir? I have never, ever once used atheism ever to attempt to justify any of my moral, political or metaphysical perspectives.

Stop smearing everyone.

I gather you do not know what an allegory is.
 
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quatona

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If you do not think that life is meaningless without God, then any meaning you assign to life is only illusory Paradoxum, it is not real and is not based or founded in reality, for reality is that the universe is an accident brought about by blind random forces with no design, no purpose, no intent, no ultimate meaning, no concern.
Purpose, intent, meaning, concern can only be "illusory" in this scenario if you add a silent "God given" to them. Other than that purposes, intents, meanings and concerns are fully intact.

Ask Nietzsche, ask Russell, ask Dawkins, what life is, I am sure they will tell you that it ultimately is meaningless and nothingness on the atheistic worldview.
I wasn´t aware that they are your heros. They aren´t mine, though.

Now, you can pretend that life is meaningful if that helps you cope with life, this is what atheists do, but pretending that life is meaningful does not make it so.
If something has meaning to someone, it´s meaningful. I don´t demand any more than that when it comes to meaning. If that´s a problem for you - so be it.
If only an externally given meaning counts as meaning to you you will run into a meaningless existence sooner or later, anyway. At latest when it comes to God. His existence would be meaningless by your standards. So what is good enough for Gods should be good enough for us.

So at best, on the atheistic view, life can be meaningful only insofar as we give it our own meaning which is completely subjective.
Exactly, and there is a more than subtle difference between "illusory" and "subjective".
 
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Elioenai26

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Go on.

We're on the edge of our seats.

And you, and ToddNotTodd, and quatona, and everyone else who has been posting here for the past several weeks who are atheists. That is why I thank you gentlemen so very much for helping me to understand what atheism is and how people who are atheists think, feel, and look at things. Very beneficial for me.

:congrat:
 
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Skavau

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And you, and ToddNotTodd, and quatona, and everyone else who has been posting here for the past several weeks who are atheists. That is why I thank you gentlemen so very much for helping me to understand what atheism is and how people who are atheists think, feel, and look at things. Very beneficial for me.

:congrat:
We speak for ourselves, not atheists.

But do tell what you think from us that all atheists are like. You can't leave us guessing.
 
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And you, and ToddNotTodd, and quatona, and everyone else who has been posting here for the past several weeks who are atheists. That is why I thank you gentlemen so very much for helping me to understand what atheism is and how people who are atheists think, feel, and look at things. Very beneficial for me.

Let's have it all out here and now, "apologist" - what exactly do you think you have learned?
 
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