• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Doubting Thomas and Lord Jesus’ Future Betrayal- Lessons Perhaps?

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by newton3005, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. newton3005

    newton3005 Member

    United States
    In John 20:24-29, Jesus’ disciples explain to Thomas that they have seen the Lord after he rose from the dead. This passage makes clear that Thomas wasn’t with them when Jesus appeared, and it follows that Thomas says to them in Verse 25, ““Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”

    Jesus then appears, and he lets Thomas do the things that Thomas mentions. In Verse 28 Thomas, upon being convinced, says “My Lord and my God!” Jesus in Verse 29 says, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” In a way, it’s a rebuke to Thomas, who thinks that seeing is believing.

    The foundation of our faith through Jesus is to believe what doesn’t actually register with at least one of our five senses. None of us has seen God, but we have faith that He exists, and we believe accordingly. And as faith is a form of trust, Jesus implies that those who trust, without seeing, in the existence of God and believing in Him through Jesus would be favored over the doubting Thomas’ of the world.

    Later, in John 21, Jesus is resurrected a third time and appears to his disciples again. Verse 23 is a curious verse because here, Peter asks Jesus, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” It’s curious from several standpoints. First, Jesus was already betrayed, and that betrayal led to his crucifixion. Second, what betrayal was Peter thinking of? I mean at this point it doesn’t matter who may have it in for Jesus since he has been resurrected at this point. That is, no one can hurt him now; as if hurting him was ever a possibility!

    One possible interpretation is that Peter may be referring to those who follow Jesus. That is, ‘Who is going to betray your followers’ and thereby lead to their persecution? Jesus in Verse 22 effectively says it doesn’t matter, because there will always be those remaining who follow him to the end of the age. To that point, doesn’t Jesus in one of the last passages of Matthew’s Gospel say in Matthew 28:19-20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, TO THE END OF THE AGE”?
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. danielmears

    danielmears Active Member Supporter

    United States
    In the KJV, the end of verse 21:20 is, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? 21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus responded, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. So, it seems Peter was wondering what was to become of the betrayer and Jesus told him don't worry about it, paraphrased. This makes sense since we are told to love regardless of circumstance..
  3. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Thomas' issue was UNBELIEF not doubt, as the text says.

    It appears to me you are reading some things INTO the text that aren't there. Jesus made a special appearance a 2nd time BECAUSE Thomas was there, to help him in his unbelief. As soon as He says, "Peace be with you," He immediately speaks to Thomas, SO THAT Thomas can indeed touch the nail prints in His hands & the spear thrust in his side, to help him in his unbelief.

    I say unbelief not doubt because that is what Jesus called it & the actual rebuke of Jesus is stated in the text:

    John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here & examine My hands. Extend your hand & put it into My side. Do NOT CONTINUE in your unbelief (Greek, 'apistos'), but believe ('pistos')."

    'Apistos' is belief with the Greek negative prefix, 'a' to show it isn't doubt here but actual 'not' belief or unbelief.

    And we aren't 'favored' over Thomas, as Scripture repeatedly affirms. Jesus NEEDED Thomas to be one of the 12 EYEWITNESSES of His resurrection & one of those who was with Him from the beginning. They were to be actual eyewitnesses, to proclaim belief that He had risen out from among the dead & conquered the bondage of death.

    So when Thomas stopped unbelieving & believed, he could then be a believing eyewitness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, as one of the 12.

    Luke 24:45-48 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures & said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer & ON THE THIRD DAY RISE FROM THE DEAD & that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are WITNESSES of these things.

    John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because you have been with me FROM THE BEGINNING.

    Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you & you shall be WITNESSES UNTO ME...

    Acts 1:21,22 So one of the men who have accompanied us DURING ALL THE TIME that the Lord Jesus went in & out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when He was taken up from us—one of these men MUST BECOME WITH US A WITNESS TO HIS RESURRECTION.”

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus has God raised up, whereof WE ARE ALL WITNESSES.

    Acts 3:15 You killed the Author of life, but God raised Him from the dead & WE ARE WITNESSES OF THE FACT.

    Acts 4:33 With great power, THE APOSTLES continued to give their testimony about THE RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS.

    Acts 5:32 WE ARE WITNESSES OF THESE THINGS & so is the HOLY SPIRIT, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

    Acts 10:39,41 We are WITNESSES of all that He did...not by ALL the people, but by THE WITNESSES GOD HAD CHOSEN BEFOREHAND, by us who ate & drank with Him after He ROSE FROM THE DEAD.

    His testimony was needed at that time in the spread of the gospel & Christianity. And yes, we are blessed because we didn't see visible proof of His resurrection but believe it is true, even though we didn't actually see it but BECAUSE OF THE WITNESS of those who actually did see it, that is recorded for our benefit.

    Though we are not 'eyewitnesses' of the resurrection, yet we are blessed witnesses BY FAITH unseen, due to the FAITHFUL WITNESS of the eyewitnesses recorded in the Scriptures as testifying to the truth of Christ's resurrection on the third day after His one time death for all time.

    Another point of correction needs to be made here also. Jesus did NOT resurrect a third time. He did not go back to the dead three times & rise again three times out from among the dead: He rose ONCE from the dead. That is what Scripture & prophecy repeats in various places. This is what God said would happen thousands of years before it actually happened ONCE AND ON THE THIRD DAY AFTER HE HAD DIED.

    Jesus did not die three times & resurrect three times. Jesus did die once & on the third day after that He rose ON THE THIRD DAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE. That IS our gospel message as Christians.

    I Cor 14:3-5 For I delivered to you as of FIRST IMPORTANCE what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that HE WAS RAISED ON THE THIRD DAY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCRIPTURES & that He appeared to Cephas, then to THE TWELVE...

    Luke 24:45,45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures & said to them, “Thus it is WRITTEN, that the Christ should suffer & ON THE THIRD DAY RISE FROM THE DEAD...

    It appears you may be trying to go from memory on your above mistaken idea of two betrayals. Here is the actual text, that shows Jesus was simply referring back to the one betrayal of Judas Iscariot & that the Apostle John had asked Him DURING THE SUPPER, who was going to betray Him.

    What Peter actually asked Jesus was about the Apostle John, standing beside them. Please read again the whole context of John 21.

    John 21:20-23 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” 21When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!”
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019