Don't worry about it, guys -- I'm gone

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John1and1

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The crux of your issue seems to be your desire to make your point.


Refusal to acknowledge her (or her church's) perspective on her ordination and seeing as how she does hold an office of ministry in her church, is indeed an attack on that ministry.


Her perspective was acknowledged. And we asked for scripture to back her perspective.

Surely you dont suggest that acknowledging a perspective does not negate our responsibility to ask what scriptures her perspectives are based on?


Is her perspective for some reason above public critique if placed publicly in a conservative forum? I dont understand your point here could you clarify this for me?
 
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Hishandmaiden

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Having a female pastor in your midst seems to be upsetting what was supposed to be a peaceful forum for you, so I will bow out.

For those of you who have been kind, whether or not you believed in my calling, thank you for your respect. I appreciate being treated as a sister in Christ.

For those of you who have been rude, belittling, and accused me of ungodly motivations -- I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine. Insulting me isn't going to help.

At the end of the day, all I can do is go by what I know the Lord is telling me. And a small minority of posters here has made it so that my energy is going into a useless debate rather than the ministry I'm called to do. It's a shame, because I came here for fellowship, and the majority of you were ready to fellowship with me. But the minority is louder and more hurtful.

Anyone who sincerely wants to be in conversation with me may PM me.

I wish you the best in your new forum.

:wave:
Sister, I believe that God prefers to use a man to pastor a church rather than a woman. But if you are my pastor, and God calls you to the task, I will respect you for what He had called you to do and not be surprised that He had called you.

I know sometimes, God does use women to be a pastor, like He uses Deborah in judges, I just think He tends to prefer to use men.
 
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Hishandmaiden

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No one attacked her 'ministry'

She saw fit to post in a conservative forum, that upholds conservative tradition and scripture. The thread concerned women pastoring a church and she was pressed to give scripture declaring her position.

Asking for scripture to prove a point of doctrine certainly does not constitute 'attacking her ministry'.

If one supports a doctrine not supported by scripture, and yet chooses to act as though its a personal attack to ask for scripture in a discussion, then i would say we need to grow a bit thicker skin. If it is a matter of personal offence on the other hand, just because people take scripture literally in a conservative forum, i would say the offence isnt coming from the poster, but rather the gospel, given the fact your ministry was not personally attacked by any poster. If you disagree, paste this attack against your ministry please.

Threads like this seem to be more of a special pleading or an emotional thing in an effort to cause people to compromise their doctrine, if we cant ask one to be accountable enough to provide a passage of scripture.
We can disagree with her position, but part of the scripture is also to show grace and love to all believers. In speaking the truth, we must speak in love.

We don't water down on our positions, but we accept that none of us is perfect, and that we love each other and speak of truth with grace and patience and love, as what Christ does often with us.

This is a hard balance, but it is something we must learn to do. When speaking truth, we are not speaking it to correct errors, we are speaking it also out of love. The tone in which we use, the attitudes through which we speak it, matter.

Truth must always be spoken with love for the other person.

(This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, brother, or to offend you. )
 
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J

John1and1

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We can disagree with her position, but part of the scripture is also to show grace and love to all believers. In speaking the truth, we must speak in love.

We don't water down on our positions, but we accept that none of us is perfect, and that we love each other and speak of truth with grace and patience and love, as what Christ does often with us.

This is a hard balance, but it is something we must learn to do. When speaking truth, we are not speaking it to correct errors, we are speaking it also out of love. The tone in which we use, the attitudes through which we speak it, matter.

Truth must always be spoken with love for the other person.

(This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, brother, or to offend you. )

I dont take your post at all as a personal attack thank you, it is a good reminder

I completely agree, and she was not spoken to in any hateful derrogitory way, but 3 from her side of the issue certainly were personally attacking 3 from my side of the issue and i can post the quotes.

No one spoke to her out of love in asking for a scripture, that was a straight up request. and when i simply asked not to be directed to her blog, but please give a scripture to back your position,he decided to take this as a personal attack and then started this thread FALSELY stating we had attacked her ministry. If you note, no quote of any attack on her ministry can be posted here.

Whats this show you?
 
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Macrina

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Thank you everybody who PMed me or sent rep messages and told me you were supporting me in this thread. I do sincerely appreciate it. From some of the comments I've gotten privately, I think perhaps my reasons weren't clear, so I'll make another post to try and explain:

This isn't about whether or not people will accept my ministry without question. It's not even that people have insulted me personally, per se. Those things have never made me doubt my calling and they have long since ceased to "hurt my feelings" the way an insult normally would. This goes to a couple of other, and deeper, issues:

For one thing, fending off accusations takes a great deal of energy, no matter how unfounded the accusations are. That energy, and the time it takes to respond, might better be put towards other purposes. Some time back, I thought collecting my posts in a sort of "FAQ" might be helpful, but that has proven a failure. Besides, this is far from the only issue that people get heated up about, and I can't possibly do that much writing for every one of them.

Secondly, there is the matter of what is "conservative." It has been said that there is only one acceptable conservative position on women's ordination, and those of us who hold a different position should not be allowed to discuss our views on this board. If it were just this one issue, I could probably live with it -- but what happens the next time I don't toe the "party line" that someone thinks every conservative should? Can any dissent be shut down simply by saying "that's not the conservative position, and you have no right to present it here?" My feeling is that if a conservative Christian posts a thread asking other conservative Christians for their opinions, then any conservative Christian should be able to participate in a discussion about the meaning of scripture. If in such a circumstance, I can be accused of bringing liberal attacks merely by asking for a little civility, then what's to prevent people from demanding rigid adherence to particular doctrine in other matters? That thread would have been awfully flavorless if the only people allowed to post were those who were against female pastors. Silencing the opposition might make some people happy, but it's not a realistic approach when conservatives have different interpretations of scripture. So, if I am only allowed to voice those opinions which meet with the approval of certain fundamentalist members who think they can decide what the party line is, then how can I know what topics I can post on? Are we to exclude theistic evolutionists, for example? People who like to have rock music in church? Women who braid their hair? Who gets to draw the line and demand what is and is not an essential conservative position, and what is up for discussion? At some point, the party line has got to stop if you want to have real discussion, even amongst people who all identify as conservatives. We are not all going to be identical.

Finally, and most importantly, it's about the mean-spiritedness that has been allowed on this forum. No Christian community should cannibalize itself like this. Unfortunately, conservatives all too easily fall into the trap of "my way or the highway," because we are assured that we have God on our side. But no matter how right we think we are, it never, ever excuses us from the requirement to extend grace to each other. It grieves me that the people who claim to adhere most to scriptural principles are the ones with the worst reputation for hate-mongering and condemnation. I hoped that having this forum, as separate from the fundamentalist forum, would allow for a variety of conservatives to co-exist in a community. But if such ugly attitudes are permitted to flourish here, there cannot be true community.

It grieves me when I see this on any issue -- creation/evolution in Origins Theology, Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox in General Theology, etc -- so it's not just this one. If it were commonly understood that conservative Christians could, in good faith, differ on biblical interpretation, that would be a different matter. If we could speak Christ to each other in our conversations, I would treasure it. But insults and demands that everyone who wants to discuss must conform to one perspective or else they don't belong in the conversation? I don't see the grace in that.

I'm taking a break from posting on CF for awhile, because it seems like the entire forum is filled with far too much hate. If when I come back there is grace extended within this forum, I would still like to have a "congregational" home. If there is acceptance that there is more than one "conservative" view on some matters, and a refusal to stand for mean-spirited posts, then I might try again. But hopefully this has helped clarify why this does not feel like a welcoming place for me right now.

I will be unsubscribing (again) from this thread, so if you would like to reply, please do so via PM. Again, I appreciate the encouragement and friendship; I hope that someday this will be a grace-filled forum where we can talk together in peace.
 
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John1and1

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I would say this is more about the fact you clicked into a thread, knowing this is a conservative board, dealing with the question 'should a woman pastor a church?' If you are unaware of the conservative viewpoint regarding this, i certainly dont see how it is the fault of the conservative posters. I do however, believe you know the conservative stance.

You were not 'insulted' nor was your 'ministry attacked'. You were asked for scripture, but rather than posting scrpture for your stand you referred me to a blog. I AGAIN asked for scripture, and you left in a huff, and came here posting to everyone accusing people of attacking' your ministry'

THAT was the accusation and it is completely wrong. Asking you to present scripture backing your stance is in no wise 'attacking' anything, unless you believe you are beyond question and we should simply accept your doctrine no matter if there is scripture to back it or not.

I clearly do not understand your points here.
 
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Macrina

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I would say this is more about the fact you clicked into a thread, knowing this is a conservative board, dealing with the question 'should a woman pastor a church?' If you are unaware of the conservative viewpoint regarding this, i certainly dont see how it is the fault of the conservative posters. I do however, believe you know the conservative stance.

You were not 'insulted' nor was your 'ministry attacked'. You were asked for scripture, but rather than posting scrpture for your stand you referred me to a blog. I AGAIN asked for scripture, and you left in a huff, and came here posting to everyone accusing people of attacking' your ministry'

THAT was the accusation and it is completely wrong. Asking you to present scripture backing your stance is in no wise 'attacking' anything, unless you believe you are beyond question and we should simply accept your doctrine no matter if there is scripture to back it or not.

I clearly do not understand your points here.

Dude, I attempted to give you a number of scriptures and well-articulated answers to your questions. I attempted to show you how a conservative Christian can hold the opinion that I do. Simply because you did not like how I presented the scriptures doesn't mean that I didn't present them.

I am now unsubscribing and won't be back, so feel free to have the last word.
 
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J

John1and1

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Dude, I attempted to give you a number of scriptures and well-articulated answers to your questions. I attempted to show you how a conservative Christian can hold the opinion that I do. Simply because you did not like how I presented the scriptures doesn't mean that I didn't present them.

I am now unsubscribing and won't be back, so feel free to have the last word.


I am here straightening out the facts of your opening post

Therefore i give you 2 challenges, which i wager go unanswered


1) Go to that thread and copy and paste here the scriptures you used to say a female can postor a church and exercize authority over men

2) Post any personaly attack against 'your ministry'


If you cant do either what is the point of the accusations in this thread?
 
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BelindaP

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I am here straightening out the facts of your opening post

Therefore i give you 2 challenges, which i wager go unanswered


1) Go to that thread and copy and paste here the scriptures you used to say a female can postor a church and exercize authority over men

2) Post any personaly attack against 'your ministry'


If you cant do either what is the point of the accusations in this thread?

You may not see yourself as attacking, but you have single-handedly convinced me, a conservative Christian, to completely avoid this forum as long as you are here. Your posts were nasty, condescending and showed very little Christian charity. The fact that you justify your nastiness with God's word is despicable.

FWIW, I agree with your position, just not your demeanor.
 
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Sothron

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I will be honest, I have not seen anyone "attack" her or her ministry on this forum. Asking for Scripture is not tantamount to a personal attack. Obviously as an Orthodox Christian I do not believe in female ordination but I do not think one disagreement on an issue should drive someone from this forum.

There is no possible way everyone here can agree what "conservative" means in every single facet of religious life.
 
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J

John1and1

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What are you men so threatened about? What is actually bothering you?

And if you were an ordained pastor, would it not bother you to have people question you rudely at a christian forum where you were active?



What threatens me? Nothing but disobedience to God


What is bothering me?
That people claiming to believe God, claiming He is important to them, seem to put personal pride over their perported love, so that not only do they not esteem His word over their own 'feelings', but that they also see fit to say asking for a passage of scripture is a personal attack, and conservatives, posting in a conservative forum are ridiculed because they believe God and take Him at His word.

But actually i dont even let that bother me much. I will just shoot it down as it comes and do it with scripture, not personal justification
 
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Sothron

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What are you men so threatened about? What is actually bothering you?

And if you were an ordained pastor, would it not bother you to have people question you rudely at a christian forum where you were active?

To be honest if I was a female pastor and I was posting in an interfaith message board I would have to reasonably expect other posters to question about my status since not all faiths believe in female ordination.

I will also submit again that simply asking for a Scripture backing to your rights to be ordained does not merit "rudeness" unless the context calls for it. Simply asking does not.
 
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ReformedChapin

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Being a reformed Christian I know that most of them hold a complimenterian view of scripture while I hold an egalitarian view. I'm glad to see we have sisters out there doing God's work. I really hope that you don't leave. I hope that your complimenterian brothers and sisters open minds to preaching the Gosple rather than legalism. :prayer:
 
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