Don't touch my junk: TSA officers hear complaints

Billnew

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Don't touch my junk: TSA officers hear complaints - CenturyLink™

The big protest is tomorrow. OPt out.
Security will adjust and people will get through. The number of people getting picked to face extended searches will be less, so the lines don't get backed up.

I fully support making the gropers feel the worst you can make them feel, but do not threaten them. They are doing what our misguided goverment
is forcing them to do.

Welcome to the airport, would you like to have nudy pictures(the image is your naked body in negitive form) taken and possibly disposed of properly or would you like to be groped by our security staff.

If this is not to far, then what would be to far? If they can picture you nude, and or put their hands on every part of your body without you being suspected of a crime, what would be to far?
The only thing more belittling would be body cavity searches, and some seem to consider this an inconvience. It would take to long, slow things down.

So make the gropers feel dirty, make comments to make them hate thier job, opt out if they want to take the nude picture, and make them get hands on.
I ask again, If this isn't to far, then what would be too far?
 

Billnew

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If I had a toddler or child, and they are chosen, I would say extremely loud,
"Remember when I told you no one should touch you in your private areas? This person works for the goverment and he gets to touch you any where he/she chooses, or we don't get to go on vacation."

Cause there is no way I would let them take a picture of my child naked.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Willtor

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I don't think it's appropriate to be rude to the TSOs. They already hate their jobs since these measures have been taken. Naturally, "I was just following orders," is not an acceptable defense, but these are people who don't need to be convinced that what they are doing is wrong. I'd guess that it's much easier (psychologically) to do bad things to people who are mean than to people who are kind.

We're flying out of Boston today and we're going to opt-out. It's important to be firm about what is morally impermissible, but they may see reason. My step mom and (two-year-old) half sister and her stroller went through security without scan or pat-down (at Logan) when we went to Greece in June. They didn't even give the stroller a second look, so they all know this is theater. But we aren't going to be rude about it.

A soft answer turns away wrath
But a harsh word stirs up anger
-- Proverbs 15:1
 
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Supreme

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I think it's disgusting the public treat the TSA with such contempt. If you don't want to have a split second naked image taken of yourself, don't fly. Everyone always wants better security, but if it involves something as minor as this, they complain. You can't have it both ways!
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I think it's disgusting the public treat the TSA with such contempt. If you don't want to have a split second naked image taken of yourself, don't fly. Everyone always wants better security, but if it involves something as minor as this, they complain. You can't have it both ways!

:preach:

I have relatives flying tomorrow and they are prepared to make a fuss louder than the ones who "opt out" if it in any way delays getting to their plane. They wish they didn't have to travel tomorrow but it was the quickest they could get out.
 
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katherine2001

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I think it's disgusting the public treat the TSA with such contempt. If you don't want to have a split second naked image taken of yourself, don't fly. Everyone always wants better security, but if it involves something as minor as this, they complain. You can't have it both ways!

:thumbsup:! Also, you know very well that if something did get aboard, these same people would complain about how lax the TSA is and blame it all on Obama and how he can't protect us from terrorists! And needless to say, not all terrorists are Muslim or foreign. Timothy McVeigh certainly was neither of these. Caucasian Americans can be terrorists as well, carrying bomb components on themselves. As others have said, if you don't like the security methods, then drive, take a bus or a train to your destination!

More manufactured outrage from the Right! May I ask those of you who are so loudly protesting it, would you be protesting it if it had been happening under the Republican administration? After all, where was all the outrage as our rights were being eroded by the Patriot Act?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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:thumbsup:! Also, you know very well that if something did get aboard, these same people would complain about how lax the TSA is and blame it all on Obama and how he is soft on terrorism.

More manufactured outrage from the Right! May I ask those of you who are so loudly protesting it would protest it if it had been happening under the Republican administration? After all, where was all the outrage as our rights were being eroded by the Patriot Act?

Pssst...look at my political icon.

This pretty much crosses party lines on both sides.
 
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Bubbahotep

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And needless to say, not all terrorists are Muslim or foreign.

Show me a non-musim terrorist that has tried to take a plane out of he air.
May I ask those of you who are so loudly protesting it, would you be protesting it if it had been happening under the Republican administration?

Absolutely. My question, where are all those liberals crying civil rights when you are being forced, forced to hred you're fouth amendmentrights against unreasonable searches just because you bought a ticket and arive at the airport. Once you get nto line for screening, you can't leave. If you try, you'll be detained, possibly charged, searched anyway and fined 11,000$.

This is tyranny, pure and simple. And anyone who thinks this keeps them safe on a plane understands as much about airline security as my dog knows about the engine in my car.

People also seem to be under some misguided notion these won't spread to other things. They're already using them at courthouses in Florida. And guess what, they're keeping the scans.

I may not have the right to fly, but is anyone really going to tell me that I don't have the right to enter a courthouse without being subjected to an unConstitutional search in order to do business with my government?
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Don't touch my junk: TSA officers hear complaints - CenturyLink™

The big protest is tomorrow. OPt out.
Security will adjust and people will get through. The number of people getting picked to face extended searches will be less, so the lines don't get backed up.

I fully support making the gropers feel the worst you can make them feel, but do not threaten them. They are doing what our misguided goverment
is forcing them to do.

Welcome to the airport, would you like to have nudy pictures(the image is your naked body in negitive form) taken and possibly disposed of properly or would you like to be groped by our security staff.

If this is not to far, then what would be to far? If they can picture you nude, and or put their hands on every part of your body without you being suspected of a crime, what would be to far?
The only thing more belittling would be body cavity searches, and some seem to consider this an inconvience. It would take to long, slow things down.

So make the gropers feel dirty, make comments to make them hate thier job, opt out if they want to take the nude picture, and make them get hands on.
I ask again, If this isn't to far, then what would be too far?
I see no big deal about the body scan,I seen what it looks like,It doesn't really show anything bad to me,I might be horrified,if they snicked at the pic,as I'm going thru.But if I was groped I would feel worse,but after 911 I can understand.
 
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Willtor

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I think it's disgusting the public treat the TSA with such contempt. If you don't want to have a split second naked image taken of yourself, don't fly. Everyone always wants better security, but if it involves something as minor as this, they complain. You can't have it both ways!

In the U.S., we generally claim to be pro-liberty. It frequently doesn't work out that way, but that's the myth we have and the image we cultivate of ourselves. So the notion that a "free" society would do this sort of thing to its citizens (many of who feel violated by being photographed nude, or being touched in a way that would be considered sexual aggression by anyone other than a government employee) is destructive to that self-image.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about English culture to know whether there are any related ideas of personal liberty circulating amidst your population. But the idea is a very strong one, here. You've probably seen people quote the Constitution (and its Appendix: the Bill of Rights) as if it were Scripture. And that analogy is not too far off. It is a compelling idea that we were endowed with certain inalienable rights by our Creator, and many people believe it -- at least insofar as it affects them.

The effectiveness of these scanners is tangential, to my mind. They do not, of course, increase security in any way. Numerous security breaches have occurred (e.g., the popular example of Adam Savage accidentally carrying two 12" steel blades through a scanner on his person). So the next terrorist clearly doesn't actually need to carry the bomb in a body cavity to get through security. The TSA would do better to implement effective means of securing air travel.

But that is not the point. Security theater is expensive, yes, and in this case it creates more danger than there was before. And, as you probably know, since 911 all terrorist plots aboard airplanes have been stopped by vigilant citizens, and not one by TSA. But the real issue, here, is the erosion of personal liberties. Why should your (hypothetical) 13-year old daughter have the choice between being photographed nude, or being touched in ways that you would never allow her to be touched by anyone else, or not flying? If you are a modest individual and have the same objections regarding your own body, why should you put up with such a humiliation? If you have no such objections for yourself, do you have empathy for those who do?

As I say, however, I don't know anything about you or your culture or whether such things are valued in your society. But quite a lot of lip service is paid them in the U.S. Further, some of us actually hold these values.
 
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Willtor

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The big Opt Out day seems to have opted out.

I read a bunch of articles saying this. I don't know why they said that. Opt-out day was a huge success. I didn't dare to dream they would open lines to traditional metal-detectors. When we came back, those lines were still there!

I _do_ wish they would implement some real security. I don't approve of the theater. But real security is expensive, and I don't think either party is up to proposing such a bill. Fortunately, as I mentioned in my last post, the flying public has really picked up the ball.
 
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Drekkan85

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I read a bunch of articles saying this. I don't know why they said that. Opt-out day was a huge success. I didn't dare to dream they would open lines to traditional metal-detectors. When we came back, those lines were still there!

I _do_ wish they would implement some real security. I don't approve of the theater. But real security is expensive, and I don't think either party is up to proposing such a bill. Fortunately, as I mentioned in my last post, the flying public has really picked up the ball.

I frequently see this despite NO evidence that this security is ineffectual (and there are news stories where the TSA chief has shown contraband that's been confiscated thanks to the scanners).

Out of curiousity, what would you acknowledge as "real security" and not "security theatre"?
 
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Bubbahotep

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I frequently see this despite NO evidence that this security is ineffectual (and there are news stories where the TSA chief has shown contraband that's been confiscated thanks to the scanners).

And how many terrorists has this stopped so far? So it caught someone with a pocket knife, big deal. Hell, I'd rather have that guy with his knife on my plane so when some terrorist does get by the TSA, someone will be in a position to kill him.

These machines don't detect items in body cavities. And the terrorists found a way around these machines before they were even put into place. The printer toner bombs were put on the plane via international freight, freight that still isn't check to 100% capacity. A few years ago, a man shipped himself to his father's in Texas via air freight. What if he had been some super terrorist?

Whereas dogs and sniffing tech can smell out contraband hidden in body cavities. Airports have been doing it with drugs for decades.

How about a biometric frequent flyer's ID issued by the fed, allowing cleared, non-Muslim frequent flyers to pass through a separate booth with minimal screening?

Maybe some actual profiling that every security on Earth utilizes. Including nationality, behavioral, and ethnic.

How can you expect to be safe on a plane when we won't even admit who the enemy is, instead treating everyone like terrorists and criminals in nothing but security theater.
 
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I frequently see this despite NO evidence that this security is ineffectual (and there are news stories where the TSA chief has shown contraband that's been confiscated thanks to the scanners).

Oh! Don't misunderstand. I know they find lots of stuff. They found lots of stuff with the traditional metal detectors, too. Occasionally they find stuff on me that I didn't know I had! More often, they don't. Whatever. It hasn't stopped a single terrorist from getting through. Ever. The only terrorists who have been stopped in the U.S. have been stopped by other passengers. We are vigilant since 911. _We_ are making our planes secure because the TSA isn't. The problem with the TSA's system is that they are looking in the wrong place for danger. And until they change, they will always be at least a step behind the terrorists.

Although Adam Savage's case is a bit extreme, it will serve as a good example: suppose somebody had actually been doing their job and looking at the scan when he went through it, and had seen the two 12" blades. They would have been taken away. Security, right? Well, Adam Savage wasn't going to hold anybody hostage or blow up a plane. They could claim it as a victory ("look at these two twelve inch blades we confiscated"), but the simple truth is that he isn't a terrorist. So even though they didn't find the blades, it didn't matter in his case. Note: they _would_ have found the blades in a traditional metal detector. Now, the metal detectors wouldn't find the underwear bomber's bomb, but... neither will the new scanners! They aren't designed for that.

Ultimately, detecting peoples' water bottles and nail files isn't security. _I_ discovered a set of nail clippers on Wednesday in my backpack (while I was packing) that I had been taking on flights since I finished grad school! But even if TSA were reliable, it wouldn't be security. We aren't safer because they find contraband on normal people. The reason is that normal people aren't a security risk, with or without the things they have labeled as contraband.

Consider that El Al, the Israeli airline, actually distributes metal knives with its meals. Can you guess how many hijackings they've had in the last half-century? TSA is looking at the wrong things. It is looking at the things common people bring on board the plane. The terrorists know what TSA is looking for, and they will simply bring something else. Or they will acquire what they need in the shops behind security.

The list of dangerous items can grow arbitrarily long. And although TSA may (or may not) confiscate those items from us when they (and we) discover that they are on our persons or in our bags, the terrorists are undeterred. Further, when TSA finally gets around to buying a scanner that will detect a bomb like the underwear bomb, will the next bomb be carried in a body cavity? How will TSA change its methods then?

Out of curiousity, what would you acknowledge as "real security" and not "security theatre"?

This is a good question. And if we really want our government to protect us, it needs to ask this question, too.

I would cite the Israelis as knowing something about airline security. Therefore, it would be advisable to analyze their model. Now, it would be exceedingly expensive to implement the Israeli system in the U.S. (they do background checks on everyone who flies and then a 5-minute interview of each passenger by a trained interviewer). If we really wanted our government to guarantee our security on airlines, we would do it. It's political suicide for the party that proposes it because of the cost, of course. But the Israeli model is much more along the lines of identifying dangerous people than creating an ever-growing list of dangerous items. Perhaps there is something we could do that adheres more to that model than the list of contraband.

At any rate, the Israelis say the TSA's current model give passengers the illusion of security without giving us real security. But you know this from personal experience if you've ever flown. You discover something in your bag or on your person that they missed. You have seen the security procedures applied inconsistently when lines get long (and they get long every day of the year in every major airport in the country). Real security does not come by seeing what the terrorists do and then patching that hole and waiting for them to make the next move. There is an endless sea of holes when you look at security in that way. No! You look at the people. You profile indiscriminately. We don't need to be protected from Adam Savage's blades. The danger comes from John Doe Terrorist who has a device that we haven't considered hidden in a place we aren't (yet) willing to look. There may be an endless list of dangerous items, but there is a definite (and exhaustible) list of people who will show up at the airport today.
 
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