Don't know what to call this: marriage question

[JaneFW]

How do you handle the hard stuff with your spouse? I need to talk to my h about something that happened at the weekend, which was an anger issue again. I don't want to debate his anger, or whether I'm being abused (I'm not) or whether I provoked him blah blah. Let's just assume that I'm being honest in saying that his screaming the f word at me at the top of his voice, out in the street, in front of the kids, and anyone else who was around, was humiliating and unnecessary. There has been no apology. We're just not talking to each other. Oh, hang on, 10 minutes later he said "I love you - you're just a pain in the [beep] sometimes." Hmm, okay. For some reason, that just doesn't do it.

IMO, I need to give him some kind of ultimatum. I'm at the point where I refuse to accept this kind of thing any longer. However, I don't know how to make him understand just how offensive this behavior is. We had just been to our new church that morning, and I was thinking of saying that I am not willing to start attending a new church, unless we are going to start living by at least some of Christ's commands. I would like to grandly say that I will walk out the next time that he screams at me, but then I would have to follow through .. and I can't see me doing that. (And I think he knows that.)

What would you do in my position? If you're a man - what would persuade you that it was time to reconsider the way that you vent your temper?

 

[mkgal1]

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[Autumnleaf]

Cry. When yells at you like that in front of other people you have to feel it and cry. Let him know he hurt you and he will stop it. The problem with women choosing to look strong is that they trade away the best power they have which is to touch a man's heart.

 

[Cute Tink]

I think you need to approach him and ask him why he felt that screaming at you was necessary. Not screaming at you in front of the kids, or in public or in front of anyone. Just screaming in general.

You can tell him that it upset you, hurt you, embarrassed you, etc. if you want, but I would recommend waiting to see where his head was at first and then put the rest out there. If you look for his side first and then ask him to see your side, perhaps you can meet in the middle. If you go to him with your side first, then he might just get defensive about it and not explain himself.

Just an idea.

 

[freedmfighter]

Wow...you two described my relationship with my husband. I must admit though, my husband doesn't call me names, or you uses any bad language whatsoever and he will never yell at me on the street. But when it comes to blaming....he's the blameless party and nobody tells him he's wrong. If the marriage is wrecked..it's all my fault.
You are right mkgal... my marriage has had alot of strokes...and it is gone to the point where...I don't want to make any emotional connections with him. It has gone to a superfiscial marriage now....I would prefer to have some emotional connection with him....unfortunatley....he's chased me away with "I have to win no matter what" and when he has disrespected and hurt me..I will hear "I"m never to blame around here so don't expect any apologies"
It's a hard relationship to deal with...if I can turn the clock back..I would tell him to find somebody else. But, I'm committed to my marriage and therefore I try to find ways to deal with it.

 

[Sailor_A]

Cry. When yells at you like that in front of other people you have to feel it and cry. Let him know he hurt you and he will stop it. The problem with women choosing to look strong is that they trade away the best power they have which is to touch a man's heart.

I've not often seen this work to be honest. However if she can cry on cue I'm not against giving it a try.

 

[mkgal1]

Do you know what it was that frustrated him? Not the superficial cause....but, what was deeper? Did it have anything to do with attending that church?

As far as the ultimatum goes......maybe finding a church that YOU feel comfortable with would be an answer? A church for just you, I mean. I don't know how you feel about that, or if it's the right solution for you. I just know that for me.....sitting beside my husband in church felt very hypocritical. I also felt sort of stunted in a way, because I needed the freedom to share prayer requests and receive support. I couldn't do that confidently knowing that what I shared would stay within the group.

 

[FaithPrevails]

I'm sorry that you had to experience that. I've been on the receiving end of that (yelled/cussed at or even mocked/made fun of) kind of behavior and it is hurtful and humiliating.

If you know you won't leave if it happens again, you have to first understand what you are willing to do to enforce the boundary. I don't like the word ultimatum b/c it seems like too much of a challenge to the other person. But, you are right that whatever you call it won't be effective unless you are willing to make good on your word if push comes to shove.

So, I would suggest that you pray about what you would be willing to follow through on as a consequence to the boundary being breached first.

Once you have done that, I would recommend a similar approach to what Cute Tink suggested. Once you know what caused it, then you can address how it made you feel and the boundary you are creating to prevent it from happening again.

for you.

 

[blythe_ann]

Jane, that would frighten me so much! I don't take being yelled at well at all, and cursing is still not something I'm used to.
I haven't a clue what you should do. I would be upset and shocked if it were to happen to me from anyone, let alone my husband!

 

[mkgal1]

I agree with Faith about praying about what your course of action will be in response to the yellling. God is the ONLY one that knows all the details. He knows what's causing the frustration in your husband, even if your husband doesn't know, and He knows what your husband will respond to as well.

I will join you in that prayer.

 

[JaneFW]

Thanks.

This is not a new response. This has always been his response to any kind of .. irritation or annoyance. Instead of going from irritated to a little bit more irritated, it escalates immediately into full on shouting. I can't count a time since I have known him where he didn't respond to irritation in this manner. This is why he was *supposed to* find an anger management group a few months ago - which he acknowledged he needed to do. And didn't. Again.

I've just had enough this time. While I could dismiss it when the boys were younger, parly because they were as afraid as I was, and they didn't understand what he was saying, but now, for him to him say those things in front of them, I just can't bear it. I can't bear to be 'doing the church thing' again, and this is 3 hours later. I can't bear any more hypocrisy playing the happy family at church and knowing it is a lie. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to quit our past church, and just really take a step away from organized religion. I know it sounds silly, but I was angry with God too - that why on earth do I come to your church, pray to you, hope for change, and you don't give it to me? I know that's childish, but I guess I had thought - new church, new start - and then um, not so much. But his anger was not linked to church attendance, his anger is just him, and who he is, and always has been.

As for crying - I was okay until he came over to me in the kitchen and said "ILY but you're a pain in the ---." I mean, I was miserable and hurt, but when he said that, and wanted to kiss me, I couldn't bear it. That's NOT an apology. It won't change anything. I'm tired of "I'm sorry" and then no change. So, my eyes just filled up, and then he asked me if I wanted him to go away, and I said yes, and he went. We've barely spoken since.

I didn't want to talk to him then because I'm tired of this drama playing out in front of our kids. I saw my parents drama for all those years, and it messed me up. I don't want my kids messed up like that. He calls on them sometimes when he's mad with me and says "See what it's like! See what marriage is like! You (he) can't do anything right!" I hate that too. I hate being put on display to them like some kind of evil person, and he's the poor victim. It disgusts me. Adults shouldn't act that way in front of their children.

I just can't deal with it this time, not any more. I'm at the end of my tether.

 

[dorig59]

Jane, this really ticks me off because my husband tends to be this way, too. WHY do some people have NO problem whatsoever screaming, yelling, and/or cursing in public? Have they no shame at all, do they want people to hear them screaming? If I were you, I wouldn't worry about going to church because you all act Christian, I'd say (to my husband) I don't want to go to church because I'm afraid you'll start yelling about something. I mean, it's like they don't care, you could be ANYplace. I don't get that. It makes me not respect a person who acts like that.

So what I had told my husband (and I sometimes still have to repeat it), DO NOT yell at me or the kids when they lived with us, publicly. If you have an issue, you freakin' wait until we get home or in the car or whatever. That's got to be the starting point, and then you work on the volume and the cussing.

 

[JaneFW]

Jane, this really ticks me off because my husband tends to be this way, too. WHY do some people have NO problem whatsoever screaming, yelling, and/or cursing in public? Have they no shame at all, do they want people to hear them screaming? If I were you, I wouldn't worry about going to church because you all act Christian, I'd say (to my husband) I don't want to go to church because I'm afraid you'll start yelling about something. I mean, it's like they don't care, you could be ANYplace. I don't get that. It makes me not respect a person who acts like that.

So what I had told my husband (and I sometimes still have to repeat it), DO NOT yell at me or the kids when they lived with us, publicly. If you have an issue, you freakin' wait until we get home or in the car or whatever. That's got to be the starting point, and then you work on the volume and the cussing.

Exactly!!

He did that at church once. We had driven down in separate cars, and he was racing me, which was just nuts, so I let him pass me as it was so important to him, and when I arrived he was all grinning and slapping the boys on their backs, and then I said something about watching the speed limit and he had a full on screaming session in the parking lot, which somehow turned into how it had nothing to do with his private parts! Well, as I had not mentioned private parts, nor thought about them, I could only stare at him in disbelief. Then I went and got back in my car and sat in it for the whole of Sunday School, and only went in for the service. I coudn't believe it - standing in the church parking lot screaming about how it had nothing to do with the size of his stuff! I guess that must be a guy thing?? Anyway, he apologized a day later, and he usually always does apologize, but this is .. years and years of this garbage, and I'm tired of it.

He's actually proud that he's "on a short fuse" and jokes about it. Our counselor told him years ago that being on a "short fuse" is a choice that he makes. My h has since said that the counselor was wrong about most things, so I guess that gives him a get out from taking any responsibility for his temper.

You know I could back over the years and give 20-30 examples of his completely irrational explosions over nothing but general irritations. He has said some things to me that have been devastating.

I know, reading this, bearing in mind that we have no sex life too, I wonder what the heck I am doing here too.

 

[dorig59]

I think I would have left instead of sittting in the car. ONe time we were at the church I used to go to with my ex-husband throughout the years my kids were growing up. All my dear friends were there, and I was sitting there talking with my best friend about how wonderful my husband is, and then he comes over like a bull in a china shop screaming about something one of the kids did. I was so humiliated, I just wanted to disappear. That's the biggest reason why I don't care to go to church anymore. Since we moved here 5 years ago, we haven't attempted to find a place.

I've only been with my husband for 8 years, so I can't go way, way back, but all I can say is that he is mellowing as he gets older (49). And the first three years we were together, we worked togethher, so we were with each other 24/7. We both loved it and look fondly back at those days, but because we were together so much there were more opportunities for those types of things to happen.

My FIL is EXACTLY the same way. Ugh. He'll say the most God-awful things to people, his wife mostly, unfortunately, and then a few hours late he doesn't understand why she's upset with him. Oh brother. I just don't respect that kind of behavior whatsoever.

And by the way, are you praying like for his temper to cool down? Usually when you do that, the issue happens MORE because the Lord is giving you opportunities to practice handling whatever the issue is. So maybe you shouldn't pray for that, LOL!

 

[JaneFW]

I think I would have left instead of sittting in the car. ONe time we were at the church I used to go to with my ex-husband throughout the years my kids were growing up. All my dear friends were there, and I was sitting there talking with my best friend about how wonderful my husband is, and then he comes over like a bull in a china shop screaming about something one of the kids did. I was so humiliated, I just wanted to disappear. That's the biggest reason why I don't care to go to church anymore. Since we moved here 5 years ago, we haven't attempted to find a place.

I've only been with my husband for 8 years, so I can't go way, way back, but all I can say is that he is mellowing as he gets older (49). And the first three years we were together, we worked togethher, so we were with each other 24/7. We both loved it and look fondly back at those days, but because we were together so much there were more opportunities for those types of things to happen.

My FIL is EXACTLY the same way. Ugh. He'll say the most God-awful things to people, his wife mostly, unfortunately, and then a few hours late he doesn't understand why she's upset with him. Oh brother. I just don't respect that kind of behavior whatsoever.

And by the way, are you praying like for his temper to cool down? Usually when you do that, the issue happens MORE because the Lord is giving you opportunities to practice handling whatever the issue is. So maybe you shouldn't pray for that, LOL!

Well I can't blame my FIL for my h's behavior, because he rarely loses his temper that I have seen. If anything, I blame my MIL for not keeping a tighter rein on her son. But then, I really should only lay the blame with my h because he's an adult now and knows how to act.

I don't pray any more for anything to do with my husband. I gave that up a little while back. Yep, my bad, but it wasn't making any difference anyway so I gave up.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Jane, do you think addressing the outburst with him and setting a boundary regarding the anger management class would work? Give him a time limit for attending it - he needs to find a group and start attending in X amount of time. The efforts he puts into attendance and taking what he learns to heart and employing it at home with you/the kids needs to be sincere. If he fails to meet either (or both) of the requirements, then maybe a trial separation would show him just how "over it" you are at this point. Of course, with the separation intending to get him to either finally do what he needs to do to help heal your marriage or, well, end the marriage. (Hopefully the former is the result if it gets that far and not the latter).

I think you really hit on something when you made the comment about the boys witnessing all of this. They will either do one of two things in their own relationships: mimic their father's behavior or be the complete opposite. They need to be shown, somehow, that it is not acceptable to behave this way and that a girlfriend/wife won't tolerate being treated this way, IMHO.

 

[JaneFW]

So, what do I do? I wanted to email him today and just lay it all out, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm whatsoever.

 

[dorig59]

What I do is say "we have to talk." He hates it when I say that because he knows it's going to be something at least mildly unpleasant. But if you don't feel like dealing with it, wait until you do. Most likely there won't be any big changes. Not trying to discourage you, but USUALLY when a person is "like that" and they've been like that their entire lives, there's not much you can do. THEY have to want to change. THey have to see they have a problem. I think the most basic thing you could possibly get him to strictly adhere to is to at least not do this in public. People look like fools when they do that publicly. Tell him that if he cannot control his temper that he at least must agree to NOT do it in public.

 

[dorig59]

One other thing, don't get hung up about how you look in public, like a good Christian family, yet the reality at home is different. EVERYBODY has that. Everybody puts a good face on at church. Believe me, if you could be a fly on the wall in someone's home, you would be surprised. Don't let that keep you from growing as a Christian.

 

[mkgal1]

Jane....you may need to take a different course of action for yourself, but for me......the more I tried to involve my husband---the more defeated I felt. Any time I would bring something up, it would turn into more resentment....more arguing....more dysfunction. On my own, I decided I would make things as peaceful as they could be....that meant sort of going my own way, and not expecting any involvement from him. The silence has been better than the arguing.....although it's really just the lessor of two evils.