Don't forget the OTHER side of the Holocaust

[rambot]

Texas book controversy: School administrator told teachers to include Holocaust books with 'opposing' views when explaining new state law - CNN

I chose CNN cause I'm lazy. I'm positive you can find any one of a number of other sites commenting on this case.

My first question is this:
Do you think this school administrator ACTUALLY wants "the opposing view of the holocaust" in the classroom or do you think they did this bring attention to the sheer folly of this ludicrous bill?




With that said, perhaps that's just all a dog and pony show.
Here is the bill itself:
Texas HB3979 | 2021-2022 | 87th Legislature

What is this even? How is this not disconcerting to ANYONE that governments can dictate this kind of nonsense?

Check it out...look what you CANNOT do in Social Studies class:

no teacher shall be compelled by a policy of any
state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter
school, or school administration to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs;

That's the OPPOSITE of what should happen.
Social studies teachers should be WANTING to have these conversations. How can we expect adults to grow up and be able to have tough conversations without giving them a chance to practice and learn how as kids?

When did America become so lily white that they hated having tough conversations on tough subjects? Was it when folks started suggesting that maybe members of certain races are still able to exert power over other races whether formally or informally, consciously or subconsciously?

Another one:

teachers who choose to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs shall, to the best of their ability, strive to
explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives
without giving deference to any one perspective;

On the surface this sounds reasonable. But this is written by a politician and not an educator.
For example:
How quick will they be to say that Communism and Socialism are JUST AS GOOD as capitalism.
And
Equality is good. But racism is also really good and totally level and beneficial for society too.

no school district or teacher shall require, make
part of a course, or award course grading or credit including extra
credit for, political activism, lobbying, or efforts to persuade
members of the legislative or executive branch to take specific
actions by direct communication at the local, state or federal
level, or any practicum or like activity involving social or public
policy advocacy.

I guess that means politicians can no longer go to school and present themeslves and the policies they are fighting for.

(5) No teacher, administrator, or other employee in
any state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter
school, or school administration shall be required to engage in
training, orientation, or therapy that presents any form of race or
sex stereotyping or blame on the basis of race or sex.

The use of the word "blame" here is highly suspect and, in my opinion, could easily be taken to a challenge.

And number 6, what a shambles. But that said I can imagine more than a few people are just SALIVATING over that.

 

[Abaxvahl]

My first question is this:
Do you think this school administrator ACTUALLY wants "the opposing view of the holocaust" in the classroom or do you think they did this bring attention to the sheer folly of this ludicrous bill?

When did America become so lily white that they hated having tough conversations on tough subjects? Was it when folks started suggesting that maybe members of certain races are still able to exert power over other races whether formally or informally, consciously or subconsciously?

I don't think the admin actually wants that it sounds like just a comment on how ridiculous it is. I'd say something like that too honestly when explaining the implementation of a bill that stupid.

As for when America became so: some people are just snowflakes and can't handle that the nation isn't perfect I suppose.

 

[HTacianas]

Texas book controversy: School administrator told teachers to include Holocaust books with 'opposing' views when explaining new state law - CNN

I chose CNN cause I'm lazy. I'm positive you can find any one of a number of other sites commenting on this case.

My first question is this:
Do you think this school administrator ACTUALLY wants "the opposing view of the holocaust" in the classroom or do you think they did this bring attention to the sheer folly of this ludicrous bill?




With that said, perhaps that's just all a dog and pony show.
Here is the bill itself:
Texas HB3979 | 2021-2022 | 87th Legislature

What is this even? How is this not disconcerting to ANYONE that governments can dictate this kind of nonsense?

Check it out...look what you CANNOT do in Social Studies class:
That's the OPPOSITE of what should happen.
Social studies teachers should be WANTING to have these conversations. How can we expect adults to grow up and be able to have tough conversations without giving them a chance to practice and learn how as kids?

When did America become so lily white that they hated having tough conversations on tough subjects? Was it when folks started suggesting that maybe members of certain races are still able to exert power over other races whether formally or informally, consciously or subconsciously?

Another one:
On the surface this sounds reasonable. But this is written by a politician and not an educator.
For example:
How quick will they be to say that Communism and Socialism are JUST AS GOOD as capitalism.
And
Equality is good. But racism is also really good and totally level and beneficial for society too.

I guess that means politicians can no longer go to school and present themeslves and the policies they are fighting for.



The use of the word "blame" here is highly suspect and, in my opinion, could easily be taken to a challenge.

And number 6, what a shambles. But that said I can imagine more than a few people are just SALIVATING over that.

You said:

"How is this not disconcerting to ANYONE that governments can dictate this kind of nonsense?"

First of all it's not nonsense. There is nothing in the bill that is even controversial. And yes, a State can dictate a State school curriculum.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

First of all it's not nonsense. There is nothing in the bill that is even controversial.

Really? The article in the OP would suggest otherwise.

And yes, a State can dictate a State school curriculum.

Of course they can. Doesn't mean that they can't be criticized when the curriculum that they dictate has issues.

 

[HTacianas]

Really? The article in the OP would suggest otherwise.

Of course they can. Doesn't mean that they can't be criticized when the curriculum that they dictate has issues.

I don't concern myself with articles. I read the bill itself. There's nothing wrong with it. At this point anyone relying on an article to make a decision about anything at all is misleading themselves.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I don't concern myself with articles. I read the bill itself. There's nothing wrong with it. At this point anyone relying on an article to make a decision about anything at all is misleading themselves.

Reading the bill is a good way to decide what you think about it. Reading an article is a good way to find out what others think about it. If you say that something isn't controversial, that suggests that everyone (or at least the vast majority) shares a single opinion about it. The existence of this thread as well as the article in the OP shows that not everyone shares your opinion of this bill - therefore it can be accurately described as "controversial."

 

[HTacianas]

Reading the bill is a good way to decide what you think about it. Reading an article is a good way to find out what others think about it. If you say that something isn't controversial, that suggests that everyone (or at least the vast majority) shares a single opinion about it. The existence of this thread as well as the article in the OP shows that not everyone shares your opinion of this bill - therefore it can be accurately described as "controversial."

Let's look at a part of it that the OP seems to take issue with:

no teacher shall be compelled by a policy of any
state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter
school, or school administration to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs;

Who is it, exactly, that should be compelling a teacher to discuss something? Please be specific.

 

[rambot]

I don't concern myself with articles. I read the bill itself. There's nothing wrong with it. At this point anyone relying on an article to make a decision about anything at all is misleading themselves.

That's why I quoted and commented directly on the bill too.

 

[rambot]

Let's look at a part of it that the OP seems to take issue with:

no teacher shall be compelled by a policy of any
state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter
school, or school administration to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs;

Who is it, exactly, that should be compelling a teacher to discuss something? Please be specific.

Well you literally just said the state.

 

[HTacianas]

Well you literally just said the state.

What is the State compelling them to do?

 

[rambot]

What is the State compelling them to do?

The bill is right there.

 

[Goonie]

Deleted

 

[rjs330]

Reading the bill is a good way to decide what you think about it. Reading an article is a good way to find out what others think about it. If you say that something isn't controversial, that suggests that everyone (or at least the vast majority) shares a single opinion about it. The existence of this thread as well as the article in the OP shows that not everyone shares your opinion of this bill - therefore it can be accurately described as "controversial."

And yet when an article is linked to from a "conservative" site it is dismissed out of hand. Because of course it can't be trusted.

 

[rjs330]

On the surface this sounds reasonable. But this is written by a politician and not an educator.
For example:
How quick will they be to say that Communism and Socialism are JUST AS GOOD as capitalism.
And
Equality is good. But racism is also really good and totally level and beneficial for society too.

That's not what the bill says at all.

Do you really believe that racism is really a controversy? That the entire debate on racism in society today is "racism is good vs racism is bad?"

The debate of communism vs capitalism is the debate on which is better for society. Not that they are equal. And students should be given the pros and cons to both in order to help them understand the differences between the two.

Cause right now this bill is a direct result of teachers and schools teaching the leftist and progressive ideology to their students and presenting only one side. The leftist, progressive side and creating the impression that America is an aweful country and that white people are a bunch of racists and socialism/communism is wonderful while capitalism is evil. Teachers are getting students involved in marching on the capitals, writing letters, making videos or whatever, telling their legislators, governors that they should be pushing the leftist and progressive ideology.

If teachers were actually being equal in their treatment of history and issues we wouldn't need a bill like this.

Aren't you progressives the ones always crying about how we don't teach enough about how bad and racist our country is? Doesn't this bill allow for that while at the same time giving equal time to how far we have come in that area? Cause right now we have moved completely away from an objective look to a politically biased, progressive and leftist ideological propaganda ideology in schools.

I think this is a great bill.

 

[rambot]

That's not what the bill says at all.

Help me understand that particular part of the bill then.


I mean, that is essentially what the administrator just said. How are they wrong?

 

[rjs330]

Help me understand that particular part of the bill then.


I mean, that is essentially what the administrator just said. How are they wrong?

Read post 14. I added to it.

 

[rambot]

That's not what the bill says at all.

Do you really believe that racism is really a controversy? That the entire debate on racism in society today is "racism is good vs racism is bad?"

The school administrator said that if you have a book about the holocaust, portraying it as a travesty of humanity, the bill requires books with an alternate perspective. I don't see how that administrator overstepped her boundaries. Either it's a misapplication of a good law or its an appropriate application of a terrible law. I firmly believe it is the latter; I think you believe it's the former.

Do you think it's a good idea to include this kind of literature in the classroom?

The debate of communism vs capitalism is the debate on which is better for society. Not that they are equal. And students should be given the pros and cons to both in order to help them understand the differences between the two.

I don't believe for even a second that the education system in Texas has ever presented communism and socialism appropriately. Frankly, judging by how most Americans and many North Americans use the term, I'm highly skeptical it is taught at all in schools.

Cause right now this bill is a direct result of teachers and schools teaching the leftist and progressive ideology to their students and presenting only one side. The leftist, progressive side and creating the impression that America is an aweful country and that white people are a bunch of racists and socialism/communism is wonderful while capitalism is evil. Teachers are getting students involved in marching on the capitals, writing letters, making videos or whatever, telling their legislators, governors that they should be pushing the leftist and progressive ideology.

If teachers were actually being equal in their treatment of history and issues we wouldn't need a bill like this.

It's kinda funny because your argument is based on the assumption that, at some point, the Texas education ACTUALLY presented balanced information and NOW it is being overrun by leftists and progressive ideology.
When in fact, the system has taught with a slant and these organizations that you decry are trying to make it balanced by giving a voice to a huge segment of your population.

When you are used to a scale being imbalanced in a way that aligns with your outlook, you fall under the impression that there IS balance and fairness and changes to that will be seen as activist and destructive. You see your position as objective and balanced. It is not.

Aren't you progressives the ones always crying about how we don't teach enough about how bad and racist our country is? Doesn't this bill allow for that while at the same time giving equal time to how far we have come in that area? Cause right now we have moved completely away from an objective look to a politically biased, progressive and leftist ideological propaganda ideology in schools.

See my above comment.

 

[rturner76]

Is it basically that they want parents to retain the right to teach their kids to be racist?

 

[rjs330]

The school administrator said that if you have a book about the holocaust, portraying it as a travesty of humanity, the bill requires books with an alternate perspective. I don't see how that administrator overstepped her boundaries. Either it's a misapplication of a good law or its an appropriate application of a terrible law. I firmly believe it is the latter; I think you believe it's the former.

Do you think it's a good idea to include this kind of literature in the classroom?

I think this is a crock of an excuse. The Holocaust was a travesty and we all know that. How do we come to that conclusion? Not because some teacher or book says so. It's because we decide it was due to what happened. When we read a book about the actual events of the Holocaust we don't need the book TELLING us it was bad. How many books out there are there that proclaim that starving people to death, committing medical experiments in them without anesthesia, gassing them and torchering them was a good thing?

This is a really stupid argument. This administrator just doesn't want to be told they can't just proclaim leftist, progressive propeganda in their classroom without being called on it.

don't believe for even a second that the education system in Texas has ever presented communism and socialism appropriately. Frankly, judging by how most Americans and many North Americans use the term, I'm highly skeptical it is taught at all in schools.

I'm sure you don't think so. Well now, here is your opportunity in Texas to do so. Teach the pros and cons of each. I got no issues with that. Why do you?

It's kinda funny because your argument is based on the assumption that, at some point, the Texas education ACTUALLY presented balanced information and NOW it is being overrun by leftists and progressive ideology.
When in fact, the system has taught with a slant and these organizations that you decry are trying to make it balanced by giving a voice to a huge segment of your population.

When you are used to a scale being imbalanced in a way that aligns with your outlook, you fall under the impression that there IS balance and fairness and changes to that will be seen as activist and destructive. You see your position as objective and balanced. It is not.

Interesting that you are against balancing it out. If you are so sure that education wasn't balanced then you should be for this bill. Now it has to be.

The left has taken over the educational system and tilted it the other direction now. Just like they have been working on since the 20s and 30s.
What "slant" are you talking about? You mean there wasn't any slant about how terrible America is and how we are all a bunch of racists? You mean that slant was abscent? How awful.

Now socialism is being taught as a wonderful thing, racism is in your soul and you can't help it. America is a terrible country, white people are really bad racists, by virtue of the color of their skin, males are toxic and sexist and any other number of progressive ideas. And this is seen as a good thing and balancing the scales.

If you are really for balance you would be for this bill.

 

[rjs330]

Is it basically that they want parents to retain the right to teach their kids to be racist?

Ahh yes.... I see it clearly outlined in the bill.