Donkeys and Serpents

[FaithT]

It’s my understanding that the LCMS views the Bible as inerrant. So my question is this: how did the serpent and donkey speak?
Was it Satan speaking through the serpent and God speaking through the donkey or what?

 

[FaithT]

Anyone else care to chime in?

 

[FaithT]

I just had a thought. Some of the many stories in the Bible seem hard to believe, and I wondered why there are so many stories there, yet we never see these events today. It bothered me because I thought that makes me a poor Christian. Then it occurred to me that maybe they’re in the Bible BECAUSE they’re so extraordinary. Like maybe the events, long ages etc. were preserved in this Book because they were so miraculous and out of the norm. What do you all think?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I think my new church, the LCMS views this this passage as literally true.

The serpent did literally speak, donkey also.

 

[Resha Caner]

It’s my understanding that the LCMS views the Bible as inerrant. So my question is this: how did the serpent and donkey speak?
Was it Satan speaking through the serpent and God speaking through the donkey or what?

To answer your original question, God caused the donkey to speak - gave it the ability to speak (Numbers 22:28), but it was the donkey speaking - not God speaking through the donkey. The serpent is not so clear. Genesis seems to imply it was an actual serpent, but Revelation 12:9 seems to imply it was Satan in serpent's form.

I think my new church, the LCMS views this this passage as literally true.

Yes. It actually happened.

I just had a thought. Some of the many stories in the Bible seem hard to believe, and I wondered why there are so many stories there, yet we never see these events today. It bothered me because I thought that makes me a poor Christian. Then it occurred to me that maybe they’re in the Bible BECAUSE they’re so extraordinary. Like maybe the events, long ages etc. were preserved in this Book because they were so miraculous and out of the norm. What do you all think?

Exactly. Miracles of "Biblical proportion" (so to speak) are very rare. Their frequency in the Bible may make it seem as if they happen all the time, but if you count up the number of big miracles in the Bible and compare that to the number of people who have lived on earth and the timespan over which they lived, you'll realize very few people have ever seen such a thing.

With that said, don't think miracles never happen today. There was a study done on miracle claims because people always expect it has decreased in the "scientific" age. What the study found is that isn't true. Claims of miracles are just as frequent now as they ever have been. Of course some of those claims are probably false - or maybe even demonically inspired - but true miracles still happen. It's just that, as in Biblical times, they are a rather rare phenomenon.

(Staff Edit)

Given the direction this conversation has gone, maybe some further discussion on miracles is warranted - if people are interested.

 

[FaithT]

To answer your original question, God caused the donkey to speak - gave it the ability to speak (Numbers 22:28), but it was the donkey speaking - not God speaking through the donkey. The serpent is not so clear. Genesis seems to imply it was an actual serpent, but Revelation 12:9 seems to imply it was Satan in serpent's form.



Yes. It actually happened.



Exactly. Miracles of "Biblical proportion" (so to speak) are very rare. Their frequency in the Bible may make it seem as if they happen all the time, but if you count up the number of big miracles in the Bible and compare that to the number of people who have lived on earth and the timespan over which they lived, you'll realize very few people have ever seen such a thing.

With that said, don't think miracles never happen today. There was a study done on miracle claims because people always expect it has decreased in the "scientific" age. What the study found is that isn't true. Claims of miracles are just as frequent now as they ever have been. Of course some of those claims are probably false - or maybe even demonically inspired - but true miracles still happen. It's just that, as in Biblical times, they are a rather rare phenomenon.



Or it could be the Bible is recounting a miracle. I understand people such as yourself who don't believe in miracles have to invent another explanation, but in the case of Balaam's donkey, such an explanation doesn't fit the text at all.

Given the direction this conversation has gone, maybe some further discussion on miracles is warranted - if people are interested.

are you saying that even the miracles in the Bible were a rarity as well?

 

[FaithT]

Was the donkey able to speak because of a supernatural miracle?

 

[Resha Caner]

are you saying that even the miracles in the Bible were a rarity as well?

It seems to me they were. There could be many miracles we're unaware of, but I could make a list of people in the Bible for whom no miracles are recounted. There is Tola and Jair, two of Israel's judges mentioned in Judges 10. There is Esther - an entire book about her and no mention of miracles (or God at all for that matter). I don't recall any miracles in Ruth either. The list goes on. The Bible mentions plenty of people who led ordinary lives.

Was the donkey able to speak because of a supernatural miracle?

It says the donkey spoke because God enabled it. There is no mention of any donkeys (including that one) speaking before or since. I would consider that a miracle - especially since the purpose of a miracle is to send a message. In other words, when it's all said and done, the message is more important than the wonder that got your attention.

What is more important is what God was telling Balaam, not that he used a donkey to do it.

 

[FaithT]

<<<<<<<Given the direction this conversation has gone, maybe some further discussion on miracles is warranted - if people are interested.>>>>>>>

Yes, I’m interested.

 

[Resha Caner]

Yes, I’m interested.

Do you have a particular question?

Given I've had many discussions about miracles with people over time, I've developed a standard 3 points I try to make about miracles. But I don't want to ramble on about things you're not interested in.

 

[FaithT]

It seems to me they were. There could be many miracles we're unaware of, but I could make a list of people in the Bible for whom no miracles are recounted. There is Tola and Jair, two of Israel's judges mentioned in Judges 10. There is Esther - an entire book about her and no mention of miracles (or God at all for that matter). I don't recall any miracles in Ruth either. The list goes on. The Bible mentions plenty of people who led ordinary lives.



It says the donkey spoke because God enabled it. There is no mention of any donkeys (including that one) speaking before or since. I would consider that a miracle - especially since the purpose of a miracle is to send a message. In other words, when it's all said and done, the message is more important than the wonder that got your attention.

What is more important is what God was telling Balaam, not that he used a donkey to do it.

Do you think even people back then had a hard time believing these miracles, too?

 

[FaithT]

Do you have a particular question?

Given I've had many discussions about miracles with people over time, I've developed a standard 3 points I try to make about miracles. But I don't want to ramble on about things you're not interested in.

Not really, except the question I asked, above. You can start the discussion.

 

[Resha Caner]

Not really, except the question I asked, above. You can start the discussion.

OK. We can discuss that question first, and then move on to other things if you don't have more questions.

Do you think even people back then had a hard time believing these miracles, too?

Yes. The two examples I would give are:
1) Exodus 7:8-13 - When Aaron threw down his staff before Pharaoh and it became a serpent, the Egyptians responded with, "Meh, we can do that trick too." And they did. The fascinating part of that story is that Aaron's serpent ate the Egyptian serpents. That became the pattern of all the miracles that followed. Each of the 10 miracles was an attack on a particular Egyptian god, and the Hebrew God always defeated (i.e. "ate") the Egyptian god.
2) Luke 16:31 - At the end of the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, Jesus comments that people won't believe even if someone rises from the dead … an ironic jab at what is going to happen after his own Resurrection.

I guess I would add that ancient peoples are often considered more naïve and superstitious than we modern, educated people. But that really isn't true. Dr. Ryan Reeves has a video essay about the Roman religion of Jesus' time, where he explains that most Romans didn't believe in their own gods. Rather, they had more of a "don't rock the boat" attitude.

 

[Joy]

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