Donald Trump has the potential to be one of the greatest presidents of all time. Do you agree?

Oct 21, 2003
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I’ll look that up. I went off on a different tangent, I was talking about what seems to be the degeneration of the quality and robustness of debate in universities over there, there’s been a lot in the press about ‘trigger words’ and students getting pretty hysterical about people having views that challenge for example the whole transgender ‘agenda’ and so on. I don’t really have a rounded understanding of what is going on but it seems to be similar to what is happening in parts of Europe, a kind of indoctrination that sets up harsh penalties for students who disagree with the liberal/just be nice rather than truthful movement.

The last debate I watched was held at a Church, and featured three Christians and three atheist/agnostics. I only watched about half of it, because I've watched so many debates, none of the material is really new from either side, and the atheist/agnostics in the audience could not be quiet and peaceful turned me off. It would not be the first debate I have watched where certain people in the audience get so hysterical they cannot contain themselves in a civil manner. After watching, I look at the comments pertaining to the debate and they mostly consist of insult after insult directed at the Christians. Even the comments from Christians, could do little more than falsely criticize the Christian debaters for what they considered less than perfect Christian behavior. If you're interested in seeing hysterical, watch the abortion clinic videos on youtube put up by Apologia Ministries. The harshness, isn't coming from folks in their ministry, and at times the hysteria involves more than just words. I see harshness coming soon in the direction for any Christian speaking the truth in love especially where they go against the grain of pop culture.
 
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Yekcidmij

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"No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people...

Why would Christianity have to be the basis for securing the rights of a free people? It seems to me that Webster's comments could apply almost generically to any theist, or deist. And it still seems that someone's religious preferences may not be relevant to believing that the purpose of government is to secure the rights of it's people. All that's required is that one believe that people have rights that need to be secured.

Your thoughts?
 
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Why would Christianity have to be the basis for securing the rights of a free people? It seems to me that Webster's comments could apply almost generically to any theist, or deist. And it still seems that someone's religious preferences may not be relevant to believing that the purpose of government is to secure the rights of it's people. All that's required is that one believe that people have rights that need to be secured.

Your thoughts?

:wave: Brother, long time. Sorry if my response is lacking in substance, I usually have difficulties waking up like every day, I feel half asleep. It is a good question, and a book could probably be written in response. I will attempt a brief response, kind of a heart of the matter response. The only method that comes to my mind to secure rights is through law, and law assumes a law giver, and the god of deism for example is not concerned with human affairs, not interested in securing human rights. Most other forms of theism, deformed as such, are nevertheless derived from the same source as Christianity, the Scriptures, and even more acknowledge the Old Testament as a primary source and basis for laws, government, and the general welfare of people in a society. Christianity is superior to them because of Christ, for his teachings on the commandments, the "golden rule", and so much more, for the balance between justice and mercy in civil matters where we as sinners are concerned. I do not know how a person can believe humans have "rights" or that they need to be secured, without first assuming that humans have the value of being created in the image of God, and that revelation is known through the Scriptures.

"Every civil government is based upon some religion or philosophy of life. Education in a nation will propagate the religion of that nation. In America, the foundational religion was Christianity. And it was sown in the hearts of Americans through the home and private and public schools for centuries. Our liberty, growth, and prosperity was the result of a Biblical philosophy of life. Our continued freedom and success is dependent on our educating the youth of America in the principles of Christianity." - Noah Webster

 
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jgarden

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Donald Trump has the potential to be one of the greatest presidents of all time. Do you agree?

The spirits of those whose time in the White House were widely considered to be "failed presidencies" will now rest easier, secure in the knowledge that "The Donald" has descended to such levels of futility that can never be equalled!
 
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jgarden

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..... "Every civil government is based upon some religion or philosophy of life. Education in a nation will propagate the religion of that nation. In America, the foundational religion was Christianity. And it was sown in the hearts of Americans through the home and private and public schools for centuries. Our liberty, growth, and prosperity was the result of a Biblical philosophy of life. Our continued freedom and success is dependent on our educating the youth of America in the principles of Christianity." - Noah Webster
n-JOHN-ADAMS-628x314.jpg


“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
—John Adams
 
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pat34lee

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The spirits of those whose time in the White House were widely considered to be "failed presidencies" will now rest easier, secure in the knowledge that "The Donald" has descended to such levels of futility that can never be equalled!

Actually, President Trump has probably already surpassed
half a dozen Presidents, if not more. Just his decision to
acknowledge Jerusalem as capital of Israel where none
have had the backbone to do so since 1967, puts him head
and shoulders above the previous four.
 
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pat34lee

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“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
—John Adams

He's right, but you probably not why you think.

How many Christians believe we don't have to
keep the law? It is based on biblical principles,
not Christian doctrine.
 
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Hank77

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He's right, but you probably not why you think.

How many Christians believe we don't have to
keep the law? It is based on biblical principles,
not Christian doctrine.
Not based on the Christian religion of his day, not what people may think today. Most assuredly the 10 Commandments are relevant even today for most Christians.
 
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tulc

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He's right, but you probably not why you think.

How many Christians believe we don't have to
keep the law? It is based on biblical principles,
not Christian doctrine.
...I'm not sure I understand what that means? Here's the quote in context:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
and here's an article talking about what it means:
Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia
According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers." Lambert writes,

"By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.[14]
tulc(hopes that helps) :wave:
 
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“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” —John Adams

So our second president John Adams should never have signed the treaty of tripoli, cabiniet member McHenry had it right...

"A prominent member of Adams' cabinet, Secretary of War James McHenry, claims that he protested the language of article 11 before its ratification. He wrote to Secretary of the Treasury Oliver Wolcott, Jr., September 26, 1800:

"The Senate, my good friend, and I said so at the time, ought never to have ratified the treaty alluded to, with the declaration that 'the government of the United States, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.' What else is it founded on? This act always appeared to me like trampling upon the cross. I do not recollect that Barlow was even reprimanded for this outrage upon the government and religion."

A second treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, superseded the 1796 treaty. The 1805 treaty did not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
 
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tulc

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So our second president John Adams should never have signed the treaty of tripoli, cabiniet member McHenry had it right...

"A prominent member of Adams' cabinet, Secretary of War James McHenry, claims that he protested the language of article 11 before its ratification. He wrote to Secretary of the Treasury Oliver Wolcott, Jr., September 26, 1800:

"The Senate, my good friend, and I said so at the time, ought never to have ratified the treaty alluded to, with the declaration that 'the government of the United States, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.' What else is it founded on? This act always appeared to me like trampling upon the cross. I do not recollect that Barlow was even reprimanded for this outrage upon the government and religion."

A second treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, superseded the 1796 treaty. The 1805 treaty did not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
Here's an interesting thing about James McHenry and John Adams:
During President John Adams's administration (1797–1801), he also appointed McHenry as his Secretary of War, as he had decided to keep the newly established institution of the presidential cabinet intact. There was no precedent to follow in the new constitutional government. Adams gradually found that three members of the cabinet repeatedly opposed him; McHenry, Pickering (the Secretary of State), and Oliver Wolcott, Jr. (the Secretary of the Treasury). They appeared to listen more to Alexander Hamilton than to the president and publicly disagreed with Adams about his foreign policy, particularly with regard to France. Instead of resigning, they stayed in office to work against his official policy. It is unknown if Adams knew they were being disloyal. Although many liked McHenry personally, Washington, Hamilton, and Wolcott were said to have complained of his incompetence as an administrator.[4]
so I'd say taking what he said at face value it might (in his opinion) be true, there's also a good chance this was one more attempt by him to undermine President Adams. :wave:
tulc(thinks this sounds a lot more like politics then not) :sorry:
 
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pat34lee

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...I'm not sure I understand what that means? Here's the quote in context:

and here's an article talking about what it means:
Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia

tulc(hopes that helps) :wave:

Do you know of any biblical command to go out and kill Muslims?
Or even to treat them differently than you would anyone else?
This is why the country's laws are not fit for a Muslim population,
or Hindu or most other religions. We are going downhill now because
the people are failing to govern themselves. No government can
keep the peace when the citizens are immoral or amoral.
 
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Calminian

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Actually, President Trump has probably already surpassed
half a dozen Presidents, if not more. Just his decision to
acknowledge Jerusalem as capital of Israel where none
have had the backbone to do so since 1967, puts him head
and shoulders above the previous four.

In fact he was hailed by Concerned Women for America as the most pro-life president in history.

One Year Later: Trump Hailed as ‘Most Pro-Life President in Modern History’

And him passing this tax cut against all odds is not making life easy for his haters.
 
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tulc

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(snip)

And him passing this tax cut against all odds is not making life easy for his haters.
oh yeah, the Republicans control the House, the Senate and the Executive Branch...who would have thought they could get something passed? :sorry:
tulc(is left speechless by the sheer...power of their ability to get a law passed) :swoon:
 
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tulc

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Do you know of any biblical command to go out and kill Muslims?
Or even to treat them differently than you would anyone else?
This is why the country's laws are not fit for a Muslim population,
or Hindu or most other religions. We are going downhill now because
the people are failing to govern themselves. No government can
keep the peace when the citizens are immoral or amoral. (emph. added)
I'm assuming the irony of them having already killed over 5,000 fellow Christians in the Revolutionary War is pretty much lost on you? Which Biblical command was that one? :scratch:
tulc(wont even start with which Biblical command allowed them to take land that didn't belong to them in the first place) :sorry:
 
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pat34lee

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oh yeah, the Republicans control the House, the Senate and the Executive Branch...who would have thought they could get something passed? :sorry:
tulc(is left speechless by the sheer...power of their ability to get a law passed) :swoon:

The Democrats didn't, obviously. That's why they
voted against it, knowing the Republicans would
be blamed if it failed to pass, like we blame them
for not repealing Obamacare. A lot of them should
find that out at the polls next time they come up
for re-election. Hopefully the local Tea Parties are
coming up with candidates to run against them.
 
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Calminian

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The Democrats didn't, obviously. That's why they
voted against it, knowing the Republicans would
be blamed if it failed to pass, like we blame them
for not repealing Obamacare. A lot of them should
find that out at the polls next time they come up
for re-election. Hopefully the local Tea Parties are
coming up with candidates to run against them.

They're definitely taking a huge gamble. They know what they're saying isn't true, but to them, all that matters is the vote. If they can win on a lie, the ends justifies the means. And they think they have a good shot. Media will go to every extreme to convince the American people the economy is not good. They have an army (thousands and thousands of leftist propagandists). Be we have a Hulk (Trump). I think we'll win this one.

tenor.gif
 
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Yonny Costopoulis

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They're definitely taking a huge gamble. They know what they're saying isn't true, but to them, all that matters is the vote. If they can win on a lie, the ends justifies the means. And they think they have a good shot. Media will go to every extreme to convince the American people the economy is not good. They have an army (thousands and thousands of leftist propagandists). Be we have a Hulk (Trump). I think we'll win this one.

tenor.gif
That is some big projecting. You are describing Trump and FOX News perfectly.

President Trump's Lies, the Definitive List
2015 Lie of the Year: the campaign misstatements of Donald Trump
Donald Trump's 25 Worst Lies From His First 200 Days
Donald Trump's Lies Are Wounding Our Democracy

STUDY: Watching Fox News Makes You Less Informed
 
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joshua 1 9

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he made, can make, could make more money not being a president.
Not even close. 20 years ago Jeff Beno gave away 20% of his business for one million dollars. Now he is worth 100 billion. In the same way Trumps value went up a lot when he was elected.
 
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