Donald J. Trump the Final Trumpet Sound?

Abraxos

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Hey Abraxos. I can totally get behind contemporary apocalyptic interpretations of the bible. This video is about 52 minutes long by a preacher named Robert Breaker. In it he uses scripture to connect Barack Obama as the Antichrist (one of the main antichrists prophesied). I thought it was very well done and if you get a chance to check it out please let me know what you think.

Also, the numerology surrounding Trump is certainly exciting XD

Interesting video. I think he is a very knowledgeable Christian, and he does notice Luke 10:18 which when I first heard it, I was blown away by it.

Do I think Obama is the Antichrist? I don't know. Even when he was in office, I was never too sure and I don't think anyone could say with certainty. I will say though, that under Obama I have seen more death and more corruption, more lies, more Satanic gestures, more anti-christian and anti-semitic rhetoric than any other president ever. He is by far the closest to the devil than any other person in power than I have ever seen.

I certainly do not think we have seen the last of him.

Didn't every generation believe they were in the end times? Its been going on forever. What makes this generation different from then? Is Jesus even coming at all? Maybe we misinterpret scriptures.... No?
I thought by now that people would stop assuming that whoever becomes our new president is going to bring the apocalypse.
For as long as I can remember this has always been a thing.
Traditions in religion are hard to change I guess.
As a Bible believing Christian, I don't think I could even say that "it's possible that you are correct" with a straight face; there have been far too many "coincidences" and unprecedented events to have taken place for me to simply remain ignorant of.

First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." ~ (2 Peter 3:3)
 
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I'm on phone right now but I'll try to reply anyway because this is extremely important and I don't want to keep you waiting. I read Luke 10:18 but I think I'm missing the significance that you and Robert Breaker are hitting on.

I fully believe that even if Obama is not "the" antichrist, he's a major player/harbinger and there's not a shred of decency in him. It's interesting to note that while the majority of his supporters are secular atheists, in their minds the man can simply do no wrong. At all.

When he introduces a broken Healthcare system that gouges people with fines should they exercise their constitutional right to decline the service.

When everything that comes out of his mouth is quickly revealed to be false or to have some underlying motive to it.

When he gives Iran billions of dollars shortly after they start chanting "death to America" in Tehran.

When he is the main reason for setting race relations back to the 1950s.

When he refuses to condemn anti-Christian extremism.

It's the same kind of reverence one is supposed to rightly ascribe to God, but Obama's followers care only about superficial things like how the man looks and how his voice sounds that they've become blinded so as to forget what he's actually accomplished. And about everything he's done has only been to the detriment of the free world. Works are what's important; not empty words.
 
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Matthew 5:11

It's weird to me how some Christians can be so against Trump when he's been embracing and affirming Christianity since the inauguration. The media slanders him unrelentingly why? Because the rulers of this world are afraid that he's uprooting their dominion and so they need to suppress him. The world loves Obama so much because he is of this world and treated like a god whom can do no wrong. Hopefully they don't follow him into the pit :)
 
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Revealing Times

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Every new president is The AntiChrist.
Exactly....I had to tell people the same thing about Obama, he might be the John the Baptist of the Anti-Christ, but he can not be the Anti-Christ, nor can Trump. Neither one is from Europe, thus neither one could ever be the Anti-Christ.
 
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LastSeven

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Isaiah 2:
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

______________________________________________________________

Revelation 2:7
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Perpetrators of crime and violence of all sorts will not be tolerated like it is now.

There will be sin, but it will not be allowed to fester into war, crime, and violence.
Aside from the fact that nothing in that chapter mentions the thousand year reign, you also didn't answer my question. How can there be peace if there is still sin?
 
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Douggg

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Aside from the fact that nothing in that chapter mentions the thousand year reign, you also didn't answer my question. How can there be peace if there is still sin?
The thousand years as being the length of the messianic age is not found in the Tanach, but the description of it is as it says in Isaiah 2, in the last days when the Lord shall judge among the nations, and they will beat their swords in to plowshares, and learn war no more.

Jesus is going to rule with a rod of iron, as well as them who rule with Him.

There will be sin, but it will not be allowed to fester into war, crime, and violence.

Why are you arguing this point? Jesus is going to be ruling here on the earth and He is not going to allow war. Until at the very end of the thousand years, when Satan is going to be released for a very short time.
 
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I dont mean to be a scoffer. But I am really interested in why it's different this time around. I was used to be a radical about Jesus and pursued Him deeply. Recently though I have been a bit apprehensive. I find mysef questioning the existence of God. My faith took a hit and now nothing is making sense.... So thats why I am wondering, its been the end of age for centuries. What has changed now?!
 
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Trump is the rider on the white horse (Rev 6:2). He is the first Trump/Pence (Rev 8:7), and the madness from the left and right is the result of Revelation 16:2.

The
Red horse is coming soon. The fatal wound will soon be healed.

Seems like things are getting more tense around the world, and a sense of people being at a spiritual crossroads because of this man. Things are in motion, rumours of wars, families divided. Dangerous times! But I wouldn't want to be alive at any other time.

What are your thoughts on my interpretations that Trump is one of the four horseman of the apocalypse?

Maybe if it read something along the lines of,
..."and I looked, and behold, a white house. And he who sat in it had an ego, and a Putin was given to him; and he went forth cankering and to canker."
 
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Well I think to try to tie the name of him with the word is.. not wise. I know some prophecy's said.. by some I dont agree with yet.. are wow. Anyway.. I did see my Fathers hand in all this. A man that is not like a typical believer yet God used this man to bring what HE wanted. Well for years we hear "GODS JUDGING". What I have learned is when MAN speaks ..says what GOD is going to do and then its SO confusing.. God never does what man thinks should be done but what HE wants and His way. WE forget that JUDGEMENT always starts with the CHURCH aka His body..so. we really need to watch what we ask for.

He controls time..so this can last one more second or another 30y and still be right on time. He is out to SAVE this world. He has not changed. 1000y as one day and one day as 1000y. So Jesus just left a tad over 2 days ago. HE IS COMING! I come to give you life and more abundantly. I didnt come to judge or condemn..but to save this world. He never changed. What HE started has not died off but GROWN. We forget EVERYTHING God does is LIFE never death. EVERYTHING. Everything GOD touches is life. Everything that is of GOD grows. Everything that is not.. does not grow and will die.

Sorry got lost. Trump I believe is of God..its GODs way not ours. So we do what HE told us. We pray for them..and for there protection..amen.
 
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Abraxos

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I'm on phone right now but I'll try to reply anyway because this is extremely important and I don't want to keep you waiting. I read Luke 10:18 but I think I'm missing the significance that you and Robert Breaker are hitting on.

I fully believe that even if Obama is not "the" antichrist, he's a major player/harbinger and there's not a shred of decency in him. It's interesting to note that while the majority of his supporters are secular atheists, in their minds the man can simply do no wrong. At all.

When he introduces a broken Healthcare system that gouges people with fines should they exercise their constitutional right to decline the service.

When everything that comes out of his mouth is quickly revealed to be false or to have some underlying motive to it.

When he gives Iran billions of dollars shortly after they start chanting "death to America" in Tehran.

When he is the main reason for setting race relations back to the 1950s.

When he refuses to condemn anti-Christian extremism.

It's the same kind of reverence one is supposed to rightly ascribe to God, but Obama's followers care only about superficial things like how the man looks and how his voice sounds that they've become blinded so as to forget what he's actually accomplished. And about everything he's done has only been to the detriment of the free world. Works are what's important; not empty words.
I cannot speak for Robert Breaker but for me the significance is on what Jesus says after that. The context makes a lot more sense when Jesus reveals that "Satan as lightning fall from heaven." was a parable. He rejoices and blesses those that have eyes to see this parable, for God had hidden this from the wise and prudent and revealed it to little children. He goes on to say,
"For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." Luke 10:21-24.

Also interestingly the chapter is about Jesus sending out the 'sevens'. Food for thought most definitely.
Matthew 5:11

It's weird to me how some Christians can be so against Trump when he's been embracing and affirming Christianity since the inauguration. The media slanders him unrelentingly why? Because the rulers of this world are afraid that he's uprooting their dominion and so they need to suppress him. The world loves Obama so much because he is of this world and treated like a god whom can do no wrong. Hopefully they don't follow him into the pit :)
I fear for my Christian brethren that lean with the leftist ideologies. It's become more of a feeling of holding onto that spiritual aspect in their lives, that goodness. Lovely people but the Christian faith is so easily distorted by the world that they're open season for wolves to take advantage of, causing some to leave the faith. The Bible is our sword and these liberal Christians have been handed a butter-knife. They're in danger of being in that great "falling away" depicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Matthew 7:13.

Too lukewarm and compromising the Christian faith. Revelation 3:14-22.
I dont mean to be a scoffer. But I am really interested in why it's different this time around. I was used to be a radical about Jesus and pursued Him deeply. Recently though I have been a bit apprehensive. I find mysef questioning the existence of God. My faith took a hit and now nothing is making sense.... So thats why I am wondering, its been the end of age for centuries. What has changed now?!
I do not openly say "these are the last days", but I remain aware of what is going on and not to fall into that trap of becoming complacent and ignorant of what the enemy is doing.

Just to name a few reasons on where I am on this: I saw patterns going back to 1948 (Israel becomes a nation), and many other instances leading up to this day were by design (globalism aka NWO). For the last 40+ years Marxism that was brought into western academia had brought degradation of the young minds from the traditional western values, and created a generation Z, a think-tank dependent on this beast system. Places of "higher learning" have become nothing more than indoctrination institutions with MSM propaganda being the mouthpiece of this establishment - and the results of the brainwash are clearly seen around the world when Trump won. You could say the Trump/Pence win was the rosetta stone for unlocking the book of Revelation and identifying the image of the beast.

2017 is also the Jewish Year 5777, also described as Rosh Hashanah which is sometimes translated as the "Feast of Trumpets". Coupled with the first day Donald Trump takes office as the 45th President of the United States, he will be 70 years, 7 months and 7 days old. His vice President Pence in conjunction to his name I can also not ignore.

My advice to you would be to live in peace with everyone and in humility to God and to cherish Jesus' words without falling for the world and it's unspiritual nature.
 
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Douggg

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I dont mean to be a scoffer. But I am really interested in why it's different this time around. I was used to be a radical about Jesus and pursued Him deeply. Recently though I have been a bit apprehensive. I find mysef questioning the existence of God. My faith took a hit and now nothing is making sense.... So thats why I am wondering, its been the end of age for centuries. What has changed now?!
What is different this time around is in 1948 Israel became a nation again, not a country divided into two countries of the northern kingdom (also called Ephraim, and Israel) and the southern kingdom of Judah. In Ezekiel 37:15-28, God said he would reunite the two countries as one country, and when He does "David my servant" will be their king forever. David my servant is a code name for the messiah - Jesus.

So 1948 Israel became that one united country again. It had been divided ever since Solomon died. Israel, as one country, has only had three human kings - Saul, David, Solomon. The next king of Israel - for a sort time - illegitimate will be the Antichrist - who will meet his end when Jesus returns. The True and rightful King of Israel is the Lord Jesus Christ, who the Jews and Jerusalem will say welcoming him - blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

The other concrete sign, different from times past, is in 1967 Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews. That is key to learn the parable of the fig tree that Jesus spoke in his talk to the disciples about the time of his Second Coming and those events in Matthew 24:15-31. And learn the parable of the fig tree is in Matthew 24:32-34, gives the sign of when those things would take place - and the generation that sees the fig tree green with leaves again would not pass away until all things are fulfilled of the Second Coming.
.
The fig tree represents Jerusalem, because as Jesus and the disciples were entering Jerusalem that last pass over week, Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road for bearing no fruit - because he knew the religious leaders and Jerusalem would not receive him as their king and his preaching. The fig tree died and the disciples noticed it as they left Jerusalem that it had died so quickly and because Jesus cursed it.

So you have two signs, Israel, Jersualem, undeniable, that were not in previous generations. Have faith and look up - your redemption draws near. Life can bring about apprehension, and because none of us has gone through this before we need to remind each other of the positive signs before us.

I would also like for you to consider, assuming that you are a Christian, that when we accept, embrace Jesus for our salvation, we receive the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, Who is God, who enters us, specifically our souls and is with us FOREVER, and that the meeting place of us with God is in our souls - which the Holy Spirit works in our souls to remove sins thereof by the blood of Jesus, to make us totally clean and pure, for the day when we meet Jesus face to face. So, therefore, put value on your soul because that is where you and God connect, and doubts fade away.
 
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I dont mean to be a scoffer. But I am really interested in why it's different this time around. I was used to be a radical about Jesus and pursued Him deeply. Recently though I have been a bit apprehensive. I find mysef questioning the existence of God. My faith took a hit and now nothing is making sense.... So thats why I am wondering, its been the end of age for centuries. What has changed now?!
Hi brother Kona ...as much as I am able by God's grace , I am also trying to put things into perspective. There is much I do not understand and the things which I think I understand I may not be seeing clearly. I am not interested in the popular view and my own opinion is much like the question, what is my opinion of gravity or sunshine. The answer is , gravity does not care what my opinion is of it and neither does sunshine. It is my belief that God cares nothing for my opinion ( for which I am thankful) He is God . He is and He will do what He will do. Much of the debates surrounding who is the anti-christ is speculation. In the days of the early church it was stated " there are many anti-christ" as I believe there has been in every generation. It has been the end of the ages since Christ' resurrection. What I believe is different now than at other times is the amount of delusion from believers who profess God but by their actions deny him. Particularly in many American churches ( I can only speak of American churches ) there is a spirit of hubris and pride which according to God's word and the testimony demonstrated by the life of our Saviour Jesus Christ , God despises. Although it has happened so gradually over the generations that we have not noticed, quite frankly we ( professing christians ) do not love our own children. We send them to pre-school and then to public or christian schools with the understanding that they need a "good" education. I ask you to what end? So they can learn to make themselves of no reputation like our Lord ? So they can learn to lose their lives ? No , I think it is so they can pursue the riches of this world. I say this I hope as an observation and not as a judgement, ( God knows my heart ) but I do not see any difference in President Trump and President Obama. Which one is lowly and meek ? Which one despises mammon and loves God ? Which one has lost all that they might win Christ as Paul said ? Another part I believe of the deception is the fact that Americans think America is somehow special. We were formed in much deception and broken treaties , greed for land ( like Ahab and Jezzabel regarding Naboth's vineyard - the concept of manifest destiny ) and then finally bloodshed and rebellion against the King of England. We are and will reap what we sowed . Although our brother Paul warned us in Romans 16:17 to mark those who cause divisions contrary to the gospel and avoid them, we did not but embraced them as heroes and patriots. ( This country's founding fathers like Jefferson and Madison , etc. were deist/humanist and influenced by Voltaire and Locke. ) Not a criticism but I believe their intent was to form a secular government where everyone's heart was joined together for a common cause, The rights of Man not the exhalation of God's Son , Jesus Christ. We are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers ( believers that believe Christ is the messiah) but yet many Godly took up arms with unbelievers to kill their fellow professing Christians since they resided in England. How is that following Christ ? How is that loving my enemy ? So , you see the deception has been going on for so long many do not recognize it and their pride or covetousness keeps them from admitting it and repenting. What I believe is different is the widespread rebellion against the words of Christ by the followers of Christ. We love stuff and money more than our own children , otherwise we would raise them to be Godly with the hope of eternal life. Sadly many men will not advocate this because their wives would revolt. It is far easier to spend our time accusing the liberals than to repent. Kona , please forgive the length of this but follow the TRUTH and ask God for a love for the TRUTH. It will have a cost. It always has. Do not expect popularity. The truth has never been popular and was often despised and rejected . He has not changed. Man has .
 
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Douggg

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Hi brother Kona ...as much as I am able by God's grace , I am also trying to put things into perspective. There is much I do not understand and the things which I think I understand I may not be seeing clearly. I am not interested in the popular view and my own opinion is much like the question, what is my opinion of gravity or sunshine. The answer is , gravity does not care what my opinion is of it and neither does sunshine. It is my belief that God cares nothing for my opinion ( for which I am thankful) He is God . He is and He will do what He will do. Much of the debates surrounding who is the anti-christ is speculation. In the days of the early church it was stated " there are many anti-christ" as I believe there has been in every generation. It has been the end of the ages since Christ' resurrection. What I believe is different now than at other times is the amount of delusion from believers who profess God but by their actions deny him. Particularly in many American churches ( I can only speak of American churches ) there is a spirit of hubris and pride which according to God's word and the testimony demonstrated by the life of our Saviour Jesus Christ , God despises. Although it has happened so gradually over the generations that we have not noticed, quite frankly we ( professing christians ) do not love our own children. We send them to pre-school and then to public or christian schools with the understanding that they need a "good" education. I ask you to what end? So they can learn to make themselves of no reputation like our Lord ? So they can learn to lose their lives ? No , I think it is so they can pursue the riches of this world. I say this I hope as an observation and not as a judgement, ( God knows my heart ) but I do not see any difference in President Trump and President Obama. Which one is lowly and meek ? Which one despises mammon and loves God ? Which one has lost all that they might win Christ as Paul said ? Another part I believe of the deception is the fact that Americans think America is somehow special. We were formed in much deception and broken treaties , greed for land ( like Ahab and Jezzabel regarding Naboth's vineyard - the concept of manifest destiny ) and then finally bloodshed and rebellion against the King of England. We are and will reap what we sowed . Although our brother Paul warned us in Romans 16:17 to mark those who cause divisions contrary to the gospel and avoid them, we did not but embraced them as heroes and patriots. ( This country's founding fathers like Jefferson and Madison , etc. were deist/humanist and influenced by Voltaire and Locke. ) Not a criticism but I believe their intent was to form a secular government where everyone's heart was joined together for a common cause, The rights of Man not the exhalation of God's Son , Jesus Christ. We are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers ( believers that believe Christ is the messiah) but yet many Godly took up arms with unbelievers to kill their fellow professing Christians since they resided in England. How is that following Christ ? How is that loving my enemy ? So , you see the deception has been going on for so long many do not recognize it and their pride or covetousness keeps them from admitting it and repenting. What I believe is different is the widespread rebellion against the words of Christ by the followers of Christ. We love stuff and money more than our own children , otherwise we would raise them to be Godly with the hope of eternal life. Sadly many men will not advocate this because their wives would revolt. It is far easier to spend our time accusing the liberals than to repent. Kona , please forgive the length of this but follow the TRUTH and ask God for a love for the TRUTH. It will have a cost. It always has. Do not expect popularity. The truth has never been popular and was often despised and rejected . He has not changed. Man has .
Hi NeedyFollower, if you break your posts into smaller paragraphs, it makes it easier to read.
 
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Jezmeyah

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Trump is the rider on the white horse (Rev 6:2). He is the first Trump/Pence (Rev 8:7), and the madness from the left and right is the result of Revelation 16:2.

The
Red horse is coming soon. The fatal wound will soon be healed.

Seems like things are getting more tense around the world, and a sense of people being at a spiritual crossroads because of this man. Things are in motion, rumours of wars, families divided. Dangerous times! But I wouldn't want to be alive at any other time.

What are your thoughts on my interpretations that Trump is one of the four horseman of the apocalypse?
The person described in Rev.6:2 is referring to a world ruler, as also described by Daniel in his book, chap.7:7-8 who autonomously assumes office by conquest, by overtaking three rulers of those nations. Such a ruler is not of a democratic society.

By comparison, Donald Trump, the new president of the United States was voted into office by the people of this recently demonstrated majority republican democratic nation.

Further, the geographical area of prophecy is not America, but that of the Mediterranean sea and nations surrounding it. The same area of previous historical empires.

The first identified in Daniel's book was Babylon, then Medio-Persia, then Greece, then Rome. And Biblical prophecy scholars identify the next empire to be revived Rome.

The person described by Rev.6:2, is the yet to be revealed, anti-christ.

In all points, Donald Trump just doesn't fit that description. So, if you are looking for the anti-christ, then go live in Europe. Because that's where the real man of Rev.6:2 will show up.
 
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Abraxos

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The person described in Rev.6:2 is referring to a world ruler, as also described by Daniel in his book, chap.7:7-8 who autonomously assumes office by conquest, by overtaking three rulers of those nations. Such a ruler is not of a democratic society.

By comparison, Donald Trump, the new president of the United States was voted into office by the people of this recently demonstrated majority republican democratic nation.

Further, the geographical area of prophecy is not America, but that of the Mediterranean sea and nations surrounding it. The same area of previous historical empires.

The first identified in Daniel's book was Babylon, then Medio-Persia, then Greece, then Rome. And Biblical prophecy scholars identify the next empire to be revived Rome.

The person described by Rev.6:2, is the yet to be revealed, anti-christ.

In all points, Donald Trump just doesn't fit that description. So, if you are looking for the anti-christ, then go live in Europe. Because that's where the real man of Rev.6:2 will show up.
I probably should have clarified in the OP that I do not much focus on searching for the Antichrist. The OP was an invitation to anyone here that shared in my perspective that these are unprecedented times we are living in. Though we do not know the day or the hour, Jesus did warn us to be aware of the signs of the times so that we are not like the 10 virgins who fell asleep. (Matthew 25:1-13) [An interesting point in verse six, is that there seems to be a forerunner that alerted the coming of the Christ. Similar to John the Baptist.]

As I mentioned before, I see no good scriptural reason to believe that the white horse rider (Rev 6:2) is the Antichrist. The only reason it is prevalent in a few Christian churches is because it's based on a popularised version of the four horseman of the Apocalypse going back to the renaissance era.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find your reasoning not all that compelling. For example, a ruler is a ruler regardless of the politics. It's written that it is God who ordains world leaders (Daniel 5:21), and I see no reason why Trump would be excluded from that.
America as we know is the most powerful country in the world today, I see no good reason to believe that it isn't somehow included in End-times prophecy.
 
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I probably should have clarified in the OP that I do not much focus on searching for the Antichrist. The OP was an invitation to anyone here that shared in my perspective that these are unprecedented times we are living in. Though we do not know the day or the hour, Jesus did warn us to be aware of the signs of the times so that we are not like the 10 virgins who fell asleep. (Matthew 25:1-13) [An interesting point in verse six, is that there seems to be a forerunner that alerted the coming of the Christ. Similar to John the Baptist.]

As I mentioned before, I see no good scriptural reason to believe that the white horse rider (Rev 6:2) is the Antichrist. The only reason it is prevalent in a few Christian churches is because it's based on a popularised version of the four horseman of the Apocalypse going back to the renaissance era.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find your reasoning not all that compelling. For example, a ruler is a ruler regardless of the politics. It's written that it is God who ordains world leaders (Daniel 5:21), and I see no reason why Trump would be excluded from that.
America as we know is the most powerful country in the world today, I see no good reason to believe that it isn't somehow included in End-times prophecy.
America has been described.. by a multitude of Christians so I won't try to remember any one name for you since they all say the same thing.. and identified as an offshoot of "the young lions" of scripture. That would refer to Britain which is itself a "coastland" nation.

In any case, America is not one of the ancient nations. Which all the former empires have in common. Which disqualifies America. No matter how "great" she has been throughout her existence. America is not the homeland from which arises the anti-christ.

I believe that America has it's legacy in being One Nation Under God which has it's renown in upholding the word of God, as well as spreading the Gospel to other nations. That is more pleasing to God than having a far less honor in being a nation from which the anti-christ comes.

You assume that I give my information according to "a popularized version of the four horseman of the Apocalypse". But if that's where I got my information, I would have said so. However, except for the general information from many Christian commentaries which identify America as "a young lion", I've not quoted anything but the Bible itself.

These are the good scriptural reasons given concerning the anti-christ. The Rev.6:2 scripture is a pictorial view of the verse in 2 Thes. 2:6, 8. Which also matches with the OT prophetic scriptures in Daniel concerning the last world ruler. In all those cases, he comes upon the scene.

However, as you have demonstrated, if you do not recognize their importance, then you do end up supposing that the white horse rider of Rev.6:2 is Donald Trump. Just as many others were proved wrong when they have stated that each new President come into office is that rider.

It seems to be the opinion of many Christians that "this great nation of America" should be worthy of a big mention in the Bible, and have a leading role in the end times.

But think about it, if not for Jesus giving mention of the good Samaritan's actions.. the man who owned the inn would not have cared as long as he got paid for the use of the room, so only the man he helped would have known about it. Would anyone think that the good Samaritan helped that man in need with the idea that he'd get notable mention by Jesus? None should think that.

But then, why do Christian Americans think that America should have a staring role in the Endtimes? Even if it would be to play "The Bad Guy"?

Whatever godly righteous thing that is done in America, the credit goes to God. We will be only too happy that He chose us by which to do His gracious, and merciful will toward others. And, at the end of the day, at the Bema seat, we'll all get what we might think of in our appropriately humble minds, that He rewarded us far more than we think we really deserve. Not that we really "deserve" anything so astoundingly good.

"Lord, what did we do that you would reward us? When did we do anything notable?

And He will say, "When you have done it to the least of these, you have done it unto Me."
 
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Abraxos

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America has been described.. by a multitude of Christians so I won't try to remember any one name for you since they all say the same thing.. and identified as an offshoot of "the young lions" of scripture. That would refer to Britain which is itself a "coastland" nation.

In any case, America is not one of the ancient nations. Which all the former empires have in common. Which disqualifies America. No matter how "great" she has been throughout her existence. America is not the homeland from which arises the anti-christ.

I believe that America has it's legacy in being One Nation Under God which has it's renown in upholding the word of God, as well as spreading the Gospel to other nations. That is more pleasing to God than having a far less honor in being a nation from which the anti-christ comes.

You assume that I give my information according to "a popularized version of the four horseman of the Apocalypse". But if that's where I got my information, I would have said so. However, except for the general information from many Christian commentaries which identify America as "a young lion", I've not quoted anything but the Bible itself.

These are the good scriptural reasons given concerning the anti-christ. The Rev.6:2 scripture is a pictorial view of the verse in 2 Thes. 2:6, 8. Which also matches with the OT prophetic scriptures in Daniel concerning the last world ruler. In all those cases, he comes upon the scene.

However, as you have demonstrated, if you do not recognize their importance, then you do end up supposing that the white horse rider of Rev.6:2 is Donald Trump. Just as many others were proved wrong when they have stated that each new President come into office is that rider.

It seems to be the opinion of many Christians that "this great nation of America" should be worthy of a big mention in the Bible, and have a leading role in the end times.

But think about it, if not for Jesus giving mention of the good Samaritan's actions.. the man who owned the inn would not have cared as long as he got paid for the use of the room, so only the man he helped would have known about it. Would anyone think that the good Samaritan helped that man in need with the idea that he'd get notable mention by Jesus? None should think that.

But then, why do Christian Americans think that America should have a staring role in the Endtimes? Even if it would be to play "The Bad Guy"?

Whatever godly righteous thing that is done in America, the credit goes to God. We will be only too happy that He chose us by which to do His gracious, and merciful will toward others. And, at the end of the day, at the Bema seat, we'll all get what we might think of in our appropriately humble minds, that He rewarded us far more than we think we really deserve. Not that we really "deserve" anything so astoundingly good.

"Lord, what did we do that you would reward us? When did we do anything notable?

And He will say, "When you have done it to the least of these, you have done it unto Me."
It seems you are more interested in the Antichrist than I ever was.

Why do you think Revelation 6:2 is in connection to 2 Thessalonians 2:6, 8? It appears you have the presupposition that the white horse rider was the Antichrist to begin with, which doesn't bode well for scriptural interpretations. I'm still not seeing any compelling reason to believe the white horse rider is the Antichrist.

In any case, America is not one of the ancient nations. Which all the former empires have in common. Which disqualifies America. No matter how "great" she has been throughout her existence. America is not the homeland from which arises the anti-christ.
I do not think that is a good reason to dismiss America if we are on the same page regarding that we are in the end-times. The ancient nations you mentioned are also mentioned in Revelation 13, though slightly different and as one creature. But there is also another beast that comes out of the earth (Rev 13:11), that is not part of the ancient beast you mentioned. This beast is peculiar in it's description. If "sea" is represented as multitudes, nations and languages (Rev 17:15), then "earth" would likely mean "sparse". This nation began in a relatively sparse area, but resonated enough authority and influence to be on par with the dragon. And what nation today has the power to influence or give power to the ancient beasts you mentioned?

Again, I'm not saying this is America, but I'm only pointing out that there is mention of a nation that is separate from the ancient nations you pointed out.
 
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Jezmeyah

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It seems you are more interested in the Antichrist than I ever was.
You posted it first, and just because I respond, you say that I'm more interested in the anti-christ than you are? That's just dodging your own interest.
Why do you think Revelation 6:2 is in connection to 2 Thessalonians 2:6, 8? It appears you have the presupposition that the white horse rider was the Antichrist to begin with, which doesn't bode well for scriptural interpretations. I'm still not seeing any compelling reason to believe the white horse rider is the Antichrist.
A presupposition is something that is assumed at the beginning of an argument.

You posted first with your presupposition. I responded with Biblical reasons why I disagreed with what you said. My disagreeing does not make what I said a presupposition.

The most that you could call what I've posted, is a debunking of your presupposition.
I do not think that is a good reason to dismiss America if we are on the same page regarding that we are in the end-times.
Putting Donald Trump into the pages of the end-times means that we are not on the same page.

Although, yes, we are both talking about the end-times. However, your theological framework is lassoing what's future and pulling it to what's present.. the future is getting close on it's own, but it ain't here yet.
The ancient nations you mentioned are also mentioned in Revelation 13, though slightly different and as one creature.
But there is also another beast that comes out of the earth (Rev 13:11), that is not part of the ancient beast you mentioned. This beast is peculiar in it's description. If "sea" is represented as multitudes, nations and languages (Rev 17:15), then "earth" would likely mean "sparse".
The word translated "earth" means "land", as in the particular land where the "beast empire" comes from. In the case of the Bible talking about known nations and their locations, the word "earth" is too broad for use since it implies the entire planet we all live on.

Your guess with "sea" versus "sparse" looks like to me that you are trying to be poetic like Proverbs is by comparing one line with the other.

It doesn't mean to imply that whereas "the sea" is multiple people, that the land is "sparse". But if sparse, then I have to ask, "sparse" in what particular way? Finish your speculation at least.
This nation began in a relatively sparse area, but resonated enough authority and influence to be on par with the dragon.
That doesn't describe America, in case you're mildly implying it.

In keeping with the prophetical and historical geographical spotlight always shining in the Middle East area, it would be way wrong to think that it in anyway is talking about Northern America.

The only place where a land is considered to be sparse, is the Middle Eastern area.

While, the sea would have to refer to the Mediterranean area, where those ancient empires are located.

Through the European Union the Middle East nations have gained political power, as well as military power or just plain terrorism tactics.

Have you noticed that a particular flag has a red dragon on it? Or did you knowingly refer to that above?
And what nation today has the power to influence or give power to the ancient beasts you mentioned?
The European Union.

America has very little power in the EU. Do you remember when national leaders stood at the podium and openly mocked our then President Bush?
When Obama was President he showed very little political or military power, but merely supported troops in the Middle East when there was terrorism over there.

The EU accumulated their power because the various countries united in the plan of a one world government.
In being united, the Daniel dreams depict each empire to be represented by a known animal. Even as each empire in the historical archeological discoveries display an animal to stand for that empire.

As America uses the Eagle.

In prophecy being consistent as it is, if America were truly involved, then the anti-christ "beast" would be identified as our bird of prey. So again, America is not the proud host of the anti-christ.
Again, I'm not saying this is America, but I'm only pointing out that there is mention of a nation that is separate from the ancient nations you pointed out.
The reason why the final empire is separate from the description of the others, is that the final one is a conglomeration of the previous beast animals written of in Daniel.

The grotesque conglomeration which indicates the unity of the nations (such as the European Union) for lack of a better example. Do you remember the uproar in the news of Britain breaking away from the EU? There's every possibility that a few more will break away.

That will set up for an upcoming "little horn", to come on the scene, who makes itself bigger by gaining conquest over three, which makes "the little horn", a big horn. In that case, size really does matter. The next office to seek would be "The World Ruler".

The prophetic last empire being separate from the others, does not mean that it's referring to America. How could it be? There was no America at the time of Daniel. Not only that, but America's location is too far away from that prophetic spotlight.

The conglomerate beast, and Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue's feet/toes are a mixture of iron and clay.. which is describing the same final empire.

The EU is both socialistic and militant. Weak and strong. Iron and clay.
 
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