Domestic Discipline

[WalksWithChrist]

Its funny, regardless of what my comments might be, people can be judgemental and not putting things in perspective. I have had my issues with some posters who made negative comments about people with disabilities and not many healthy posters come in to defend the disabilities. Back to the topic, I disagree with that particular website and perhaps borderline sinful. We should voice our opinions why some of these activities are wrong. All I am saying is that we just need to be careful on making quick judgement and how we word our statements as I have seen some words been said that should not have been said. I have seen many people who make quick ignorant judgements regarding people with disabilities.

[OFFTOPIC]I pity the fool who makes bad comments about the disabled.[/OFFTOPIC]

 

[Johnnz]

The whole concept of domestic discipline is sick. Why is it only women (and children) who are subjected to discipline?

Those who teach the wifely submission thing are usually pretty hot on hierarchy - God, pastor, husband, wife. Quite unbiblical of course, buy its disciples cannot be convinced otherwise. Evil always tends towards dogmatism and authoritarianism.

Are husbands so wise, mature, and Christlike that they have no faults? Whose husband regularly goes to their pastor or church leadership, asks for them to appraise him, and without question subjects himself to correction and discipline i.e. some form of punishment? Yet, these same men assume their right to be right enough to punish their wivers for being wrong!!!!

The whole principle is demonic to the core - there is inequality of treatment between the sexes, it reinforces personal power, it is self righteous and judgemenatl of another by virtue merely of position, not by the validity of their viewpoint, and one person's assessment is enforced upon another, whether they agree or not. Look at any dictator, ancient or modern, and you will see all these characterictics exhibited in the way they ruled.

Jesus said Matt 7:15-20 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit , but a bad tree bears bad fruit . A good tree cannot bear bad fruit , and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit . Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. NIV

None of the characteristics I have mentioned exhibit the humbleness of the suffering servant which are manifested in the fruit of the Spirit.

John
NZ

 

[MoodyBlue]

A man here stated, "what, no men replies"

I have noticed when topics such as this come up, there's very little outrage from the men, or dialogue. Do you think bc it's a 'womans issue', or is it, bc they don't find it as disturbing as us womenfolk do?

Check out my post, it was #5. Quite frankly, I find this thread so disturbing, I haven't been able to find the words to make any further remarks. The whole concept of "DD" strikes me as completely wrong, an attempt to justify wife abuse. Twisted and sickening.

 

[christalee4]

only women replied ? (better watch my answer - LOL).
Yep I believe the problem in relationships / marriages today is that women have become too independent and not trusting a man enough to submit to him (as far as I have seen in relationships today : it is usually the man who gives in to please or calm the woman, but eventually he can take no more or she finds him a wimp and they split up).

I will only agree with part of your statement as it relates to abusive relationships, and not relationships in general. For the unsecure, cowardly bully who needs to control his woman and feel like he is the boss, yes, a woman who is "too independent" can certainly be a problem.

People who have a narrow, black and white view of men and women's emotional makeup tend to feel threatened or reject the notion that there is variety of emotions, responses and personality traits in each sex. As this happens naturally, why the need to "force" the role that men are the strong leaders who must make the decisions, and women are the meek helpers who serve? Furthermore, those same narrow views also espouse the belief that if either sex acts outside of those roles, then the woman is a castrating feminist who can't ever be satisfied (and who truly wants to be dominated), and the man is pansyfied wimp.

Also have you noticed that women are attracted to men who are arrogant and treat them badly and force them into submission. I always wondered why women make such bad choices in men and complain afterwards that he treated them badly.... It seems women are often mistaken in identifying this kind of behaviour as the characteristics of a strong male.

Yes, men are not the only victims of twisted wrongful upbringing. Sometimes it's easier to subject oneself to a trapped abusive situation, rather than assume the courage to take responsibility for one's self. And the further one stays in the abusive situation, the more one learns to feel that it's "normal".

In my own marriage I noticed that my wife often resists to submit and like to give me orders (giving friction) but when I take decisions and force her to accept them, she is thankfull for it afterwards.

I don't think spouses should be ordering each other about either, but if she asks you to take out garbage or hold the door while she carries in the groceries, is that giving orders? Hopefully not. And how do you "force" your wife to accept your decisions, if she resists often as you say? You say you don't use physical force - no slaps or arm twisting - but what do you do to wear down her resistance? Seductive persuasion? A loud forceful tone of voice? Yelling? Punishing silence? A "look"? Threats of a temper tantrum or throwing things to get your point across?

PS I don't think of myself as a chauvinist but don't like being submissive to a woman and hey, I married a women who is quite a feminist

.

It's not like there is only a choice of being submissive or dominating, all the time, 7 days a week. There is always a bit of give and take in a relationship, but it doesn't always have to be all one or the other. Surely, if your wife is the feminist you say she is, you value her opinions and her mind. Otherwise, you would have married someone like one of those poor sick women who signed the Domestic Discipline agreement. But perhaps the victory isn't as fun with someone who is totally submissive.

 

[christalee4]

A man here stated, "what, no men replies"

I have noticed when topics such as this come up, there's very little outrage from the men, or dialogue. Do you think bc it's a 'womans issue', or is it, bc they don't find it as disturbing as us womenfolk do?

I am sure the menfolk find it just as disturbing as we do. Is it a vague collective guilt for the sex that keeps them mainly silent about it? I notice also - and I want to thank those who did this - that women responding to this thread bring up a plethora of experiences with abuse, either in past relationships, or who know of someone close who was physically and mentally abused.

I will say as well that I was physically and sexually abused in my first marriage. I was young, and for a time, thought that it was the way it was supposed to be, that it was perhaps my fault for not being a good enough wife. It was a shameful secret back then, just as it is a secret for many, even in the best of families.

I hope that men and women who see this, and who perhaps have seen or heard evidence of abuse in a relationship, will not look aside. The common reaction is, "It's not our business", "There are two sides to a story", "They'll work it out.", "We don't want to involve ourselves in this mess." Just praying over it isn't enough either. Get involved, help the victim and let the abuser know that it's not all right.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

I replied with "Oh for the love of Bob." This was because I couldn't think of anything to say to something so ridiculous.
Truth be told I think this is absolutely evil. I think it encourages abuse and denigrates women, who are quite capable to think for themselves.
This is vomitously chauvanistic.
Advancing this point of view as biblically supported I think is satanic.

 

[Latreia]

The whole concept of domestic discipline is sick. Why is it only women (and children) who are subjected to discipline?

Those who teach the wifely submission thing are usually pretty hot on hierarchy - God, pastor, husband, wife. Quite unbiblical of course, buy its disciples cannot be convinced otherwise. Evil always tends towards dogmatism and authoritarianism.

Are husbands so wise, mature, and Christlike that they have no faults? Whose husband regularly goes to their pastor or church leadership, asks for them to appraise him, and without question subjects himself to correction and discipline i.e. some form of punishment? Yet, these same men assume their right to be right enough to punish their wivers for being wrong!!!!

The whole principle is demonic to the core - there is inequality of treatment between the sexes, it reinforces personal power, it is self righteous and judgemenatl of another by virtue merely of position, not by the validity of their viewpoint, and one person's assessment is enforced upon another, whether they agree or not. Look at any dictator, ancient or modern, and you will see all these characterictics exhibited in the way they ruled.

Jesus said Matt 7:15-20 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit , but a bad tree bears bad fruit . A good tree cannot bear bad fruit , and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit . Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. NIV

None of the characteristics I have mentioned exhibit the humbleness of the suffering servant which are manifested in the fruit of the Spirit.

John
NZ

Johnnz, I have quoted your post in support of your comments. Since you look to the Holy Bible for truth, I hope to contribute truth to this thread with these verses:

Matthew 7:1-3 (New International Version)
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:1-3 (Amplified Bible)
1 DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
2 For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
3 Why do you [a]stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother's eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam [c]of timber that is in your own eye?



1 Corinthians 4:2-4(Amplified Bible)

2 Moreover, it is [essentially] required of stewards that a man should be found faithful [proving himself worthy of trust].
3 But [as for me personally] it matters very little to me that I should be put on trial by you [on this point], and that you or any other human tribunal should investigate and question and cross-question me. I do not even put myself on trial and judge myself.
4 I am not conscious of anything against myself, and I feel blameless; but I am not vindicated and acquitted before God on that account. It is the Lord [Himself] Who examines and judges me.


1 Corinthians 6:2 (Amplified Bible)


2 Do you not know that the saints (the believers) will [one day] judge and govern the world? And if the world [itself] is to be judged and ruled by you, are you unworthy and incompetent to try [such petty matters] of the smallest courts of justice?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Johnnz, I have quoted your post in support of your comments. Since you look to the Holy Bible for truth, I hope to contribute truth to this thread with these verses:

Matthew 7:1-3 (New International Version)
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:1-3 (Amplified Bible)
1 DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
2 For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.
3 Why do you [a]stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother's eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam [c]of timber that is in your own eye?



1 Corinthians 4:2-4(Amplified Bible)

2 Moreover, it is [essentially] required of stewards that a man should be found faithful [proving himself worthy of trust].
3 But [as for me personally] it matters very little to me that I should be put on trial by you [on this point], and that you or any other human tribunal should investigate and question and cross-question me. I do not even put myself on trial and judge myself.
4 I am not conscious of anything against myself, and I feel blameless; but I am not vindicated and acquitted before God on that account. It is the Lord [Himself] Who examines and judges me.


1 Corinthians 6:2 (Amplified Bible)


2 Do you not know that the saints (the believers) will [one day] judge and govern the world? And if the world [itself] is to be judged and ruled by you, are you unworthy and incompetent to try [such petty matters] of the smallest courts of justice?

Amen... That's what I was trying to say in my previous posts. Judgemental is a problem. I may not like what I saw, but its not my place to judge.

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

I believe that submission is something a woman does. If her husband forces her to do it while she is unwilling, than it is not true submission. My hubby does tell me to be quiet or go to bed, but he does not drag me up the stairs, whip me into shape, etc. It is his responsibility to lead, BUT it is MY responsobility to follow. Just like God does not force us to be good, but gives us free choice. God tells us what is right and wrong and what we have to do, but He does not force us into compliance.

 

[christalee4]

I believe that submission is something a woman does. If her husband forces her to do it while she is unwilling, than it is not true submission. My hubby does tell me to be quiet or go to bed, but he does not drag me up the stairs, whip me into shape, etc. It is his responsibility to lead, BUT it is MY responsobility to follow. Just like God does not force us to be good, but gives us free choice. God tells us what is right and wrong and what we have to do, but He does not force us into compliance.

It's good that your husband does not need to drag you up the stairs or use physical force.

However, what is troubling, is that your husband must issue orders for you to be quiet or go to bed.

Do you not see that as problematic, in terms of relationship contact? Do you honestly think that men must issue orders and women must follow them meekly and voluntarily, even when they may resist doing so?

And if a woman DOES resist following an order, what is the Husband, as the leader of the household, supposed to do? Does he yell, use verbal control or threats, use the cold silence, or let the Wife know with a look that she may reap the punishment later?

 

[Leanna]

I believe that submission is something a woman does. If her husband forces her to do it while she is unwilling, than it is not true submission. My hubby does tell me to be quiet or go to bed, but he does not drag me up the stairs, whip me into shape, etc. It is his responsibility to lead, BUT it is MY responsobility to follow. Just like God does not force us to be good, but gives us free choice. God tells us what is right and wrong and what we have to do, but He does not force us into compliance.

This is not the same as if you needed a daily maintenance spanking, and your husband had a need to give one.

 

[Leanna]

Amen... That's what I was trying to say in my previous posts. Judgemental is a problem. I may not like what I saw, but its not my place to judge.

Well yeah we'll have to disagree then.

If my son grows up and wants to beat his wife daily and call it "domestic discipline" that will not be okay with me. There's a difference between "judging" on other people's heart issues and "planks" and allowing abuse to happen and saying its not one's place to judge. I think it is one's place to defend the weak and counsel the confused. If not us, who will? You can't live a healthy life in DD and if someone close to me were involved I would do whatever I could to help them get out of it.

 

[luvmyhubby]

No doubt my "reputation" will go way down from this but I think y'all are being pretty judgmental. You don't know what goes on in the homes of those who practice DD. You don't know how the wives feel about it. You are making judgments about people who have chosen a lifestyle that suits their needs based on one part of one article, not based on hearing about any experiences. My husband and I practice Christian Domestic Discipline. It has made our marriage very strong and I willingly submit to it. I am not forced, I am not "beaten" and I am probably the most blessed wife on the face of the earth. I respect my husband because he takes me in hand when needed. And I love him for it. Now you can disagree with me all you want and you can tear me apart, but the fact remains fact - we have a love for each other that is not going to die. So quit judging what other people do in the privacy of their home. No one asked any of y'all to adopt this lifestyle or preached to you that it is the only way. That article comes from a blog that is meant for those who are interested in the lifestyle, not for those who want to berate others. Where is the Christian love and tolerance in your comments. It sure did not flow out to me!!!

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

No doubt my "reputation" will go way down from this but I think y'all are being pretty judgmental. You don't know what goes on in the homes of those who practice DD. You don't know how the wives feel about it. You are making judgments about people who have chosen a lifestyle that suits their needs based on one part of one article, not based on hearing about any experiences. My husband and I practice Christian Domestic Discipline. It has made our marriage very strong and I willingly submit to it. I am not forced, I am not "beaten" and I am probably the most blessed wife on the face of the earth. I respect my husband because he takes me in hand when needed. And I love him for it. Now you can disagree with me all you want and you can tear me apart, but the fact remains fact - we have a love for each other that is not going to die. So quit judging what other people do in the privacy of their home. No one asked any of y'all to adopt this lifestyle or preached to you that it is the only way. That article comes from a blog that is meant for those who are interested in the lifestyle, not for those who want to berate others. Where is the Christian love and tolerance in your comments. It sure did not flow out to me!!!

Hello, it sounds like you just may not be as deep into it, as other couples. If you aren't in tears bc he's beating you, or humiliated bc he makes you sit in a corner naked w/ company, you may not be where some of these women are.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I believe that submission is something a woman does. If her husband forces her to do it while she is unwilling, than it is not true submission. My hubby does tell me to be quiet or go to bed, but he does not drag me up the stairs, whip me into shape, etc. It is his responsibility to lead, BUT it is MY responsobility to follow. Just like God does not force us to be good, but gives us free choice. God tells us what is right and wrong and what we have to do, but He does not force us into compliance.

Submission in most of the world is by force. Submission in the Bible is overwhelmingly by force. If you look at your situation and say everyone should be the same way because you think its the way to go you will become a victim of cultural elitism. American men are among the most disrespected by their wives in the world. The fruits of this are many families broken beyond recognition or repair. This is not a strength of our society.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Amen... That's what I was trying to say in my previous posts. Judgemental is a problem. I may not like what I saw, but its not my place to judge.

Holding fellow Christians accountable for questionable or wrong actions isn't judging. Just my opinion.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Holding fellow Christians accountable for questionable or wrong actions isn't judging. Just my opinion.

Even when there is a "gray area" of a topic such as this? To some this may not be sin, to others it may be sin. I have learned by trials and errors that we are to be careful how we judge others. We can "assume" that what is going on is sinful but we "don't know" their hearts and what is going on. God only can judge in that area because He can see our hearts. We don't. We look from the outside point of view, based on "appearance" or "action" without seeing the whole picture. We need to focus on what's clear in the Bible, we can judge fellow Christians and hold them accountable to their actions however when grace is involve and there's no clear defintion of what goes on in the privacy of a marriage (just between husband & wife).

 

[Mirelys]

It's not a gray area though. The articles in that link are explicitly violent and nonconsensual (yeah, they say it's consensual, and then they talk about how to restrain and subdue a struggling woman). That is clearly wrong, and it doesn't make it less wrong that it is within a marriage.

 

[JimfromOhio]

It's not a gray area though. The articles in that link are explicitly violent and nonconsensual (yeah, they say it's consensual, and then they talk about how to restrain and subdue a struggling woman). That is clearly wrong, and it doesn't make it less wrong that it is within a marriage.

Then, please back it up with scriptures rather than "opinion". Show why its wrong. Christian sex experts could not.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

Where is the Christian love and tolerance in your comments. It sure did not flow out to me!!!

It is because of our Christian love for you and for all other women in your situation that we are concerned about this issue and feel compelled to point out the error in this lifestyle.

I will not apologize for saying that this lifestyle is not what God intends marriage to be.

May God bless you and protect you from harm.