Doing greater deeds than Jesus?

HatGuy

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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!
 

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So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?
At the very least, there are more of us than His single body, so "greater" could mean "more instances..."

Also (IMX), some circles are more resistant to unprecedented works, that verse notwithstanding...

Read about Smiths Wigglesworth PUNCHING people when he prayed for their healing, even going so far as KICKING a deformed baby...! (Talk about unprecedented...)
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!

Greater in number, cumulatively. The works of God through the Church since the Apostles, through the empowering of the Spirit since the day of Pentecost. Not that the works of the Church are greater than the works of Christ, but that they are of greater number, because the Spirit has been present and at work through the Church, the entire Mystical Body of Christ, since the beginning accomplishing the works of God. Consider how quickly the Gospel was spread within the lifetime of the Apostles, what began in Jerusalem was, in a few years, at the heart of the Roman Empire in Rome.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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HatGuy

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Greater in number, cumulatively. The works of God through the Church since the Apostles, through the empowering of the Spirit since the day of Pentecost. Not that the works of the Church are greater than the works of Christ, but that they are of greater number, because the Spirit has been present and at work through the Church, the entire Mystical Body of Christ, since the beginning accomplishing the works of God. Consider how quickly the Gospel was spread within the lifetime of the Apostles, what began in Jerusalem was, in a few years, at the heart of the Roman Empire in Rome.

-CryptoLutheran
Is there anything in the text / elsewhere when Jesus says this sort of thing that indicates that he means greater number?
 
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Sabertooth

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Is there anything in the text / elsewhere when Jesus says this sort of thing that indicates that he means greater number?
That certainly is encompassed in the term, but I don't think that is the "whole" of it. Elijah calling down fire from Heaven seems like a plausible example of a greater work (by the same Spirit).
 
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com7fy8

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Elijah calling down fire from Heaven seems like a plausible example of a greater work (by the same Spirit).
Well, Luke 9:53-56 says James and John asked Jesus if He wanted them to call down fire on ones who rejected Jesus. And Jesus did not talk as though He considered that that would be a greater work. Rather, He rebuked them and says He came to save people's lives, not to destroy them.

So . . . from this, may be we should see how greater works can be works of ministering for people to be saved and ministering them to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

Also, works can be greater because they would be greater once they were ministering in the Holy Spirit in God's love . . . not how they had been while walking with Jesus. Without love it profits nothing > 1 Corinthians 13. While with Jesus, the disciples could tend to tweek their egos, about the great works He did and had them doing. They could take it as meaning they had special status, instead of mainly being about loving.

Even so, the main question most people seem to mean is, does Jesus mean we children of God, now, will do greater visible miracles? Well . . . I am not aware of anyone doing obviously visible and greater miraculous things. And Jesus did His works right in the faces of people who were denying Him; so I understand He would have us doing what is not in secret, but right in the faces of evil and doubting people. But all I have seen are things which can be play-acted, or there are passed on claims about what happened somewhere else . . . nothing like a twisted crippled person from birth becoming perfectly formed, right in our faces, on TV.

But past performance and counterfeiting does not decide what is God's will. So . . . I am answering to God, about this, in prayer.
 
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Strong in Him

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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Greater in number.

Though he was God, Jesus was also a man, and limited to one time and place. Of course, we too can only be in one place at a time, but we can travel widely; take planes, boats, trains, buses to many places to preach the Gospel. We can also use the internet, send Bibles and Christian books electronically, and use things like Zoom, Face time and other things to meet other Christians and have prayer and fellowship. Or write blogs, articles, or Christian books.
Jesus is everywhere now, through his Spirit. He is in all of us as we go out to witness for him and take his light to the world.
 
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Amittai

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...

Also, works can be greater because they would be greater once they were ministering in the Holy Spirit in God's love . . . not how they had been while walking with Jesus. Without love it profits nothing > 1 Corinthians 13. While with Jesus, the disciples could tend to tweek their egos, about the great works He did and had them doing. They could take it as meaning they had special status, instead of mainly being about loving.

...

But past performance and counterfeiting does not decide what is God's will. So . . . I am answering to God, about this, in prayer.

This must be the core. He hadn't at that moment, ascending, distributed gifts differing. Now, these are not to be rationed by those lording it over us but, our fellow christians can cherish and recognise the unique combination of gifts in each, to bear fruit in qualities of preparedness.

I often see recent newcomers galloping in solid life. If we shared in encouraging them, we'll share in the crown that equates to their lasting work.

God is the only Being entitled to operate a pyramid scheme.:amen:
 
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Carl Emerson

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"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing

Let's not skim over this first statement.

The early church fathers said to the Romans that anyone claiming to be a true Christian will be able to cast out a demon...

Clearly the early church believers were exercising a faith rarely seen today.

Do we agree with what Jesus said above ???

What does it mean if these signs are absent in today's churches ???

Jesus is saying that this means folks are not believing in Him...
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!

I believe that Jesus means what he says, "we can do the same deeds that He did, and even in greater number" - it is a challenge for us to reach high. Sadly few of us, me included, are worthy enough to see these greater deeds.

I do know of one man David Hogan who trough his ministry in Mexico has seen many people raised from the dead, at last count I think it was 50 - 100. This is more than Jesus raised up. So we can say, Jesus words are true of that man's ministry. He has as Jesus said performed greater works, at least in number.
 
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BrotherJJ

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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!

My thoughts on John 14:12
Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
(NOTE: This scripture places more value on one soul then ALL the riches this world has to offer)

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(NOTE: I believe the greatest work any believer can do. Is lead a lost soul to God thru Christ.)

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(NOTE: Faith comes by hearing.)

1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
(NOTE: Paul calls Timothy HIS SON in the faith.)

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
(NOTE: He that converts/leads the sinner to God thru Christ. Save's a soul from death)

1 Corinthians 9:
19 Paul said, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
(NOTE: I for the gospel’s sake. That I might by all means, Gain more = save/lead/win souls to Christ)

20 Paul said, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
(NOTE: I for the gospel’s sake. That I might by all means, Gain/save/lead/win some Jewish souls to Christ)

Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
(NOTE: The jailer asked men, not God? What must I do to be saved?)

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
(NOTE: Men, not God, told the jailer. How to find God and how to save his soul)

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
(NOTE: And he that wins souls is wise)

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
(NOTE: """They""" that turn many to righteousness. Will receive an everlasting position)
 
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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!

As has been stated, it is a difference between quality and quantity. Is the quality of what we do going to be greater? No. We're not going to top the quality of his teachings, healings, or redemptive work, obviously.

But our Lord, during his ministry, was one person, limited in time and space as are all humans. We, the body of Christ, are a multitude, stretching across space and time. The emphasis then is on quantity, not quality.
 
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Sabertooth

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Well, Luke 9:53-56 says James and John asked Jesus if He wanted them to call down fire on ones who rejected Jesus. And Jesus did not talk as though He considered that that would be a greater work. Rather, He rebuked them and says He came to save people's lives, not to destroy them.
They were proposing judgment. Elijah only called down fire on a sacrificial altar & sacrifice, as a demonstration (that was followed by judgment). That would be the key difference.
 
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HatGuy

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For everyone saying 'quantity' - I'm not saying "no" to that, but I am asking, "quantity" in what? In miraculous healings etc? Because if so, we're still not seeing that. Or are we? Youtube isn't really enough for me to validate that direction.
 
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Sabertooth

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For everyone saying 'quantity' - I'm not saying "no" to that, but I am asking, "quantity" in what? In miraculous healings etc? Because if so, we're still not seeing that. Or are we?
There seems to be a notable increase during times of revival. IIUC, those are analogous to seasons.
 
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Hi guys,

In John 14:12, Jesus says this:

"I tell you the solemn truth, the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these, because I am going to the Father." (NET)

I understand that Him "going to the Father" implies that He will send His Spirit and empower us.

But, my question is: it seems to me no one has really DONE the kind of deeds / works Jesus did, never mind GREATER works.

So what is Jesus saying here? Thoughts?

Go!

The Greek word used here is mégas which can also refer to the amount or number of deeds.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For everyone saying 'quantity' - I'm not saying "no" to that, but I am asking, "quantity" in what? In miraculous healings etc? Because if so, we're still not seeing that. Or are we? Youtube isn't really enough for me to validate that direction.

The word miraculous is not in the Greek text. He is simply speaking of works that He did. So it is probable that the apostles did more works than Jesus did because of the amount of time they had compared to the amount of time Jesus had.


“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:12‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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public hermit

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I am asking, "quantity" in what? In miraculous healings etc? Because if so, we're still not seeing that. Or are we?

What's the general thrust of Jesus ministry/service? He lived/died a life of self-giving love, proclaiming/teaching God's kingdom, and helping those in need. In general, that's the quantity that is multiplied exponentially by the body of Christ. Presumably.
 
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BNR32FAN

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What's the general thrust of Jesus ministry/service? He lived/died a life of self-giving love, proclaiming/teaching God's kingdom, and helping those in need. In general, that's the quantity that is multiplied exponentially by the body of Christ. Presumably.

I think it’s his bible version that is throwing off his understanding of this scripture because the version he quoted adds the word miraculous to Jesus’ works which probably leads him to believe that Jesus is speaking of miracles and not just the works that He did in general.
 
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I think it’s his bible version that is throwing off his understanding of this scripture because the version he quoted adds the word miraculous to Jesus’ works which probably leads him to believe that Jesus is speaking of miracles and not just the works that He did in general.

Thanks, I didn't catch that. You're right, there is no "miraculous," only "works" or "greater works" in the text. I wonder why the NET takes that liberty?
 
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