• Do not add comments to posts once the thread has been closed for review. A closed thread means there should not be any further comment. Commenting in closed threads can result in a ban.

zippy2006

Dragonsworn
Nov 9, 2013
5,981
2,992
✟200,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Personal Assent

There are three basic positions that can be taken with respect to personal assent: assent, denial, and indifference. For example, consider the proposition, "It will rain tomorrow." We have three basic options: assent to the proposition and assert that it is true; deny the proposition and assert that it is false; or take up a stance of indifference (or ignorance) and neither assert that it is true nor that it is false.


Ecclesial Assent

There are three basic positions that the Church takes up with respect to corporate assent, and they correlate to the above three positions. They are: dogma, heresy, and theological opinion. Dogmas require assent, heresies require denial, and theological opinions require neither assent nor denial. For example, take the proposition, "Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man." We have three basic options: assent, denial, and indifference. Since this proposition is a dogma of Christianity, assent is required, denial is heresy, and indifference is not an option.

A dogma is something that is essential to Christianity, and a heresy is something that is contradictory to Christianity. The logical relation of dogma and heresy to Christianity is as follows:

1. If someone is a Christian, then they must assent to the dogmas.*
2. If someone formally assents to a heresy, then they are no longer Christian.​

*At least implicitly.


Erroneous Modern Tendencies

In modernity there have been two erroneous and common tendencies. The first is religious indifferentism. This is the view that there are no dogmas, there are no heresies, everything is a matter of theological opinion, and people can believe whatever they want while still calling themselves "Christian." The problem with this error at the most general level is that the religion becomes contentless, without form or substance. If people can believe whatever they want while still calling themselves "Christian," then the name "Christian" becomes meaningless. The more specific problem is that the Good News becomes emptied of substance.

The second erroneous modern tendency is a kind of progressive reversal. This is the view that some things which were previously dogmas are now heresies, and some things which were previously heresies are now dogmas. The problem with this error at the most general level is that it constitutes institutional self-contradiction. The more specific problem is that the Good News is undermined and anti-evangelization occurs, where "good is called evil" (Isaiah 5:20). A third problem is that Christianity becomes nothing more than a vehicle for the passing doctrines of the day (Ephesians 4:14).

In order to avoid these erroneous tendencies we must ask ourselves, first, what are our dogmas and heresies? What things are essential to the Christian faith, and what things are incompatible with the Christian faith? Second, we must ask ourselves whether the dogmas and heresies that we hold today are consistent with the dogmas and heresies that our Christian ancestors held. We must ask, ultimately, whether we are part of the same religion that Jesus Christ founded 2000 years ago.

---------------

Some might claim that Christianity, or religion, should not be propositional. I think it should be and needs to be since humans are rational creatures, but that aside, the content of dogmas and heresies need not always be theoretical. Presumably the schema could also be analogously applied to actions, where some actions are required ("love thy neighbor"), some are prohibited ("thou shalt not commit adultery"), and some are indifferent. In the past there were certain grave sins that cut one off from the Church, and which required a formal period of public penance before reconciliation could occur. The two modern errors therefore apply equally to actions, and those who are more action-oriented could recast this OP in light of practical actions which are encouraged or prohibited.
 

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
14,602
5,769
Pacific Northwest
✟179,171.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Personal Assent

There are three basic positions that can be taken with respect to personal assent: assent, denial, and indifference. For example, consider the proposition, "It will rain tomorrow." We have three basic options: assent to the proposition and assert that it is true; deny the proposition and assert that it is false; or take up a stance of indifference (or ignorance) and neither assert that it is true nor that it is false.


Ecclesial Assent

There are three basic positions that the Church takes up with respect to corporate assent, and they correlate to the above three positions. They are: dogma, heresy, and theological opinion. Dogmas require assent, heresies require denial, and theological opinions require neither assent nor denial. For example, take the proposition, "Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man." We have three basic options: assent, denial, and indifference. Since this proposition is a dogma of Christianity, assent is required, denial is heresy, and indifference is not an option.

A dogma is something that is essential to Christianity, and a heresy is something that is contradictory to Christianity. The logical relation of dogma and heresy to Christianity is as follows:

1. If someone is a Christian, then they must assent to the dogmas.*
2. If someone formally assents to a heresy, then they are no longer Christian.​

*At least implicitly.


Erroneous Modern Tendencies

In modernity there have been two erroneous and common tendencies. The first is religious indifferentism. This is the view that there are no dogmas, there are no heresies, everything is a matter of theological opinion, and people can believe whatever they want while still calling themselves "Christian." The problem with this error at the most general level is that the religion becomes contentless, without form or substance. If people can believe whatever they want while still calling themselves "Christian," then the name "Christian" becomes meaningless. The more specific problem is that the Good News becomes emptied of substance.

The second erroneous modern tendency is a kind of progressive reversal. This is the view that some things which were previously dogmas are now heresies, and some things which were previously heresies are now dogmas. The problem with this error at the most general level is that it constitutes institutional self-contradiction. The more specific problem is that the Good News is undermined and anti-evangelization occurs, where "good is called evil" (Isaiah 5:20). A third problem is that Christianity becomes nothing more than a vehicle for the passing doctrines of the day (Ephesians 4:14).

In order to avoid these erroneous tendencies we must ask ourselves, first, what are our dogmas and heresies? What things are essential to the Christian faith, and what things are incompatible with the Christian faith? Second, we must ask ourselves whether the dogmas and heresies that we hold today are consistent with the dogmas and heresies that our Christian ancestors held. We must ask, ultimately, whether we are part of the same religion that Jesus Christ founded 2000 years ago.

---------------

Some might claim that Christianity, or religion, should not be propositional. I think it should be and needs to be since humans are rational creatures, but that aside, the content of dogmas and heresies need not always be theoretical. Presumably the schema could also be analogously applied to actions, where some actions are required ("love thy neighbor"), some are prohibited ("thou shalt not commit adultery"), and some are indifferent. In the past there were certain grave sins that cut one off from the Church, and which required a formal period of public penance before reconciliation could occur. The two modern errors therefore apply equally to actions, and those who are more action-oriented could recast this OP in light of practical actions which are encouraged or prohibited.
interesting but as you no doubt know you are going to have disagreement with your statements and conclusions.
 
Upvote 0
Christian Counseling
  • Bible-based counseling
  • Available 24/7
  • Cancel Anytime
As a BetterHelp affiliate, we may receive compensation from BetterHelp if you purchase products or services through the links provided.

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
interesting but as you no doubt know you are going to have disagreement with your statements and conclusions.

Not from me. The idea of dogma, heresy, and theological opinions, which the Greek fathers called theologoumemna, is ancient in the Church, and his analysis of the destructive force of modernism is spot-on. Specifically, I think @zippy2006 has summarized the basic doctrine of the Early Church, not from a specifically Roman Catholic position, but from a perspective that any Christian who embraces traditional theology should be able to embrace. For confirmation, and to make sure I didn’t mangle my Greek, I will ask my traditionalist friend @GreekOrthodox , and my other traditionalist friends @prodromos @MarkRohfrietsch @Der Alte @dzheremi @Pavel Mosko and @Shane R , representing Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, conservative Baptism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Continuing Anglicanism.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
14,602
5,769
Pacific Northwest
✟179,171.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not from me. The idea of dogma, heresy, and theological opinions, which the Greek fathers called theologoumemna, is ancient in the Church, and his analysis of the destructive force of modernism is spot-on. Specifically, I think @zippy2006 has summarized the basic doctrine of the Early Church, not from a specifically Roman Catholic position, but from a perspective that any Christian who embraces traditional theology should be able to embrace. For confirmation, and to make sure I didn’t mangle my Greek, I will ask my traditionalist friend @GreekOrthodox , and my other traditionalist friends @prodromos @MarkRohfrietsch @Der Alte @dzheremi @Pavel Mosko and @Shane R , representing Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, conservative Baptism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Continuing Anglicanism.
I do not question that you are correct but I am still quite certain that there is going to be push back.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I do not question that you are correct but I am still quite certain that there is going to be push back.

Oh I am sure. Any time a Roman Catholic dares express an opinion, right or wrong, people will come out of the woodwork to criticize them.

I am going to attend a Traditional Latin Mass maybe for the last time on Laetere Sunday because of Pope Francis reversing Summorum Pontificum.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
14,602
5,769
Pacific Northwest
✟179,171.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Oh I am sure. Any time a Roman Catholic dares express an opinion, right or wrong, people will come out of the woodwork to criticize them.

I am going to attend a Traditional Latin Mass maybe for the last time on Laetere Sunday because of Pope Francis reversing Summorum Pontificum.
Am I to understand that there will no longer be a Latin Mass?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0
6

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,060
7,130
55
Boyertown, PA.
✟689,078.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
interesting but as you no doubt know you are going to have disagreement with your statements and conclusions.

Not from me.

I can understand Clint's comment. There are some people that define "the Essentials" in the most narrow sense, where it only covers things directly related to Soteriology, and none of the other important peripheral background information. So for them something really important out of the creeds like the Trinity would not be an essential because it does not "it does not have anything with getting saved" (an arguable premise).

As I have pointed out this outlook should be seen as extremely reductionist. When debating such a person on another web site I compared it to what saint Paul calls the milk and meat of the gospel, where saint Paul's view is obviously much broader than theirs. Hebrews 6:1-2



But anyway Saint Vincent Lerin's canon / formula pretty much summarizes how people should think about dogma as far as believing in fundamental doctrine and praxis from an ancient, universal consensus. (Because the Orthodox Communions not Communion with Rome do nevertheless adopt that kind of formula for describing why they believe and do certain things they do).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Am I to understand that there will no longer be a Latin Mass?

No, but there will be onerous restrictions that will limit the scope to the FSSP and if we are lucky, the other Ecclesia Dei traditional Latin mass groups like the ICKSP. And of course the SSPX, which is an “iregular canonical state” and some Catholics view it as schismatic.

Whether or not the Latin mass will continue at the parish near me I don’t know, but I am off Sunday morning, so I want to enjoy it while I can. Some dioceses with anti-TLM bishops have already suppressed or restricted the mass, and then the CDW came out with a list of even more absurd restrictions beyond what was initially threatened in Pope Francis’s horrible Traditiones Custodes, which ranks with the Amazonian Synod as the worst thing he’s done, indeed, it might be worse, because it comes across as a vindictive rebuke and intentional destruction of the legacy of still-living Pope Benedict XVI, who was a really good pope. I probably would be Catholic if he hadn’t retired.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,168
Yorktown VA
✟168,582.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I can understand Clint's comment. There are some people that define "the Essentials" in the most narrow sense, where it only covers things directly related to Soteriology, and none of the other important peripheral background information. So for them something really important out of the creeds like the Trinity would not be an essential because it does not "it does not have anything with getting saved" (an arguable premise).

As I have pointed out this outlook should be seen as extremely reductionist. When debating such a person on another web site I compared it to what saint Paul calls the milk and meat of the gospel, where saint Paul's view is obviously much broader than theirs. Hebrews 6:1-2

I agree with this statement. Years ago, I read an article describing Holy Tradition as a crown with various gems representing each part of tradition. The center jewel was a diamond representing the Holy Scriptures. If various groups say, well I don't believe that icons are appropriate, that removes a set of gems. Another group says, the services should be shorter and with a praise band, they've removed another set of gems. And so on. Once you remove Tradition, you've removed the entire crown. Eventually, Sola Scriptura is left with nothing but an unset diamond. Yes, it is beautiful still on its own, but its just a loose gem. You can turn it and read whatever shines through it, but you may not be looking at it in the manner in which is was shaped by the jeweler to be in a setting. As a result, you no longer see the essentials as essentials because you are looking at the diamond from the wrong angle.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,168
Yorktown VA
✟168,582.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Oh, and yesterday was the feast of the restoration of icons :)

As the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught,... as the Church has received... as the teachers have dogmatized,... as the Universe has agreed,... as Grace has shown forth,... as Truth has revealed,... as falsehood has been dissolved,... as Wisdom has presented,... as Christ Awarded,... thus we declare,... thus we assert,... thus we preach Christ our true God, and honor as Saints in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in churches, in Holy Icons; on the one hand worshiping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord; and on the other hand honoring as true servants of the same Lord of all and accordingly offering them veneration.

This is the Faith of the Apostles,
this is the Faith of the Fathers,
this is the Faith of the Orthodox,
this is the Faith which has established the Universe.


-- Confession of faith of the Day of Orthodoxy
 
Upvote 0
10

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I agree with this statement. Years ago, I read an article describing Holy Tradition as a crown with various gems representing each part of tradition. The center jewel was a diamond representing the Holy Scriptures. If various groups say, well I don't believe that icons are appropriate, that removes a set of gems. Another group says, the services should be shorter and with a praise band, they've removed another set of gems. And so on. Once you remove Tradition, you've removed the entire crown. Eventually, Sola Scriptura is left with nothing but an unset diamond. Yes, it is beautiful still on its own, but its just a loose gem. You can turn it and read whatever shines through it, but you may not be looking at it in the manner in which is was shaped by the jeweler to be in a setting. As a result, you no longer see the essentials as essentials because you are looking at the diamond from the wrong angle.

This is beautiful, and expresses my sentiments exactly. I would say however that most ostensibly “sola scriptura” Protestants actually have strong traditions which are usually, in the case of the more doctrinally sound churches, appropriated from the Western and Eastern halves of Christianity to varying extents (this has been true since Cranmer compiled The Book of Common Prayer with Byzantine liturgical influences, like the Prayer of the Second Gospel).

The most purely Western approach seems to be in Calvinism, which had a scholastic approach to theology, and also those branches of Protestantism like Fundamentalism, which favor an extremely literal-historical interpretation of Scripture; if you recall when Justinian anthematized Theodore of Mopsuestia, it caused a schism in parts of the Western church due to his popularity therein. So I suppose, since he remains a saint in the Assyrian Church of the East, historically the most Eastern of Eastern Churches (a title later claimed by the Russian Orthodox, who evangelized so deeply across Siberia into the Far East they reached Alaska in the Far West, but until the 12th century the Assyrians were in Tibet, China and Mongolia until a Muslim Warlord killed all of them.

Thus we have the term “nuda scriptura” which accurately describes those non-denominational and fundamentalist churches which have discarded all tradition, and as a result are extremely doctrinally unstable. The less tradition a Protestant movement has, the more breakaway denominations, which is probably why there are so many varieties of Reformed and Anabaptist churches; compare this to Anglicanism, with its “Scripture, Tradition, Reason” mantra, which itself only really spawned Methodism, although Methodism, despite Tradition being part of the Wesleyan quadrilateral, probably as a consequence of systemic deprecation of Wesleyan doctrines like Entire Sanctification (which is to say, Theosis) and the use of Anglican liturgical traditions, spun off a number of derivative denominations via the Holiness Movement, which in turn led us to Pentecostalism.

Lutheranism likewise has not really generated much in the way of breakaway denominations, and then really mainly just in North America. I can think of only two, WELS and the Protest-ants, the former of which, along with parts of the ELCA/ELCIC, I believe @MarkRohfrietsch indicated have strong crypto-Calvinist influences (it may have been someone else so my apologies Mark if I misquoted you or misinterpreted the context).

By the way, what is WELS called in Canada? The Winnipeg Evangelical Lutheran Synod? ^_^

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

At any rate @GreekOrthodox your post was very true, very beautiful and very appropriate for the morning after the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy, with the beautiful blessing of icons, the most joyous day in Lent next to Annunciation.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Oh, and yesterday was the feast of the restoration of icons :)

As the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught,... as the Church has received... as the teachers have dogmatized,... as the Universe has agreed,... as Grace has shown forth,... as Truth has revealed,... as falsehood has been dissolved,... as Wisdom has presented,... as Christ Awarded,... thus we declare,... thus we assert,... thus we preach Christ our true God, and honor as Saints in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in churches, in Holy Icons; on the one hand worshiping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord; and on the other hand honoring as true servants of the same Lord of all and accordingly offering them veneration.

This is the Faith of the Apostles,
this is the Faith of the Fathers,
this is the Faith of the Orthodox,
this is the Faith which has established the Universe.


-- Confession of faith of the Day of Orthodoxy

It sure was, as I just finished noting in my previous post while you typed that.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,140
33,243
✟583,672.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The center jewel was a diamond representing the Holy Scriptures. If various groups say, well I don't believe that icons are appropriate, that removes a set of gems. Another group says, the services should be shorter and with a praise band, they've removed another set of gems.
And so on. Once you remove Tradition, you've removed the entire crown. Eventually, Sola Scriptura is left with nothing but an unset diamond. Yes, it is beautiful still on its own, but its just a loose gem.
Or...we might also say all of that another way--

What you get to after all the layers of wrappings are removed is the word of God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Or...we might also say all of that another way--

What you get to after all the layers of wrappings are removed is the word of God.

Except John 1:1-17 identifies the Word of God as Jesus Christ, and also Anglicanism embraces Tradition and Reason as means of securing the crown, and always has. Scripture, Tradition and Reason: its what makes the Church of England the stable, solemn, reliable entity you can set your watch by.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: zippy2006
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,140
33,243
✟583,672.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Except John 1:1-17 identifies the Word of God as Jesus Christ,
:sigh: As you know well, the term is used in two different ways in Scripture--to refer to divine revelation and, almost in passing, to Christ. I was of course referring to the word of God in the more common sense of the term.

and also Anglicanism embraces Tradition and Reason....
But not in the way that non-Anglicans do. And then they too often add to their mistake by wrongly assuming that it's the Anglican approach to the matter, too.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Fervent
Upvote 0
15

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,121
4,168
Yorktown VA
✟168,582.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Or...we might also say all of that another way--

What you get to after all the layers of wrappings are removed is the word of God.

And when read outside of the phronema of the Church, has led to a multiplication of heresies in the west over and over again. The Orthodox church has its fair share of problems but the complete fracturing of the church has not happened.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
And when read outside of the phronema of the Church, has led to a multiplication of heresies in the west over and over again. The Orthodox church has its fair share of problems but the complete fracturing of the church has not happened.

Indeed. Anglicanism also has a phronema of sorts which has averted schisms within Anglicanism. Its mainly the Radical Reformation and Restorationist churches which sprung up in the wake of the Magisterial Reformers which have spawned countless denominations they disagree with on minor principles.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,140
33,243
✟583,672.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
And when read outside of the phronema of the Church, has led to a multiplication of heresies in the west over and over again.
And when read INSIDE of the phronema of the Church, it's also led to a multiplication of heresies!

We've been over that claim many times on these forums.

The Orthodox church has its fair share of problems but the complete fracturing of the church has not happened.
Of course it has. The Oriental Orthodox split, the Old Believers split and still exist, and as recently as a few years ago there were FOUR competing Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdictions.

More recently, a position taken by the Russian Patriarch caused a new fracture in the church, and yet the typical member of any Orthodox Eastern church jurisdiction goes on saying to the rest of us "but the complete fracturing of the church has not happened." :rolleyes: Well, anyone can say that about his own denomination, whichever one it is; doing so just requires the speaker to misuse the words.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ana...lits-orthodox-church-isolates-russian-patriar
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
7,549
4,000
48
The Wild West
✟228,742.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
:sigh: As you know well, the term is used in two different ways in Scripture--to refer to divine revelation and, almost in passing, to Christ.

I don’t “know” that at all. In contrast, I have argued repeatedly on these forums that every instance of the phrase “the Word of God” in Scripture at a minimum contains a Christological meaning, and many are exclusively Christological.

I was of course referring to the word of God in the more common sense of the term.

Since when is the descriptive name of Jesus Christ, the Logos or Word of God, the “less common sense?” Certainly not in Patristic writings. They refer to Scripture as Scripture and to the Word as the Word.

But not in the way that non-Anglicans do. And then they too often add to their mistake by wrongly assuming that it's the Anglican approach to the matter, too.

According to High Church Anglicans and Anglo Catholics, what you say is not the Anglican approach, they insist is the Anglican approach. Your interpretation of Anglicanism represents the opposite of Anglo Catholicism; whereas I, when I was an Anglican, saw my ideal City of London parish as St. Magnus the Martyr; you strike me as someone who would be more at home at St. Nicholas, Cole Abbey. Whereas I see you as someone who would regard as a model Anglican theologian someone like Charles Symeon, I, while having the utmost respect for Symeon in his ethics, his sincerity and his excellent contributions to foreign missions, and his work, still ongoing despite criticism from modernists, to convert to Christianity adherents of Judaism, my personal ideal in terms of doctrine would be someone like CS Lewis or, to a still greater extent, Dom Gregory Dix, who as an Anglican monastic liturgiologist with strong Anglo Catholic Eucharistic theology, who possibly identified crypto-Zwinglian contexts in the 1552 BCP (the Black Rubric combined with the text of the sercice seems to preclude anything other than Pneumaticism, Zwinglian Symbolism or Receptionism), I regard as the foremost of Anglican divines.
 
Upvote 0
19

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,140
33,243
✟583,672.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I don’t “know” that at all.
Well, I'm surprised, that's all. You are knowledegable about these things, so I assumed you'd know that "word of God" (capitalized or not) and similar wording refers in some places to Scripture and in other places to Christ. I used it in the former sense.

Since when is the descriptive name of Jesus Christ, the Logos or Word of God, the “less common sense?”
I guess it could be argued that it's not, but both of these meanings are to be found in the Bible in any case.

According to High Church Anglicans and Anglo Catholics, what you say is not the Anglican approach, they insist is the Anglican approach.
...I regard as the foremost of Anglican divines.
I don't agree with that approach. Sorry. But more than that, when I am asked about Anglicans or Anglicanism, my answer is going to be about...Anglicans and Anglicanism.

Anybody can color Anglicanism for himself by plucking out from among the 100 million or so Anglicans in the world the ones they identify with in some way or other, whether it be Anglo-Papalists, "Progressive" Anglicans, Charismatic Anglicans, or some other segment, and then talk as though the preferred group is Anglicanism.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0