Does your church teach/preach end times stuff?

[Hockey_Fan]

Does the church you attend regularly and openly discuss end times prophecies and how they might possibly relate to current events?

My personal experience is that the majority of churches (at least in North America) do NOT. Such discussion seems to always take place in small, fringe groups and not within the mainline church itself. In fact, there seems to be no real consensus within many churches as to whether Jesus will return at all, much less within any of our lifetimes.

So given the discussions on this and other boards, I am wondering what sort of churches DO teach and discuss items such as these? If you attend one that does, please list the type of church (denomination) for reference.

Thanks.

 

[Covenant Heart]

Also Define...

'how they might possibly relate to current events.'

If there is one thing our pastor drills home, it is that clear, authoritative speaking will come across that pulpit. 'Might,' 'possibly' and 'relate' don't cut it with this guy. Still, he does teach a class on the kingdom of God. And he preaches on the Second Advent every Advent.

Does that count?

 

[Super Kal]

no, he doesn't, to my knowledge... he's thoroughly convinced that no one's gonna be here to see it

 

[Hockey_Fan]

Kal,

That is the impression I get as well. Not ruling out that any of these things could someday happen. But that it is so far off in the future, that no one living today will still be alive at that time.

 

[Covenant Heart]

I'm Not Sure Fan...

is picking up on your sense. Maybe I'm misreading you, but 'no one to see it' sounds like a 'scortched earth' scenario? Is that the deal, or am I missing the point?

 

[Super Kal]

I talked to him on Sunday concerning something he said during his lesson on remodeling our lives... he is a dispentational premillennialist

 

[Covenant Heart]

What Can I Say?

But you don't strike me as registering in that area...does pastor know?

 

[Super Kal]

I may disagree with him on Eschatology, but I know he loves God... the one thing I hold to is that it's not the view of Eschatology that saves us... it's Christ and Christ alone that saves us...

and God put me in this church for a reason... the way He led me here, the people I've met, the situations and experiences that He's given me... the people in the church have been an incredible blessing, and I've grown so much where I am

 

[ezek33]

I may disagree with him on Eschatology, but I know he loves God... the one thing I hold to is that it's not the view of Eschatology that saves us... it's Christ and Christ alone that saves us...

and God put me in this church for a reason... the way He led me here, the people I've met, the situations and experiences that He's given me... the peopel in the church have been an incredible blessing, and I've grown so much where I am

Awesome post Kal, this is exactly how i feel about my pastor and church.

 

[Covenant Heart]

You Sir, Have My Respect:

Your decision as to where to be in church, as well as how to handle areas of differences, is exactly where it should be. It is a rare and blessed thing when people broach the issue of membership this way. Thank-God that membership still means something someplace!

Agaom. Thank-you, Kal!

 

[Bible2]

Hockey_Fan posted in message #1 of this thread:

Does the church you attend regularly and openly discuss end times
prophecies and how they might possibly relate to current events?

Greetings.

Any church which claims to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ must
at least preach the endtime prophecies of Mark 13, for they are an
integral part of the book of Mark, and the entire book of Mark is "the
gospel of Jesus Christ" (Mark 1:1).

Any church which claims to consist of disciples of Jesus Christ must
continually preach everything that Jesus taught, for Jesus said "If
ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31).
The entire book of Revelation is from Jesus: "The Revelation of Jesus
Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things
which must shortly come to pass" (Revelation 1:1); "I Jesus have
sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches"
(Revelation 22:16).

Any church which wants to keep its members from future deceptions
must preach the endtime prophecies, for they were given to the
church to keep it from future deceptions: "For false Christs and false
prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if
it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have
foretold you all things" (Mark 13:22-23). "Now we beseech you,
brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or
be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any
means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling
away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or
that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).
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"If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark
in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of
the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup
of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and
they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his
image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the
patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments
of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:9-12).

Hockey_Fan posted in message #1 of this thread:

In fact, there seems to be no real consensus within many churches
as to whether Jesus will return at all, much less within any of our
lifetimes.

Some Christians, because they neither read the Bible themselves nor
have been instructed in their churches regarding endtime prophecies,
think that Jesus will return as a baby, instead of descending from
heaven just as he ascended into heaven: "this same Jesus, which is
taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye
have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11); "the Lord himself shall
descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians
4:16-17).

Not knowing how Jesus will return, or what events must accompany
his return, some Christians could come to believe claims by the False
Prophet of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:11-18, 19:20) that he (the
False Prophet) is the second coming of Jesus, when they see the
amazing miracles which the False Prophet will be able to perform
(Revelation 13:13). Just as Nicodemus said to Jesus "we know that
thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles
that thou doest, except God be with him" (John 3:2), so could some
Christians say to the False Prophet, "we know that you are from God,
for no man can do these miracles that you do, except God be with
him. If you say that you are Jesus returned, who are we to doubt
you?". We must never let miracles be the basis by which we
determine whether someone is from God or not, whether someone is
teaching the truth or not; we must stick with what the scriptures
themselves teach (John 8:31). Of course, this requires that we know
what the scriptures themselves teach; we must read them, every
last word of them (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16).

 

[Bible2]

Hockey_Fan posted in message #4 of this thread:

That is the impression I get as well. Not ruling out that any of
these things could someday happen. But that it is so far off in the
future, that no one living today will still be alive at that time.

The fulfillment of the endtime prophecies may not be that far off
in the future, but could even begin next year. In the parable of
the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34), the fig tree could represent Israel
(Hosea 9:10), and the rebudding of the fig tree could represent the
re-establishment of Israel by U.N. Resolution in November, 1947.
If Matthew 24:34 means that the generation that saw the re-
establishment of Israel will not pass until the tribulation and second
coming (Matthew 24:7-31) have been fulfilled, and if a generation
usually passes after 70 years (Psalms 90:10), then Jesus could
return a little less than 70 years after the re-establishment of Israel.
He could return in the latter part of 2016. If the tribulation lasts
about 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) before Jesus' return, then the
tribulation could begin in 2010 and occur during the seven years of
2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

This could be confirmed by the prophecy of the 70 "weeks"
(Daniel 9:24-27). There the Hebrew word translated as "weeks" is
derived from a word which means "to be complete", so that the
70 "weeks" could be 70 "to be completed", which could be 70 years
to be completed. These 70 years could have begun with the 1947
U.N. "commandment to restore" Israel (Daniel 9:25a). Daniel 9:25
could mean that Jesus will return 69 years after that commandment,
that is, return in 2016. So, again, the tribulation could start in 2010.

If the tribulation could start that soon, every church really needs
to get cracking and make sure that all of its members are completely
versed in all of the endtime prophecies, so that none of its members
will fall into deception during the tribulation (Mark 13:22-23,
Revelation 13:13-18).

What do you think about these things?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

The churches that I have been at have been wise enough to have never mentioned anything about eschatology. The one reference to it was by a lay-person who mentioned the left behind books as being credible.
The church I go to sometimes now, are mature enough people to leave interpretation of the Bible up to the individual, and that includes interpreting the prophets.
I left a church some time ago, partly because of a dispensationalist eschatology, introduced as doctrine.. that Jesus will return to rule the earth.
Or perhaps that is just millenialism, but it's wrong anyway and should not be a dogma or statement of faith.

 

[Bible2]

hiscosmicgoldfish posted in message #13 of this thread:

The churches that I have been at have been wise enough to have
never mentioned anything about eschatology.

Greetings.

Note that it is wise to preach every word of the Bible (Matthew 4:4,
2 Timothy 3:15-4:4) including its eschatological parts, such as
Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 2 Thessalonians 2,
1 Corinthians 15:51-54, and Revelation chapters 6-22, which were
given to the church for a reason (Mark 13:23, Revelation 1:1, 22:16).

hiscosmicgoldfish posted in message #13 of this thread:

The church I go to sometimes now, are mature enough people to
leave interpretation of the Bible up to the individual, and that
includes interpreting the prophets.

Then does that church at least preach what the Bible itself says,
including in its eschatological parts? And does that church make no
comments at all on what the Bible says? Are all the Sunday school
classes and Bible studies and sermons in that church just plain
readings from the Bible itself, with no comments, no interpretations,
no explanations of the Bible readings at all from teachers or pastors?
Then why has God placed Bible teachers and pastors in the Church?
(Ephesians 4:11b).

hiscosmicgoldfish posted in message #13 of this thread:

I left a church some time ago, partly because of a dispensationalist
eschatology, introduced as doctrine.. that Jesus will return to rule
the earth.
Or perhaps that is just millenialism, but it's wrong anyway and should
not be a dogma or statement of faith.

Note that the doctrine that Jesus will return to rule the earth (with
the church) during the millennium (the 1000 years) is believed by
non-dispensationalists as well, for it is taught by the Bible itself
(Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29). Why does one think that this is
wrong? And shouldn't what the Bible teaches be dogma and a
statement of faith? Why did Paul command 2 Timothy 4:2? Why did
he make the warning of 1 Timothy 4:1? Isn't the Bible itself the
infallible source of Christian faith and doctrine (Romans 10:17,
2 Timothy 3:15-16), and the standard against which every teaching
of every man must always be tested? (Acts 17:11b).