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Does Your Church Hang Pictures Portraying Jesus

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Daniels, Jan 31, 2008.

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  1. ScottBot

    ScottBot Revolutionary

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    *puts his knives away.*

    Killjoy. :|
     
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Peace, Peace when there is no Peace!!!! :)

    Matthew 10:34 "No you should be inferring that I came to be casting Peace upon the land. Not I came to be casting/balein <906> (5629) Peace, but a Sword/macairan <3162>"

    reve 6:4 And came out another horse, firery red, and to the one sitting upon it/him was given to him/it to be taking the Peace out of the land and that one another they shall be slaying and was given to him a Sword, Great. [Ezekiel 38:21]
     
  3. JacktheCatholic

    JacktheCatholic Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

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    He was but a Philospher defending Christianity and I can find no where that he stated they were canon??? :confused:
     
  4. Tonks

    Tonks No longer here Supporter

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    6?

    Here is a list of hundreds of early christian and other assorted writers:

    http://www.monachos.net/library/Patristics_Master_List,_Page_1#A_-_Documents_in_the_Monachos_Library
     
  5. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

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    Pardon my possible sounding foolish here, but has anyone mentioned St. John of Damascus?
     
  6. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It seems he fell into the same error of interpretation which you have :)
    I did not throw him under the train, I read your quote in its proper context and found him under the train.
    I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I have a full time job, have three children who all have various activities to attend after school and an internet connection that is slower than molasses on a cold day.

    You realise you are guilty of doing exactly what the Catholics do in searching the Church Fathers for anything which might support their position on the Papacy. You are researching a foregone conclusion

    John
     
  7. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

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    What good it is to show each other what other guys thought anyhow.
    Some said tomato, some said tomahto...


    "graven image" search results.

    Exodus 20:4
    Leviticus 26:1
    Deuteronomy 4:16
    Deuteronomy 4:23
    Deuteronomy 4:25
    Deuteronomy 5:8
    Deuteronomy 7:5
    Deuteronomy 7:25
    Deuteronomy 12:3
    Judges 17:3
    Judges 17:4
    Judges 18:14
    Judges 18:17
    Judges 18:20
    Judges 18:30
    Judges 18:31
    2 Kings 17:41
    2 Kings 21:7
    2 Chronicles 33:19
    2 Chronicles 34:7
    Psalm 78:58
    Psalm 97:7
    Isaiah 10:10
    Isaiah 21:9
    Isaiah 30:22
    Isaiah 40:19
    Isaiah 40:20
    Isaiah 42:8
    Isaiah 42:17
    Isaiah 44:9
    Isaiah 44:10
    Isaiah 44:15
    Isaiah 44:17
    Isaiah 45:20
    Isaiah 48:5
    Jeremiah 8:19
    Jeremiah 10:14
    Jeremiah 50:38
    Jeremiah 51:17
    Jeremiah 51:47
    Jeremiah 51:52
    Hosea 11:2
    Micah 1:7
    Micah 5:13
    Nahum 1:14
    Habakkuk 2:18
     
  8. Komnenos

    Komnenos Guest

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    Yes but ST John is too late for Simon to be an early Church father.
     
  9. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Jack trace back this exchange to the begining you'll see
    I didn't say he stated canon, I said he recognised they were divinely inspired w/o going through the the "infallible" rulings of the rcc...see
    In 177 Athenagoras without any infallible ruling from the RCC, recognizes books as Divinely inspired scripture, and he derives doctrine from those books. He refers to the books themselves, without any infallible ruling from the RCC, he called them "fitting grounds" for defending the doctrines of Christianity:

    Here's an example!

    "If we satisfied ourselves with advancing such considerations as these, our doctrines might by some be looked upon as human. But, since the voices of the prophets confirm our arguments-for I think that you also, with your great zeal for knowledge, and your great attainments in learning, cannot be ignorant of the writings either of Moses or of Isaiah and Jeremiah, and the other prophets, who, lifted in ecstasy above the natural operations of their minds by the impulses of the Divine Spirit, uttered the things with which they were inspired, the Spirit making use of them as a flute-player breathes into a flute;-what, then, do these men say? 'The Lord is our God; no other can be compared with Him.' And again: 'I am God, the first and the last, and besides Me there is no God.' In like manner: 'Before Me there was no other God, and after Me there shall be none; I am God, and there is none besides Me.' And as to His greatness: 'Heaven is My throne, and the earth is the footstool of My feet: what house will ye build for Me, or what is the place of My rest?' But I leave it to you, when you meet with the books themselves, to examine carefully the prophecies contained in them, that you may on fitting grounds defend us from the abuse cast upon us." (A Plea for the Christians, 9)
     
  10. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    What are your respective churches interpretation of this scripture, it's key to this exchange in my opinion.

     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Isaiah 65, 1 corin 5 and Reve 21? :)

    http://www.scripture4all.org/

    Isaiah 65:17 That behold-Me! Creating/01254 bara' Heavens, New-ones, and-Land, New, and-not they-shall-be-remembered the-former-ones/07223 ri'shown, and-not they-shall-come-up on heart.
    18 But rather be elated and exult futures of future which I creating. That behold Me! Creating the [email protected]
    an exultation, and her people an elation.

    2 Corin 5:17 So that if any in Christ a new Creation/ktisiV <2937>. The former-things/arcaia <744> pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627), behold has become/gegonen <1096> (5754) New the all-things

    Revelation 21:1 And I perceived a-Heaven, New, and a-Land, New, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......
    6 And He said to me:" it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754). I Am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end
     
  12. vanshan

    vanshan A Sinner

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    Sorry in advance if this has already been answered, but the scripture is probably held in even higher esteem by the Orthodox than many other Christian groups, so we are in no way discounting its importance. We value the scriptures so highly that we do not want people to interpret them in whatever way may make sense to them, but instead want to make sure the right message is being understood and taught to each believer. If you take scripture, but miss it's right interpretation, then it's of little value--in fact it can do a lot of harm, see Jehovah's Witnesses or the many other extrememly heterodox cults. So, we each must be humble enough to check our understanding against the unchanging teachings that were passed down from the Apostles, and to them by Christ.

    Basil
     
  13. Asinner

    Asinner Seeking Salvation

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    Hi Simon,
    Just curious, what version is this?

    My Orthodox Study Bible states this . . . Paul did not know "the historical Jesus", as He voluntarily took on our mortality, lived on earth and was known according to the flesh (v. 16). Nobody knows Jesus that way after His Ascension, for his mortal flesh has been transormed into an immortal body. Even so, our old bodies are transformed into a new creation (v.17) in Christ. Because God created all things through Christ, He will transform and reunite all things - material as well as spiritual-to Himself through Christ.



    Love,
    Christina
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hi. The Apostles were Jews/Israelites and they would have quoted from the OC Scriptures as JESUS did.
    The Book of Isaiah is fascinating and if you read it closely, it is mainly directed at the OC Hebrew Israelites/Judeans. The Book of Hebrews is all about the OC Mosaic/Levitical Priesthood for example:

    http://www.scripture4all.org/

    Isaiah 65:17 That behold-Me! Creating/01254 bara' Heavens New-ones and-Land New and-not they-shall-be-remembered the-former-ones/07223 ri'shown and-not they-shall-come-up on heart...............

    Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying `New,' He hath made Old the first/prwthn <4413>. The yet being aged and being obsolete/ghraskon <1095> nigh of disappearance/afanismou <854>
     
  15. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Church historian eusibius directly related this text to his disdain for images of Christ and the saints and went on to encourage this...
    Believers ought rather to fix their mental eye, above all, upon the divinity of Christ, and, for this purpose, to purify their hearts; since only the pure in heart shall see God.12031203 In Harduin, Collect. concil. tom. iv. p. 406. A fragment of this letter of Eusebius is preserved in the acts of the council of the Iconoclasts at Constantinople in 754, and in the sixth act of the second council of Nice in 787.

    Get away from the senses and into the spiritual.
     
  16. Asinner

    Asinner Seeking Salvation

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    Simon,

    This is gnosticism. Christ is Physical and Spiritual, as are we.

    Love,
    Christina
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hi. But of course. Now if we can only convince the Jews of that. ;)

    http://www.scripture4all.org/

    2 Corin 5:17 So that if any in Christ, a new Creation, the former-things/arcaia <744> pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627). Behold! has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754) New the all-things

    Revelation 21:4 and the God/YHWH shall be out-rubbing every tear out of their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, that the first-things/prwta <4413> pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).'
     
  18. Tonks

    Tonks No longer here Supporter

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    I'd settle for making sure that all Christians have faith in the Divine Truth...then deal with the Jews.
     
  19. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    LOL are you suggesting Eusibius was a GNOSTIC?

    Christ, says he, has laid aside His earthly servant-form, and Paul exhorts us to cleave no longer to the sensible;1202 and the transcendent glory of His heavenly body cannot be conceived nor represented by man; besides, the second commandment forbids the making to ourselves any likeness of anything in heaven or in earth.
    1202 Comp. 2 Cor. v. 16.
     
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