Does your Christian tradition put this as a good thing - or a bad thing?

BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Does your church have a theology/tradition/eschatology/doctrine-on-nature-of-evil/doctrine on life in the universe/ doctrine on the second coming/doctrine on God as Creator and Savior of mankind --- that is in anyway relevant to the events described in that trailer?


I am inclined to believe that is the case just as you say.
 
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BobRyan

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chad kincham

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It only requires magic.
No.

Which is right up there with being aware than your nose exists.

And all this time I thought it was Bill Thompson.

The universe seems to have lots of stuff in it. Maybe even flying saucers. Nothing in science of Scripture to prove that though, is there?

Sonuvagun.

Like, oh, Islam, or some such. Nah, not spooky enough.



Believing in Flying Saucers when none exist might fill that bill.

Sorry, "fire from heaven" is kinda old school these days, innit? We've been doing that with frightful results since at least 1939, haven't we?

Flying saucers are bunk.
[/QUOTE]

Is there any thing in Revelation that isn’t metaphor, or allegory, but will literally occur, in your view?

Do demons exist today, or did they go on permanent vacation when the original apostles died?
 
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BobRyan

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Is there any thing in Revelation that isn’t metaphor, or allegory, but will literally occur, in your view?

Do demons exist today, or did they go on permanent vacation when the original apostles died?

And to add to that...

Was there ever a time when warnings in God's Word about a coming event - could be "safely ignored"?

Notice what we find in 2 Thess 2.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false

How successful?

Rev 13
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”
...
12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

Matt 24
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance.

1 Thess 5
3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do
 
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Jipsah

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Is there any thing in Revelation that isn’t metaphor, or allegory, but will literally occur, in your view?
How exactly does this relate to Bob's flying saucers? I don't see any reference in the Revelation that seems to relate to them, either literally or symbolicly.

Do demons exist today, or did they go on permanent vacation when the original apostles died?
Let me guess, if I say that I believe that demons exist, then your argument will be that I must believe in flying saucers as well, right? My answer to that is "baloney". But if I say I don't believe in demons, then you'll declare that I don't believe the Bible, and that if I did believe the Bible, I'd believe in flying saucers as well,close? My answer to that would be roughly the same as before.

UFOs are almost all aircraft, natural phenomena, or observer headspace error. Flying saucers don't exist. End of.
 
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Jipsah

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Was there ever a time when warnings in God's Word about a coming event - could be "safely ignored"?
Well, considering that, as I understand it, your lot doesn't believe that any of the "End Times" prophecies have ever been fulfilled, then everyone who has ever lived up up until now could have safely ignored them.

Notice what we find in 2 Thess 2.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false
I;m sorry, but I missed the reference to flying saucers or spacemen there. You may take stuff like that as an article of faith, but I've never considered "Plan Nine From Outer Space" part of the canon.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.
Ah, there are the flying saucers, right? Well,maybe not:

"The basic [Thor] weapon system consists of an orbiting element some 20 to 40 feet long. It requires a GPS receiver to locate itself; a means of taking it out of orbit; an atmospheric guidance system, such as a means of changing its center of gravity (moving weights, small fins, etc.), and a communication system to give it a target and activate the system. No warhead is wanted or needed. Thor will impact a target area at about 12,000 feet per second; that is sufficient kinetic energy to destroy most hard targets, with minimum collateral damage and of course no fall-out. Achievable accuracy has been estimated at ten to twenty feet CEP (circular error of probability)."

FWIW, these "flying crowbars" would be white hot from their reentry into the atmosphere. Fire from heaven, 70s technology, no flying saucers, spacemen, or demons required.

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance.
Was our Lord speaking to us, or His disciples? If us, then they could have ignored that warning as it didn't pertain to them. If the warning was for them, or for those a generation or ten after us, they're of only academic interest to us.

No flying saucers in Scripture in any case.
 
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chad kincham

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How exactly does this relate to Bob's flying saucers? I don't see any reference in the Revelation that seems to relate to them, either literally or symbolicly.

Let me guess, if I say that I believe that demons exist, then your argument will be that I must believe in flying saucers as well, right? My answer to that is "baloney". But if I say I don't believe in demons, then you'll declare that I don't believe the Bible, and that if I did believe the Bible, I'd believe in flying saucers as well,close? My answer to that would be roughly the same as before.

UFOs are almost all aircraft, natural phenomena, or observer headspace error. Flying saucers don't exist. End of.

And I asked because you reject out of hand the possibility that space aliens/UFOs have any possibility of being part of the literal end time deception to come, from Revelation - despite that a list of phenomena associated with the demonic/occult is identical to close encounter phenomena that’s been reported, leading many to believe that the coming deception has the possibility of involving demons masquerading as space aliens.

Thus if you deny that the demonic realm exists, or claim that the prophecy in Revelation has already been fulfilled, or claim that the book of Revelation is all metaphor and allegory, as some do - that would explain your flippant dismissal of the form that the deception to come, might manifest as.

Hence my query.
 
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Jipsah

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And I asked because you reject out of hand the possibility that space aliens/UFOs have any possibility of being part of the literal end time deception to come
Separate out "UFOs". A UFO is almost always a misidentified airplane. Space aliens and flying saucers? Yeah, I reject our of hand any possibility of spacemen or flying saucers have any part in the "End Times" because I see no reason to believe they exist at all. It's like saying the jabberwock may play a part in an End Times Deception. My objection is that there is no jabberwock. Whether or not there are demons is irrelevant. Saying "demons can disguise themselves as jabberwocks to decieve us" is probably true, but acting as though they will is simply silly. The whole "demons as/in flying saucers" stuff is equally silly.

, from Revelation - despite that a list of phenomena associated with the demonic/occult is identical to close encounter phenomena that’s been reported, leading many to believe that the coming deception has the possibility of involving demons masquerading as space aliens.
I've noticed over the years that "many people" embrace ridiculous ideas, based on little or no evidence.

Thus if you deny that the demonic realm exists
I don't, and haven't. I deny that flying saucers exist, and will continue to do so until I'm showm some evidence that they

, or claim that the prophecy in Revelation has already been fulfilled
Some has, some hasn't. Our Lord hasn't returned yet, for instance. The "Mark of the beast" happened, just as the Revelator said it would to the people to whom he was writing. He wasn't warning those folks for nothing. "Hey y'all, here's a letter that tells what's going to happen in a few thousand years, just thought you'd find it interesting." No. Especially given his insistence that the reader ought to get ready, because the time was at hand, and even at the door. As I said, if that prophecy ws for us, it wasn't for them. If it was for them alone, it isn't for us. If there was stuff there for both groups, then we all ought to take heed.

BTW, "let he who has wisdom count the number of the beast". John expected his readers, the ones to whom the letter was addresses, to know who the number referred to. I expect that they did,

, or claim that the book of Revelation is all metaphor and allegory, as some do - that would explain your flippant dismissal of the form that the deception to come, might manifest as.
I'm very flippant about flying saucers, as I am about haints, spooks, chupacabras, banshees, big foots, kelpies, ad infinitum. Tell me that demons will be roaming the countryside discuised as leprechauns or sky dragons (the Asian kind, they're much cooler than the European fire drakes) and you'll get the same reaction from me. I have no interest in made-up add-ons to End Times speculations, and no reason to take them seriously.
 
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BobRyan

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Interesting point made in that documentary -- in the OP


Is the best solution "sleep"?

Or compare it to what the Bible predicts will happen in the future?


And I asked because you reject out of hand the possibility that space aliens/UFOs have any possibility of being part of the literal end time deception to come, from Revelation - despite that a list of phenomena associated with the demonic/occult is identical to close encounter phenomena that’s been reported, leading many to believe that the coming deception has the possibility of involving demons masquerading as space aliens.

Thus if you deny that the demonic realm exists, or claim that the prophecy in Revelation has already been fulfilled, or claim that the book of Revelation is all metaphor and allegory, as some do - that would explain your flippant dismissal of the form that the deception to come, might manifest as.

Hence my query.

Good point

I'm very flippant about flying saucers,

noted.
 
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BobRyan

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Well, considering that, as I understand it, your lot doesn't believe that any of the "End Times" prophecies have ever been fulfilled,

huh??

1260 years of Daniel 7 , Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ... "fulfilled"
2300 years of Daniel 8, ... "Fulfilled"
490 years of Daniel 9.... "fulfilled.

six of the 7 church ages in Rev 2 and 3 -... "completed" .. currently in the 7th church age.

=======================

But this thread is about real events reported not just in main stream news but also official confirmation by the D.O.D. and how this increasingly common news item will eventually impact the ability to evangelize non-Christians who are given no reason at all to doubt what they are seeing in the news.
 
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Jipsah

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huh??
1260 years of Daniel 7 , Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ... "fulfilled"
2300 years of Daniel 8, ... "Fulfilled"
490 years of Daniel 9.... "fulfilled.
I stand corrected. So y'all are partial preterists. I had no idea. I may have been arguing with premil-dispies for too long.

six of the 7 church ages in Rev 2 and 3 -... "completed" .. currently in the 7th church age.
I don't hold with "7 church ages". The 7 churches were real churches.

But this thread is about real events reported not just in main stream news but also official confirmation by the D.O.D. and how this increasingly common news item will eventually impact the ability to evangelize non-Christians who are given no reason at all to doubt what they are seeing in the news.
You read "UFO" or "UAP" as "flying saucer". That's silly. F-117 and B-2 were both "UFOs" during their development, and they were ours. Stealth technology is giving way to "spoof" (my term) technology, faking out radar. I've mentioned using an illegal RF trick to spoof traffic radar, and that's just a redneck tinkerer's trick. What can governments with platoons of engineers pull off? Nah, it's flying saucers.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
huh??
1260 years of Daniel 7 , Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ... "fulfilled"
2300 years of Daniel 8, ... "Fulfilled"
490 years of Daniel 9.... "fulfilled.

I stand corrected. So y'all are partial preterists.

As with this entire thead -- More attention to details please.... we are historicists.
 
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