Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

[Gary O']

There are some groups that have taken more extreme stances and have rejected the advancements and choose to live in their own off the gird communities

I haven't read all the comments, but enough to get the gist
I've lived off grid for the last five years, in our mountain cabin
Not to reject modern advances
Just to enjoy nature a bit....get away
I'll tell ya, sabbath or no, there's many an ox in the ditch....every day
We bought a place in town in Sept
Turning on the lights with a switch.....is not work, and does not impact anything
Folks keeping the power grid going (whatever day) is necessary
Too many reliant folks, hospitals, old folks, and on and on

 

[Gary O']

Turning on the lights with a switch.....is not work, and does not impact anything
Folks keeping the power grid going (whatever day) is necessary
Too many reliant folks, hospitals, old folks, and on and on

To expound a bit more on this;
If I were to prepare (on Friday) for not turning lights on, setting up candles and special lamps, and (I suppose) not turning the tap for water, so filling jugs for sabbath (?), then making sure to not touch the switch or tap, I'm pretty sure I'd lose all perspective of what sabbath is for me....celebrating God's creation

I think I'd be too preoccupied
I can just see me having folks over for Friday night vespers......YOU FLIPPED......THE SWITCH???!!!

No, I'm good with the simple celebration

However, I do like the way The Creator turns the lights on and off

 

[DamianWarS]

I haven't read all the comments, but enough to get the gist
I've lived off grid for the last five years, in our mountain cabin
Not to reject modern advances
Just to enjoy nature a bit....get away
I'll tell ya, sabbath or no, there's many an ox in the ditch....every day
We bought a place in town in Sept
Turning on the lights with a switch.....is not work, and does not impact anything
Folks keeping the power grid going (whatever day) is necessary
Too many reliant folks, hospitals, old folks, and on and on

Swirches aren't work and I'm sure you know better than any the power grid still operates with or without your participation. But willful participation in nonessential use of manpowered services like the power grid on the sabbath would be in violation of the letter of the sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Swirches aren't work and I'm sure you know better than any the power grid still operates with or without your participation. But willful participation in nonessential use of manpowered services like the power grid on the sabbath would be in violation of the letter of the sabbath.

Just curious if you try to keep Sabbath the way God asked?

Some peoples lives depend on power and PG&E is being sued over this same thing when they decided to shut off the power in CA and several people died because they were on life saving medical devices that require power.

It seems like its the ones who never attempt to keep Sabbath always try to point fingers at the ones who do. No sure why that is, but the Bible has many parallels of this same scenario. Funny how some things never change.

 

[DamianWarS]

Some peoples lives depend on power

I'm addressing non-essential use.

 

[Gary O']

willful participation in nonessential use of manpowered services like the power grid on the sabbath would be in violation of the letter of the sabbath.

I get that
I'm going with intent, not 'the letter' of the law

I look forward to enjoying the sabbath
It'll never be a burdensome thing for me

 

[seeking.IAM]

I grew up with family members who had strict Sabbath keeping rules, some of which made no sense to me then or now. I confess I fantasize about becoming a better Sabbath keeper than I am. Maybe someday I can achieve that.

I think Christians sometimes err when we extrapolate personal admonitions into broader applicability to others. We are commanded to have limits on our own behavior, less so upon being responsible for the behavior of others. It says "do not kindle a flame," not "do not cause others to kindle a flame" or make candles (or electricity).

When my wife re-did our kitchen, she bought a new fridge and stove that have Sabbath settings. Activated, opening the fridge door on the Sabbath doesn't turn on the light. I'm not sure what the stove does - I imagine the burner turns itself on at pre-determined times to warm one's soup? Is technology great, or what?

 

[Gary O']

Some peoples lives depend on power and PG&E is being sued over this same thing when they decided to shut off the power in CA and several people died because they were on life saving medical devices that require power.

It seems like its the ones who never attempt to keep Sabbath always try to point fingers at the ones who do. No sure why that is, but the Bible has many parallels of this same scenario. Funny how some things never change.

Funny, how the oddities become so vivid, telling a story in themselves.

Christ was crucified on Friday
His accusers worked hard to ensure this was done with great expediency
So they could get home.....and prepare for the Sabbath

 

[DamianWarS]

I grew up with family members who had strict Sabbath keeping rules, some of which made no sense to me then or now. I confess I fantasize about becoming a better Sabbath keeper than I am. Maybe someday I can achieve that.

I think Christians sometimes err when we extrapolate personal admonitions into broader applicability to others. We are commanded to have limits on our own behavior, less so upon being responsible for the behavior of others. It says "do not kindle a flame," not "do not cause others to kindle a flame" or make candles (or electricity).

When my wife re-did our kitchen, she bought a new fridge and stove that have Sabbath settings. Activated, opening the fridge door on the Sabbath doesn't turn on the light. I'm not sure what the stove does - I imagine the burner turns itself on at pre-determined times to warm one's soup? Is technology great, or what?

I'm not refering to the kindle a flame on the sabbath law. I'm refering to the responsibility that it's not us only that needs to keep the Sabbath but all those under our care as well as foriengers and by skirting this responsibility we break the Sabbath. When we subscribe to a manpowered system we are keeping a demand alive to keep people working. "Importing" power into our homes that took labour to make would be a counter-sabbath value.

 

[DamianWarS]

I get that
I'm going with intent, not 'the letter' of the law

I look forward to enjoying the sabbath
It'll never be a burdensome thing for me

What is the intent of the Sabbath then?

 

[Gary O']

What is the intent of the Sabbath then?

To celebrate creation

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Rest.....rest, from all the distractions, all the work

We get to do this one day in seven

Hey, I used to work 7 days outa 7
Long hours
I all but worked myself into the ground

I'm going to enjoy my Sabbath
It's not a rigorous, grievous thing

 

[DamianWarS]

neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner

The law has a greater focus on others as your responsibly than merely yourself. Claiming we can keep the intent of the law by personal resting seems to be a selfish interpretion that isnt concerned about others, but the law very clearly is concerned about others. What gives you the liberty to say the intent is inward not outward?

 

[Gary O']

What gives you the liberty to say the intent is inward not outward?

Mine is not for display

It's for rest

Please, enjoy this coming Sabbath

 

[DamianWarS]

Mine is not for display

It's for rest

Please, enjoy this coming Sabbath

I appreciate your responses

Sabbath rest mirrors salvation through Christ. The law instructs us to give this rest to those in our care and responsibly ("nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner"). An animal or slave for example cannot take rest for themselves they must be given it and in an ancient household this would apply to the whole household as the household is under leadership by its head and it would appear the law is in the perspective to the heads of households

The head of the household is charged with not just keeping rest themselves but giving rest to those under their responsibility and this even extends to foriengers. This is a powerful foreshadow to salvation as we under Christ cannot take salvation ourselves, as oxen cannot take rest themselves, it must be given in order to have it.

So when I speak of an outward focus I don't mean to flaunt your resting but rather a charge to keep and spread rest. Christ tells his followers in Acts "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Here a parallel can seen with how Christ is expanding out starting at the most inner circle to the outter most. A similar focus is with the sabbath as it is not just a gift for us to hoard but to give to others starting inside and moving outwards.

This is the intent of the sabbath and we miss the point when we keep it to ourselves.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I appreciate your responses

Sabbath rest mirrors salvation through Christ. The law instructs us to give this rest to those in our care and responsibly ("nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner"). An animal or slave for example cannot take rest for themselves they must be given it and in an ancient household this would apply to the whole household as the household is under leadership by its head and it would appear the law is in the perspective to the heads of households

The head of the household is charged with not just keeping rest themselves but giving rest to those under their responsibility and this even extends to foriengers. This is a powerful foreshadow to salvation as we under Christ cannot take salvation ourselves, as oxen cannot take rest themselves, it must be given in order to have it.

So when I speak of an outward focus I don't mean to flaunt your resting but rather a charge to keep and spread rest. Christ tells his followers in Acts "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Here a parallel can seen with how Christ is expanding out starting at the most inner circle to the outter most. A similar focus is with the sabbath as it is not just a gift for us to hoard but to give to others starting inside and moving outwards.

This is the intent of the sabbath and we miss the point when we keep it to ourselves.

The Sabbath was made before sin and before law and before Gods' plan of salvation for all mankind, so it is not a "shadow law" that mirrors God's salvation for mankind. God made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27 as part of the "finished work" of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 where on the "seventh day" according to the scriptures, God "rested" from all the work he had made and "blessed" the "seventh day" as a "holy day" of rest *Genesis 2:1-3 for all mankind *Mark 2:27 as a "memorial" of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth *Exodus 20:8-11. So the Sabbath being a memorial of creation points "backwards" to creation not forwards to things to come *Exodus 20:8. There was no sin and no law and no gospel when God created the Sabbath for all mankind. Mankind was already in perfect harmony with God (sinless) and talked face to face with their creator. God's 4th commandment Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11.

 

[Gary O']

This is the intent of the sabbath and we miss the point when we keep it to ourselves.

I'm beginning to see your perspective

 

[DamianWarS]

So the Sabbath being a memorial of creation points "backwards" to creation not forwards to things to come

A common litteral form favoured by Hebrews and abundant in scripture is though chiastic structures where there is a constant cycle of things happening and everything not only points ahead but also echos the past. The first day where God speaks light to a dark formless void is in itself a foreshadow for Christ and salvation, not to mention the resurrection. Without Christ we are a dark formless void and with Christ we are a new creation. The 7th day may also parallel the rest Jesus speaks of when he says "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.". In the language Jesus spoke what word do you think he used when he uttered "rest"?

There are no dead ends with scripture. The 4th doesn't point to the 7th day it echos the 7th day and whatever the 7th day points to so does the 4th. Adam was thrown out of Eden and cursed to toil and work the soil until he returned to the soil. This has as much spiritual impsct as it does physical but through the sabbath we have an opportunity to experience this pre-curse rest again and that is the goal of the sabbath and why it has an outward focus.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

A common litteral form favoured by Hebrews and abundant in scripture is though chiastic structures where there is a constant cycle of things happening and everything not only points ahead but also echos the past. The first day where God speaks light to a dark formless void is in itself a foreshadow for Christ and salvation, not to mention the resurrection. Without Christ we are a dark formless void and with Christ we are a new creation. The 7th day may also parallel the rest Jesus speaks of when he says "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.". In the language Jesus spoke what word do you think he used when he uttered "rest"?

There are no dead ends with scripture. The 4th doesn't point to the 7th day it echos the 7th day and whatever the 7th day points to so does the 4th. Adam was thrown out of Eden and cursed to toil and work the soil until he returned to the soil. This has as much spiritual impsct as it does physical but through the sabbath we have an opportunity to experience this pre-curse rest again and that is the goal of the sabbath and why it has an outward focus.

Dear friend, your claims here cannot be demonstrated in the scripture for the reasons outlined through the scriptures shared with you in post # 75 you are part quoting from. The 4th commandment absolutely points to the "seventh day" by defining what the Sabbath is in Exodus 20:10 where it says "the "seventh day" is the sabbath of the LORD your God. The 4th commandment points "backwards" not "forwards" when it says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" - Exodus 20:8 and the reason the 4th commandment Sabbath was given is provided in Exodus 20:11 where is says "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it which is a reference backwards to Genesis 2:1-3. So Yep Gods' 4th commandment absolutely point's to the "seventh day" Sabbath of God's creation!

 

[DamianWarS]

That would be an unbiblical theory that cannot be shown in the scripture for the reasons outlines in the scriptures given in the post you are only part quoting from.

what part exactly would be unbiblical? are you rejecting that the rest of the 7th day is the same rest Jesus spoke about when he said "I will give you rest"

 

[LoveGodsWord]

what part exactly would be unbiblical? are you rejecting that the rest of the 7th day is the same rest Jesus spoke about when he said "I will give you rest"

The gospel rest is not the same as the Sabbath rest. The gospel was given as God's plan of salvation for mankind after sin. The Sabbath was made before sin. The gospel rest is what we receive after we have sinned, when we believe and follow Gods' Word and was given as a part of God's plan of salvation after the fall of mankind. Today we do not enter into God's rest which is the "seventh day Sabbath rest" without receiving the Gospel rest which is what we receive by believing and following Gods' Word *Hebrews 4:1-9. The Gospel rest is a part of God's plan of salvation after sin for all mankind. As posted earlier from the scriptures the Sabbath was made before sin and before law and before Gods' plan of salvation for all mankind (Gospel), so it is cannot be a "shadow law" that mirrors God's salvation for mankind because there was no sin and no plan of salvation (Gospel) when the Sabbath was made for all mankind.