Does the Tanakh require blood sacrifice for forgiveness of sins?

[BobRyan]

Does the Hebrew scripture teach that 'without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin' similar to what we find in Hebrews 9?

If so - what do non-Christian Jews do to resolve the problem that all sin - but there are no more animal sacrifices?

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First the first question

But if you obey the Law, guarantee is provided that you don't need forgiveness. Get the Logic of this statement?

I agree completely. But all have sinned - even coveting "thought crimes" are a sin. In the OT (Tanakh) they had animal sacrifices to deal with the sin - in the NT we have the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ according to Hebrews 10.

In the NT - Paul says Christianity is viewed as a "sect of Judaism". In fact one would have to call it the most wildly successful sect of Judaism in all of history since it has over 2.1billion followers of Jesus who was by all accounts - a Jew.

Yes, we all have sinned; hence, the need to set things right with HaShem so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow. All we need is to repent and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) The role of the ritual of sacrifices was not to achieve forgiveness from sins but as prophetical shadows of things to come. BTW, Prophet Jeremiah said that HaShem never commaned that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. (Jeremiah 7:22)

First of all the sacrifices are commanded in the book of Leviticus and specific statements about forgiveness of sins given for the sin offering and for atonement.

This is irrefutable.

Lev 17
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

as For Jeremiah 7

16 “So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the Lord. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.

21 “‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22 For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you. 24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward. 25 From the time your ancestors left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. 26 But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their ancestors.’

The sacrifices were brought in because of sin - but God does not say that adding obedience to sin gets you forgiveness of the initial sin. For without the shedding of blood 'no forgiveness of sins'.

Else Adam and Eve could simply walk right back into the garden of Eden adding "obedience" to sin to get it forgiven.

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[visionary]

Yeshua's blood has been shed, and I look to that to plead my case.

 

[BobRyan]

Tanakh requires blood sacrifice to atone for sins. This is not the blood of the murderer but of the sinless spotless perfect sacrifice -

Sin offering on Leviticus 16 - Yom Kippur.

The scapegoat is not the sin offering

Lev 16
6 “Aaron is to offer the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household. 7 Then he is to take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 8 He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat. 9 Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the Lord and sacrifice it for a sin offering. 10 But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat.

...

15 “He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull’s blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it. 16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the tent of meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 No one is to be in the tent of meeting from the time Aaron goes in to make atonement in the Most Holy Place until he comes out, having made atonement for himself, his household and the whole community of Israel.

18 “Then he shall come out to the altar that is before the Lord and make atonement for it. He shall take some of the bull’s blood and some of the goat’s blood and put it on all the horns of the altar. 19 He shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times to cleanse it and to consecrate it from the uncleanness of the Israelites.

20 “When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat. 21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites—all their sins—and put them on the goat’s head. He shall send the goat away into the wilderness in the care of someone appointed for the task. 22 The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a remote place; and the man shall release it in the wilderness.

 

[BobRyan]

The purpose of the trespass offering (Isaiah 53:10) is for atonement and forgiveness. It covers over the trespass after the innocent animal's blood is shed (Leviticus 17:11).

Lev 5:14 And YHWH spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of YHWH; then he shall bring for his trespass unto YHWH a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:
Lev 5:16 And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:17 And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of YHWH; though he knew it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
Lev 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and knew it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:19 It is a trespass offering: he hath certainly trespassed against YHWH.​

Notice that atonement is made for sin in that example - not by having the sinner, thief, liar killed by but having the perfect spotless sinless -- sin offering - killed.

 

[BobRyan]

Leviticus 17 - the Tanakh requires blood sacrifice - as the sin offering - a perfect spotless sinless sin offering.

Lev 17
6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the Lord.

7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

8 And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,

9 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the Lord; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.

10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood

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NIV -
10 “‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood.”

 

[BobRyan]

P.S. BobRyan, yes, Elohim's Righteous Judgment demands that the one who murders, there is no satisfaction, except by the blood of the murderer:

Num 35:33
(33) So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

Notice that in the Tanakh I quoted - the sacrifice the atonement has to be made by giving the sinless spotless sin offering to the priest and on the altar it is slain to make atonement - and they are not allowed to eat the blood of the sin offering.

Not sure what you are saying in response to that - did you think that those who sinned were being killed by the priest on the altar as sin offerings ?? What exactly did you mean?

 

[visionary]

The services are illustrations of what it takes to remove sins from the sinners, told through the temple services and the feasts with which Yeshua fulfills them.

 

[BobRyan]

Shalom BobRyan, there are many different offerings and sacrifices, and absolutely under no circumstances, was the eating of blood allowed. Life is IN the blood, and that blood has to be poured out on the altar or ground, it cannot be eaten.

True - which means that the context for atonement and sin offerings is the spotless blood offering sacrifice - not the wicked/sinner being sacrificed.

In no case it is the life of the sinner giving him atonement - as we see in both Lev 16 and Lev 17.

Think along the lines of how the LIFE of a person either condemns them, or gives them atonement. Those who have confessed their sins over the sin offering, and then puts their sin to death, have atonement, but those who remain in their sin, have no atonement.

If the mere act of laying your hands on something and confessing sins would do it - then no priest, no animal,... just a rock. Each person in their own home with a rock to lay hands on and confess sins over.

And in that case - a shiny rock could have been handed to Adam and Eve - they place their hands on it - they confess their sins and true repentance for sin. Back in the Garden of Eden they go - no death, no sickness, no destruction of the world by a flood, No Jews offering child sacrifices to Moloch, no wiping out of the Jewish people and their cites several times during history, no black plague, no WWI and no WWII etc.

Instead of that we have blood sacrifice -- and the life is in the blood of that blood sacrifice - which must not be blemished - but rather sinless and spotless perfect blood sacrifice.

The shedding of innocent blood will not generate atonement, but the death of those who shed innocent blood, does.

When the wicked die - no matter how horrible the death - the Tanakh never says they "are killed by priest or slain on the altar" -- when the wicked die - they do not have atonement made for them -- rather they suffer and die.

Please consider Moshe when he tried to atone for the sin of his people, and die in their stead...what was the outcome?

God rejected it since Moses was not sinless and Moses could not suffer the sin-debt incurred by a nation - in fact Moses would not survive even paying his own debt of sin.

And have you considered Isaiah 22:14 or Daniel 9:24? Atonement for iniquity comes when the sinner dies

Where do we see atonement for iniquity comes when the sinner dies" in the tanakh -- how does the sinner survive that if he is dead?

This is the promise of "no atonement"

14 The Lord Almighty has revealed this in my hearing: “Till your dying day this sin will not be atoned for,” says the Lord, the Lord Almighty.

 

[visionary]

The human sacrifice

 

[danny ski]

In a word, no.