Does the OT say not to lie?

[Kit Sigmon]

There is a rabbinic principle determined from such OT stories that says that (with a couple of exceptions) when they are in conflict, negative commands, “Thou Shalt NOT,” are trumped by positive commands; “Thou Shalt.” Our Lord Himself appealed to this in several instances like healing on the Sabbath. So the principle stands.

In both of your stated cases, the positive command to save life trumps the prohibition of lying. So it is NOT a “lesser of 2 evils” kind of thing after all.

Are you referring pikkuah nefesh...which be derived from Leviticus 18:5?

 

[Dave-W]

Are you referring pikkuah nefesh...which be derived from Leviticus 18:5?

That is a subset of what I am referring to.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I know the 10 commandments command us not to bear false witness against our neighbor but what about other lies?

I would say to beware.

Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[W2L]

I would say to beware.

Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Thank you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Thank you.

What surprised me about that verse is the "cowardly." Wow! Perhaps those who chose to take the mark of the beast rather than to give up their lives for Christ?

 

[W2L]

What surprised me about that verse is the "cowardly." Wow! Perhaps those who chose to take the mark of the beast rather than to give up their lives for Christ?

Perhaps.

 

[RaymondG]

What surprised me about that verse is the "cowardly." Wow! Perhaps those who chose to take the mark of the beast rather than to give up their lives for Christ?

perhaps those to fear going further into the kingdom of heaven because of the does and donts of religious....

 

[1stcenturylady]

perhaps those to fear going further into the kingdom of heaven because of the does and donts of religious....

"further into" the kingdom of heaven? I think you are either there or you're not.

 

[RaymondG]

"further into" the kingdom of heaven? I think you are either there or you're not.

Some are at the door....fearing to go in, because of possible wrong doing. I believe there is a journey even after you enter, however.....so dont be content with just the ability to raise one from the dead, or heal the sick.....there is greater......there is more.....

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I know the 10 commandments command us not to bear false witness against our neighbor but what about other lies?

Well I would not harshly judge every lie.

If a medical examiner knows a man died in horrible pain but assures the family he died quickly . . I wouldn't judge him harshly.

If a gestapo asks where the jews are and they're hiding in my closet I would freely assert I didn't know where they were.

If a man on his deathbed assures a loved one he has accepted Christ but confesses to me later he just did that to help the loved one feel better after he is gone . . . and after he passes that loved one comes and shares with me how joyful she is that he accepted Christ . . . how far is it proper for me to go along with her understanding?

If a man has a heart that has gone cold towards his wife but continues to lie to her and say he loves here . . . and never betrays her in any way except to simply keep saying he loves her . . . what do we say about such a man?

 

[W2L]

Well I would not harshly judge every lie.

If a medical examiner knows a man died in horrible pain but assures the family he died quickly . . I wouldn't judge him harshly.

If a gestapo asks where the jews are and they're hiding in my closet I would freely assert I didn't know where they were.

If a man on his deathbed assures a loved one he has accepted Christ but confesses to me later he just did that to help the loved one feel better after he is gone . . . and after he passes that loved one comes and shares with me how joyful she is that he accepted Christ . . . how far is it proper for me to go along with her understanding?

If a man has a heart that has gone cold towards his wife but continues to lie to her and say he loves here . . . and never betrays her in any way except to simply keep saying he loves her . . . what do we say about such a man?

Thank you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Some are at the door....fearing to go in, because of possible wrong doing. I believe there is a journey even after you enter, however.....so dont be content with just the ability to raise one from the dead, or heal the sick.....there is greater......there is more.....

I'm talking about after you die. What are you talking about?

 

[DamianWarS]

I was blessed by reading that chapter, thank you. I dont see where Samuel lied though. Nor do i see treason because God is the authority, not Saul. Treason would be to go against God.

Samuel covered up the truth and Israel pass on their theocracy in favour of a monarchy. Samuel was essentially plotting to over throw the King, this is treason against the king.

 

[RaymondG]

I'm talking about after you die. What are you talking about?

Im talking about after we find Life.

 

[DamianWarS]

i agree. Samuel was obeying God rather than man. Saul was an abomination to God.

Of course, but he still lied and he still committed treason against Saul even if it was by divine authority. Not all treason has selfish motives.

 

[Reborn1977]

I know the 10 commandments command us not to bear false witness against our neighbor but what about other lies?

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of Scripture, Old and New Testament, that lying is not something God wants people to partake in for any reason.


Lying erodes your character and self-worth from the inside out.


Lying breaks trust with people in one of the deepest ways. When you lie, and people find out they always question your words from then on.

 

[W2L]

Lying breaks trust with people in one of the deepest ways.

Yes it does, i agree.

 

[RDKirk]

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of Scripture, Old and New Testament, that lying is not something God wants people to partake in for any reason.


Lying erodes your character and self-worth from the inside out.


Lying breaks trust with people in one of the deepest ways. When you lie, and people find out they always question your words from then on.

If you're lying to an enemy, as did Rahab and the Hebrew midwives, that's not a problem.

 

[Phil.Stein]

Sometimes we are forced in the world to choose the "lesser of evils". Rahab lied to protect Joshua's spies, the midwives lied to protect Moses and the other Hebrew babies. Lying is still technically a sin, but if we are forced to answer something, it is a greater sin to deliver up the innocent to murder.

i've often wondered about this. people often ask if it was a sin for rahab to lie, yet no one considers whether it was a sin to kill all those living in jericho. i think certain actions are justified by war, including lying and killing.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Welcome to CF.

i've often wondered about this. people often ask if it was a sin for rahab to lie, yet no one considers whether it was a sin to kill all those living in jericho. i think certain actions are justified by war, including lying and killing.

I understand what you're saying. But I'd just hesitate to use the word "justified". Sometimes it is necessary and loving to do a certain act - which act is never "just" or "good" in itself (like a person protecting innocents who might kill an intruder in order to protect them). The killing is still a bad thing, but perhaps not so bad as failing to protect the innocents.

I think God understands. It's not so much about ticking boxes or "laws" ... it's about the kind of person we are - and how that affects what we do (while at the same time our actions also shape us - for better or for worse). If we killed someone even out of necessity, it would be better for us if we bitterly regretted the fact that we had to do so, rather than trying to legally justify ourselves. The first is tied to repentance - the second bears no fruit (or possibly bad fruit).

I'm not criticizing your answer btw. Just looking at the subject a little deeper in response to word choice.

God be with you.