Does the Holy Spirit still live inside of believers who have fallen away?

Neostarwcc

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I'm wondering if the Holy Spirit still lives inside of believers who have fallen away. Does Jesus never give the Holy Spirit to believers whom he knows will fall away? Because, Jesus says in John 14:16:

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

so when we receive the HS he is with us forever. But, believers who have fallen away have either never been given the HS or it's still living inside of them. Those are the only two options. What do you think?
 

Neostarwcc

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What do you mean by ""Fallen Away"" ?

I mean that they no longer believe in Jesus and don't until their deaths. Or some of them might come back to Christ after they convert to another religion. They were once believers but they fell away.
 
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Adstar

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I mean that they no longer believe in Jesus and don't until their deaths. Or some of them might come back to Christ after they convert to another religion. They were once believers but they fell away.

Then no.. One must believe Jesus and be trusting in the Atonement He secured for their salvation to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit..
 
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Neostarwcc

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So you're saying that Jesus never would have given them the Holy Spirit in the first place because Jesus can see past, present, and future and he knows what people will follow him for life and what people won't. Interesting, I have to say I might agree.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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People who turn away from following Jesus and cannot bear the cross are grieving the Holy Spirit because they bring the Holy Spirit away with them. The Holy Spirit is our down-payment when we first believe. Turning away from Christ isn't the same as Him turning away from you. Merely turn toward Him again and you'll find Him still there and the Holy Spirit within ready to co-operate within you. Searing the conscience is generally needed to not hear His Voice.
 
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Neostarwcc

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People who turn away from following Jesus and cannot bear the cross are grieving the Holy Spirit because they bring the Holy Spirit away with them. The Holy Spirit is our down-payment when we first believe. Turning away from Christ isn't the same as Him turning away from you. Merely turn toward Him again and you'll find Him still there and the Holy Spirit within ready to co-operate within you. Searing the conscience is generally needed to not hear His Voice.

So you're saying the HS leaves a believer when they fall away? It's that contradictory to John 14:16 that says that the HS NEVER actually leaves a believer? The HS remains in us forever.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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People who turn away from following Jesus and cannot bear the cross are grieving the Holy Spirit because they bring the Holy Spirit away with them. The Holy Spirit is our down-payment when we first believe. Turning away from Christ isn't the same as Him turning away from you. Merely turn toward Him again and you'll find Him still there and the Holy Spirit within ready to co-operate within you. Searing the conscience is generally needed to not hear His Voice.

So you're saying the HS leaves a believer when they fall away? It's that contradictory to John 14:16 that says that the HS NEVER actually leaves a believer? The HS remains in us forever.
The Holy Spirit remains with us forever is what I said. Dwelling in us is what brings us to His throne, whether we use that every day or only to quicken us there in death for whatever.
 
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Neostarwcc

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The Holy Spirit remains with us forever is what I said. Dwelling in us is what brings us to His throne, whether we use that every day or only to quicken us there in death for whatever.

Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood what you said.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood what you said.
That's ok. I think it's important for those who have fallen away to understand that the Holy Spirit is still with them, that they are being a grief to the HS because of it, that the HS is still speaking to them to return and that to stiffle the voice of the conscience that is Spirit controlled takes a lot of self-abusement. It's an important topic.
 
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mark kennedy

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I'm wondering if the Holy Spirit still lives inside of believers who have fallen away. Does Jesus never give the Holy Spirit to believers whom he knows will fall away? Because, Jesus says in John 14:16:

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

so when we receive the HS he is with us forever. But, believers who have fallen away have either never been given the HS or it's still living inside of them. Those are the only two options. What do you think?
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6)
When Jesus is talking to the Apostles in the upper room there was no question of their faith and commitment, they all belonged to God in a permanent way.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. (John 17:6)
Notice he says, 'they have kept your word'. Jesus explains it this way in the parable of the sower. The word of God is like a seed, if it falls along the road the devil comes and steals it away from their heart so they never believe, and therefore not saved. If it falls on stony ground, initially they receive it with joy, but due to a time of testing, persecution of some kind, it has no root so they fall away. If it falls among the weeds, the cares of this life and the deceitfulness of riches, the word is chocked out and they never mature, that is they never bear fruit. The good and noble heart that avoids those hazards goes on to bear fruit (Luke 8:1-15). Being born of the spirit requires that your faith bear fruit, those who do not were enlightened in that they understood the gospel. They even experienced the power of the Holy Spirit (were enlightened) which is the only way you can understand the gospel.

What is vital to understand here is that the Hebrews were in danger of falling away from the faith and returning to the works righteousness of ancient Judaism. They are being warned that if they do then they cannot be restored to repentance. This isn't the same thing as someone who has matured and received the Holy Spirit, bore fruit and kept the faith. There is a time of decision, when your at that point that decision will decide if you are God's forever or a child of perdition. If you experience sin in your life and we all do, then you can repent of those particular sins but falling away from faith is another thing entirely. God can even destroy the body to save the soul:

For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. (1 Cor. 11:30-32)
The rich Christians in Corinth were mistreating the poor, who were probably slaves. At the pitch in dinner, they called the love feast, they were stuffing their faces and getting drunk while other believers went hungry. They are told because of this some on you are sick and some of you have died. You can still be saved if you fall into sin but you will be judged, but falling away from the faith happens before you are actually indwelled by the Holy Spirit and born again of incorruptible seed. James was dealing with the same problem, the rich were mistreating the poor and James was asking if this was even saving faith:

Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)
Some had made a profession of faith but were not really bearing fruit. The mark of the disciple is the love believers have for one another.

By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. (James 13:35)
Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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They can give their birthright to heaven away which the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of so no birthright no Holy Spirit.
Esau never received that inheritance, or the blessing that went with it. He fell away before Isaac had the chance, even though he tried, it was gone.
 
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They can give their birthright to heaven away which the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of so no birthright no Holy Spirit.
Greed is what God hates so many will receive a reward that falls short of the New Jerusalem imo
 
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mark kennedy

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Greed is what God hates so many will receive a reward that falls short of the New Jerusalem imo
That's very true, so many go through their lives and never come to a decision, for a thousand years they watch the church minister in the millennial kingdom. Some from other faiths, some who may have never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. Some just couldn't be bothered.
 
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That's very true, so many go through their lives and never come to a decision, for a thousand years they watch the church minister in the millennial kingdom. Some from other faiths, some who may have never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. Some just couldn't be bothered.
No matter what the only thing that counts is the mind of Christ. From the further comment that would leave it debatable whether Ghandi was indeed a follower of Christ and whether his motives were pure in producing the change for freedom. In any case Christ is in control and the judge of all things. The only thing He excused Himself from was judging was fighting over inheritances.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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I'm wondering if the Holy Spirit still lives inside of believers who have fallen away. Does Jesus never give the Holy Spirit to believers whom he knows will fall away? Because, Jesus says in John 14:16:

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

so when we receive the HS he is with us forever. But, believers who have fallen away have either never been given the HS or it's still living inside of them. Those are the only two options. What do you think?

This is an important question you ask and since the Holy Spirit does reside in the believers unto the day of redemption we must see what the scriptures say about who they are that have this new birth. The scriptures that say, those who endure unto the end will be saved is often times misunderstood. It is not saying one can never know for sure until they die, well if that were true, Paul would never have said, being confident of this very thing that He who began the good work in me will perform it unto the day of redemption. And the other places which agree with this principle. A key passage for me is in the 8th chapter of John, one can read the whole chapter to see the context, but Jesus says something very much to the point of your question. John 8:31-32 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” The disciples who are sealed are surely known by the Godhead to be true believer and as because of this they will abide(remain) in His word and will not turn away from the gospel. Therefore they are those who will endure unto the end and by faith they do have or can have, big difference, the same assurance as Paul in Phil 1:6. Some have the Holy Spirit but are not sure because they for one reason or another do not believe they can know. Also, if you look at Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. The election and predestination of those called and foreknown are that they will be not only called, but justified, and will be glorified, they are all in the past tense, if you notice. This God determined before the foundation of the world was laid. Eph 1:4-7 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. This is my understanding of election, not a specific person, but those who will receive the Son to them gave He the power to become the children of God. Of course He also knew who they would be. Not as Calving said of choosing the elect persons, but the effects of elections being that these two passage will take place. And along with your question is why believers that are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the new birth will have the effects of all things working together for good to them who are the according to His purpose.
 
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No matter what the only thing that counts is the mind of Christ. From the further comment that would leave it debatable whether Ghandi was indeed a follower of Christ and whether his motives were pure in producing the change for freedom. In any case Christ is in control and the judge of all things. The only thing He excused Himself from was judging was fighting over inheritances.
To reiterate that's like falling into the hands of the living God, so I'ma gonna withdraw from any concept relating to this. Which means the general mindset on this forum.
 
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dreadnought

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I'm wondering if the Holy Spirit still lives inside of believers who have fallen away. Does Jesus never give the Holy Spirit to believers whom he knows will fall away? Because, Jesus says in John 14:16:

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

so when we receive the HS he is with us forever. But, believers who have fallen away have either never been given the HS or it's still living inside of them. Those are the only two options. What do you think?
I think the Holy Spirit lives in everybody.
 
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