Does the "fornication" exception for divorce not apply today?

Dave L

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Once you've started telling Jesus that He was wrong, you are lost to rational theological debate.
Here's how it works. Even though Matthew 19:9 was Old Testament not imported into the New, you still lose. Because the adulterous husband gave his innocent wife grounds for divorce and remarriage according to the popular view. Yet Jesus says she commits adultery along with her new husband when she remarries.
 
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RDKirk

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Under the New Covenant. But he was under the Old Covenant until the Cross.

I would disagree with your first sentence because His word became reality the instant Jesus uttered it. That's why miracles happened at His word...no miracle He uttered waited until after the cross before becoming reality.

But either way, execution was cancelled for adultery by the time Paul was writing to the Corinthians and certain it is for us today.
 
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Dave L

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I would disagree with your first sentence because His word became reality the instant Jesus uttered it. That's why miracles happened at His word...no miracle He uttered waited until after the cross before becoming reality.

But either way, execution was cancelled for adultery by the time Paul was writing to the Corinthians and certain it is for us today.
The NT replaced the OT (Law).
“‘Behold, the days come,’ saith the LORD, ‘that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them,’ saith the LORD: ‘but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days,’ saith the LORD, ‘I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the LORD”: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,’ saith the LORD: ‘for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.’” Jeremiah 31:31–34 (NCPB)
 
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RDKirk

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RDKirk said:
I would disagree with your first sentence because His word became reality the instant Jesus uttered it. That's why miracles happened at His word...no miracle He uttered waited until after the cross before becoming reality.

But either way, execution was cancelled for adultery by the time Paul was writing to the Corinthians and certain it is for us today.

The NT replaced the OT (Law).
“‘Behold, the days come,’ saith the LORD, ‘that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them,’ saith the LORD: ‘but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days,’ saith the LORD, ‘I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the LORD”: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,’ saith the LORD: ‘for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.’” Jeremiah 31:31–34 (NCPB)

Yes, I'm aware. More support for my point.
 
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RDKirk

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Here's how it works. Even though Matthew 19:9 was Old Testament not imported into the New, you still lose. Because the adulterous husband gave his innocent wife grounds for divorce and remarriage according to the popular view. Yet Jesus says she commits adultery along with her new husband when she remarries.

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving. for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery -- Matthew 5

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! -- Luke 17

Jesus knows which person caused the sin to occur.
 
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Dave L

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But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving. for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery -- Matthew 5

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! -- Luke 17

Jesus knows which person caused the sin to occur.
They both commit adultery if they remarry (Matthew 19:9).
 
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Dave L

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RDKirk said:
I would disagree with your first sentence because His word became reality the instant Jesus uttered it. That's why miracles happened at His word...no miracle He uttered waited until after the cross before becoming reality.

But either way, execution was cancelled for adultery by the time Paul was writing to the Corinthians and certain it is for us today.



Yes, I'm aware. More support for my point.
No provision for divorce or remarriage in the NT.
 
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CaspianSails

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Jesus taught that divorce should only be considered for adultery anything else results, if the person remarries in adultery. If they do not remarry it is still adultery. I think this verse is pretty straight forward. Moses allowed other reasons for divorce and Christ rejected that position. Today we have church leaders who are divorced and remarried and not for adultery. What does that say for the state of the church. These same leaders will decry the state of the church from the pulpit stating there is practically no difference in lifestyle between the church and the world.
 
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Dave L

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You keep saying that, even though Jesus said something different.
Prove with scripture divorce is an option for believers under the New Covenant. Also remarriage. Pagans divorce believers but they do not divorce them.
 
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CaspianSails

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Here's how it works. Even though Matthew 19:9 was Old Testament not imported into the New, you still lose. Because the adulterous husband gave his innocent wife grounds for divorce and remarriage according to the popular view. Yet Jesus says she commits adultery along with her new husband when she remarries.

Dave, the verse quote could not now be in practice as the conditions mentioned there are not in force to this day. My New Testament begins with Mathew 1:1. Christs teachings are the foundation for the New Covenant. It is the New Covenant not the New Testament that makes a difference. Does it replace the law or fulfill it? I think if you were to talk to a Messianic Jew you would find they think quite differently about the position of the law in their faith with Christ. Paul may have thought different about that as well if you consider Acts chapter 21. However, the verses, from the Old Testament, that you quote speak of a time not quite here yet so if that is your basis of the beginning of the New Covenant then we are indeed within the veil of another covenant. Else we have to ignore or discount portions of the quoted prophecy from Jeremiah. I have heard those verses taken out of context and selectively used to prove more than one point but the entirety of the passage all works together.
 
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Dave L

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Dave, the verse quote could not now be in practice as the conditions mentioned there are not in force to this day. My New Testament begins with Mathew 1:1. Christs teachings are the foundation for the New Covenant. It is the New Covenant not the New Testament that makes a difference. Does it replace the law or fulfill it? I think if you were to talk to a Messianic Jew you would find they think quite differently about the position of the law in their faith with Christ. Paul may have thought different about that as well if you consider Acts chapter 21. However, the verses, from the Old Testament, that you quote speak of a time not quite here yet so if that is your basis of the beginning of the New Covenant then we are indeed within the veil of another covenant. Else we have to ignore or discount portions of the quoted prophecy from Jeremiah. I have heard those verses taken out of context and selectively used to prove more than one point but the entirety of the passage all works together.
Matthew 19:9 does not apply today. Divorce or remarriage is not provided in the New Covenant.
 
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