Kilk1

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No, but 2 verses taken out of context can certainly be used to prove that it does.

You could say that if Jesus wanted non Jewish Ministers he would have made some of the Apostles Gentiles - same reasoning.

I think @Chrystal-J's point has at least some merit to it. Would anyone say it's a coincidence that all 12 apostles ended up being men, not one a woman? We could reply with the fact that all 12 apostles were Jewish, but again, that isn't coincidental either. Gentiles weren't added to the Christian movement until later (Acts of the Apostles 10-11), so Jesus actually was focusing on just Jews for the apostleship.

There's an obvious reason why all 12 were Jews. Are we to say it's merely coincidental that all 12 were men? It seems there's more to the story.
 
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Paidiske

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Or we could look at the larger group of those following Jesus - and how it included women like Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany, and other disciples who took on leadership roles early (note the apostle Junia, traditionally considered to have been one of the 70 sent out in Luke 10) - and see that focussing too narrowly on the twelve apostles misses the big picture of early church leadership.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Hello! Does the Bible forbid women from being preachers or pastors?

1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."

1 Timothy 2:11-12: "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

Thanks,
Kilk
1 Cor.11:3-10, 3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
A woman can preach and teach but must be covered by her husband. Unclean spirits attack women more than men. Because the woman came out of man so she is more vulnerable for attacks.
 
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Strong in Him

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A woman can preach and teach but must be covered by her husband.

Meaning what?
Supposing a man agrees that his wife is called to be ordained, and commits to supporting and praying for her - is that what you mean?
Supposing a woman isn't married, or has chosen not to marry in order to serve God; should she not be allowed to follow her calling because she doesn't have a man beside her?
Supposing a man and his wife both preached/were ordained, and the man then suddenly died; would the woman have to resign?
What of nuns in a convent; are they allowed to teach about God/lead worship?

Unclean spirits attack women more than men.

Have you any evidence for that?
The devil attacks anyone who has some kind of weakness. So if a man was gambling/into horoscopes/drinking heavily/doing drugs etc, he would be far more susceptible to the devil. And there have been male Christian leaders who have fallen into adultery, greed with/misuse of money etc.

Because the woman came out of man so she is more vulnerable for attacks.

Sorry, but I think that's nonsense; there is no evidence for that.
God chose to make woman from man, and she was created to be his companion. Are you saying that God chose that method of creating woman knowing that, by doing so, he was subjecting her to more attacks from the evil one?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hello! Does the Bible forbid women from being preachers or pastors?

1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."

1 Timothy 2:11-12: "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

Thanks,
Kilk

Since no one has broached this the way I would, I'll just drop a shameless plug for Richard & Catherine Kroeger's (1992) book, I Suffer Not A Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy 2:11-15 in light of ancient evidence, and for some of the work by Spiros Zodhiates on this same topic.

For me, this is where I begin with this topic.
 
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Strong in Him

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I think @Chrystal-J's point has at least some merit to it. Would anyone say it's a coincidence that all 12 apostles ended up being men, not one a woman?

Of course it's not a coincidence; Jesus chose and called 12 men to be his closest followers.
But that is very far from saying that it shows that women can't preach the Gospel.
It is a fact that Jesus chose a woman to be the first witness to the resurrection.
Women were considered to be unreliable witnesses, and, I've heard, weren't even allowed into a court of law; yet Jesus chose a woman to witness to him.
The 12 disciples were closest to Jesus and would be the ones entrusted with the task of preaching the Gospel and making disciples and were the future leaders of the church - yet they were all hiding in fear, and they weren't the first to hear about the risen Christ.
It was a woman who told them the Good News.

We could reply with the fact that all 12 apostles were Jewish, but again, that isn't coincidental either. Gentiles weren't added to the Christian movement until later (Acts of the Apostles 10-11),

Yet Jesus spoke to, and healed, Gentiles - the Samaritan woman, the Syro-Phoenician woman, the Roman centurion's servant - and told the disciples they would be his witnesses in Samaria and all over the world, Matthew 28:20, Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

so Jesus actually was focusing on just Jews for the apostleship.

There's an obvious reason why all 12 were Jews. Are we to say it's merely coincidental that all 12 were men?

There's an obvious reason why all were men; women were 2nd class citizens in that society. I doubt anyone would have taken Jesus seriously if he had had female disciples. They may have just assumed he had a harem.
This in no way proves that God doesn't want women to preach the Gospel.

God the Father, in his awesome love, sent his only Son to die for our sins, so that we could be reconciled to him, become his children, have a relationship with him and receive his Spirit and every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Jesus told his disciples to preach this message far and wide - are you saying that God is going to be upset if that message is given to others by a woman?
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Meaning what?
Supposing a man agrees that his wife is called to be ordained, and commits to supporting and praying for her - is that what you mean?
Supposing a woman isn't married, or has chosen not to marry in order to serve God; should she not be allowed to follow her calling because she doesn't have a man beside her?
Supposing a man and his wife both preached/were ordained, and the man then suddenly died; would the woman have to resign?
What of nuns in a convent; are they allowed to teach about God/lead worship?



Have you any evidence for that?
The devil attacks anyone who has some kind of weakness. So if a man was gambling/into horoscopes/drinking heavily/doing drugs etc, he would be far more susceptible to the devil. And there have been male Christian leaders who have fallen into adultery, greed with/misuse of money etc.



Sorry, but I think that's nonsense; there is no evidence for that.
God chose to make woman from man, and she was created to be his companion. Are you saying that God chose that method of creating woman knowing that, by doing so, he was subjecting her to more attacks from the evil one?
What I am saying is that man was the one that was created, which was a full unit by himself. The woman was taken out of that unit. So she is the weaker vessel. Not meaning in strength. But in covering. 1 Cor. 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
The woman can preach and teach without a covering from her husband, but she will have the devil test her all the time with all sort of troubles, physically and mentally. Even with the husband they will still face trials from the devil, but not as many.
In the garden of Eden, which one did the devil approach and deceive?
This is the living bible translation: 1 Cor. 11:10, For this reason, and because the angels are watching, a woman should wear a covering on her head to show she is under authority.
Remember the demons are fallen angels.
 
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Strong in Him

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What I am saying is that man was the one that was created, which was a full unit by himself. The woman was taken out of that unit.

Woman was created too; Genesis 1:27: Male and female he created THEM.
The woman herself was not taken from Adam's side - a rib was; God still created woman from that rib.

So she is the weaker vessel.

Doesn't follow.

But in covering. 1 Cor. 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Men and women are both equal in God, and under God.
"Head" doesn't mean "boss".

The woman can preach and teach without a covering from her husband, but she will have the devil test her all the time with all sort of troubles, physically and mentally.

The devil will try to tempt, test and destroy anyone who belongs to Christ. He hates God and wants to lure people away. He is the bad shepherd who comes to steal and destroy, and a liar and a murderer.

Even with the husband they will still face trials from the devil, but not as many.

So what evidence do you have for that?
Where does the Bible say that a married woman will have fewer trials than a single one? Again, what about nuns, who devote their lives to prayer and service and who aren't married?

In the garden of Eden, which one did the devil approach and deceive?

Eve.
She could be deceived, tricked, because she had not heard God's word for herself. Adam had. The devil could not make him doubt what he KNEW that God had said.
So he approached the woman, because he could put doubt in her mind.

This is the living bible translation: 1 Cor. 11:10, For this reason, and because the angels are watching, a woman should wear a covering on her head to show she is under authority.

Maybe you can explain that then, because it doesn't make sense.
We are under God's authority. God chooses, calls and equips us, and we have the armour of God to protect us from the evil one - how is wearing a headscarf going to defeat the devil?
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Woman was created too; Genesis 1:27: Male and female he created THEM.
The woman herself was not taken from Adam's side - a rib was; God still created woman from that rib.



Doesn't follow.



Men and women are both equal in God, and under God.
"Head" doesn't mean "boss".



The devil will try to tempt, test and destroy anyone who belongs to Christ. He hates God and wants to lure people away. He is the bad shepherd who comes to steal and destroy, and a liar and a murderer.



So what evidence do you have for that?
Where does the Bible say that a married woman will have fewer trials than a single one? Again, what about nuns, who devote their lives to prayer and service and who aren't married?

I realize that most people understand physically but not spiritually. It's a spiritual thing. The man being the covering of a woman does not mean that he is her boss. His authority is not at her, but for her. For example if she went to the car shop to get some work do on her car by herself

Eve.
She could be deceived, tricked, because she had not heard God's word for herself. Adam had. The devil could not make him doubt what he KNEW that God had said.
So he approached the woman, because he could put doubt in her mind.



Maybe you can explain that then, because it doesn't make sense.
We are under God's authority. God chooses, calls and equips us, and we have the armour of God to protect us from the evil one - how is wearing a headscarf going to defeat the devil?
Woman was created too; Genesis 1:27: Male and female he created THEM.
The woman herself was not taken from Adam's side - a rib was; God still created woman from that rib.



Doesn't follow.



Men and women are both equal in God, and under God.
"Head" doesn't mean "boss".



The devil will try to tempt, test and destroy anyone who belongs to Christ. He hates God and wants to lure people away. He is the bad shepherd who comes to steal and destroy, and a liar and a murderer.



So what evidence do you have for that?
Where does the Bible say that a married woman will have fewer trials than a single one? Again, what about nuns, who devote their lives to prayer and service and who aren't married?



Eve.
She could be deceived, tricked, because she had not heard God's word for herself. Adam had. The devil could not make him doubt what he KNEW that God had said.
So he approached the woman, because he could put doubt in her mind.



Maybe you can explain that then, because it doesn't make sense.
We are under God's authority. God chooses, calls and equips us, and we have the armour of God to protect us from the evil one - how is wearing a headscarf going to defeat the devil?
It is a spiritual thing. You're looking at it physically. The man being the head does not mean that he is the boss. He is authority for her. Women are cheated so many times at many things. From mechanics, people fixings things in the home and many other things, but if the husband or any man is there they don't try to take advantage.
Being a Christian does not shield you from the devil as a matter of fact, it makes it worse. If you don't understand spiritually, I am wasting my time showing scripture, because you understand it the same. As the head you just see it as the man controlling the woman. Jesus is the head of the man and he don't control him. The man is to treat his wife the same as Christ treats the man. To preach and teach the man must be covered by Jesus, and not cover his head with a sprit other than the Holy Spirit. The churches are full of religious spirits, who try to imitate the Holy Spirit.
 
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Strong in Him

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It is a spiritual thing. You're looking at it physically.

I'm looking at it Scripturally.
The Bible does not say that ONLY men were created in the image of God, that women only reflect God's image from the man and that they are weaker.
Deborah, not her husband, was a prophetess and judge over all Israel, Judges 4:4.
The Samaritan woman at the well didn't have a husband and she, alone, was talking to Jesus. Yet he still revealed to her that he was the Messiah, and she went and told others.
Mary Magdalene was the first witness to the resurrection; Jesus didn't say "I'm not appearing to you unless your husband's present".

He is authority for her.

Yet Scripture records women serving and speaking for God without their husbands being present.

Women are cheated so many times at many things. From mechanics, people fixings things in the home and many other things, but if the husband or any man is there they don't try to take advantage.

That's not a Scriptural principle - that's because it's still a man's world and people, wrongly, assume that women are incapable.
Similarly when people see a person in a wheelchair and talk only to the person who's with them/pushing them - they make assumptions.

Being a Christian does not shield you from the devil as a matter of fact, it makes it worse.

Of course it does; before someone turns to Christ and repents of sin they belong to the devil or would do if they were to die.
The devil doesn't like losing people to God and tempts/tests Christians to try to destroy their relationship with God - I said that.

If you don't understand spiritually, I am wasting my time showing scripture,

You haven't shown me any Scripture to show that only males are created in the image of God and women "reflect" that and are weaker spiritually.

As the head you just see it as the man controlling the woman.

No I don't; where have I said that?

To preach and teach the man must be covered by Jesus, and not cover his head with a sprit other than the Holy Spirit. The churches are full of religious spirits, who try to imitate the Holy Spirit.

Your opinion; not Scripture.
Please show me where Deborah, Huldah, Mary Magdalene and Philip's daughters were "covered by men".
 
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Childofgodharrison

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I'm looking at it Scripturally.
The Bible does not say that ONLY men were created in the image of God, that women only reflect God's image from the man and that they are weaker.
Deborah, not her husband, was a prophetess and judge over all Israel, Judges 4:4.
The Samaritan woman at the well didn't have a husband and she, alone, was talking to Jesus. Yet he still revealed to her that he was the Messiah, and she went and told others.
Mary Magdalene was the first witness to the resurrection; Jesus didn't say "I'm not appearing to you unless your husband's present".



Yet Scripture records women serving and speaking for God without their husbands being present.



That's not a Scriptural principle - that's because it's still a man's world and people, wrongly, assume that women are incapable.
Similarly when people see a person in a wheelchair and talk only to the person who's with them/pushing them - they make assumptions.



Of course it does; before someone turns to Christ and repents of sin they belong to the devil or would do if they were to die.
The devil doesn't like losing people to God and tempts/tests Christians to try to destroy their relationship with God - I said that.



You haven't shown me any Scripture to show that only males are created in the image of God and women "reflect" that and are weaker spiritually.



No I don't; where have I said that?



Your opinion; not Scripture.
Please show me where Deborah, Huldah, Mary Magdalene and Philip's daughters were "covered by men".
1 peter 3:7, 7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered
Genesis 2:22-24 22Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man." 24That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh
Judges 4:4, 4Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time.
Jesus cast 7 demons out of Mary Magdalene, she didn't preach or teach. She loved and served Jesus.
 
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1 peter 3:7, 7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered

In those days women were regarded as the weaker vessel; it doesn't alter the fact that Scripture records a number of women who were quite strong and taught, or had some influence over, men.

Genesis 2:22-24 22Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man."

I'm not disputing that; I'm saying that the woman was not taken from man as a complete woman. A RIB was taken from Adam, the Lord still created a woman from that rib.
And Genesis 1:27 says, "Male and female he created THEM."
There is no Scriptural teaching which says that only males were created in the image of God and the women "deflected" from the men.

Judges 4:4, 4Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time.

That's what I said. Deborah was leading Israel; not "Deborah under her husband", or "with the covering of her husband".
Deborah gave several words from the Lord and also sorted out men's disputes - nowhere are we told that she consulted her husband before doing so.

Jesus cast 7 demons out of Mary Magdalene, she didn't preach or teach. She loved and served Jesus.

She was the first witness to the resurrection.
After the crucifixion the men ran off and hid, Mark 14:50, John 20:19. Mary went into the room where they were gathered, told them the Good News of the resurrection and gave them a message about what they were to do, Matthew 28:7, Mark 16:7. There may have been a couple of other women with her - but no men.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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In those days women were regarded as the weaker vessel; it doesn't alter the fact that Scripture records a number of women who were quite strong and taught, or had some influence over, men.



I'm not disputing that; I'm saying that the woman was not taken from man as a complete woman. A RIB was taken from Adam, the Lord still created a woman from that rib.
And Genesis 1:27 says, "Male and female he created THEM."
There is no Scriptural teaching which says that only males were created in the image of God and the women "deflected" from the men.



That's what I said. Deborah was leading Israel; not "Deborah under her husband", or "with the covering of her husband".
Deborah gave several words from the Lord and also sorted out men's disputes - nowhere are we told that she consulted her husband before doing so.



She was the first witness to the resurrection.
After the crucifixion the men ran off and hid, Mark 14:50, John 20:19. Mary went into the room where they were gathered, told them the Good News of the resurrection and gave them a message about what they were to do, Matthew 28:7, Mark 16:7. There may have been a couple of other women with her - but no men.
It seems that you think that I am trying to take something away from women, I'm not. I am a woman myself. I don't always do what my husbands think is the way to go, but I do listen to him because sometimes he keep me from making a mistake. He has also pull my butt out of the fire a few times. What I am meaning about Deborah is that she was married. Her husband didn't have to be there all the time, but he was around if she needed him. Do you think that he did not help her with anything? she probably ruled Israel and still went home and cooked something for her husband or made she that he had something to eat.
It is the spiritual order. It's the way that God set it up. No matter what we think, he is God and he does as he wills. Man united with woman, becomes one flesh. Which means that it was ordained by God to be that way.
 
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It seems that you think that I am trying to take something away from women,

No, I'm saying that Scripturally, and logically, your argument doesn't make sense.
There is nothing in Scripture that says that only men were created in the image of God and that women can only reflect, or have something of, his image if they are married to a man or have one to "cover" them. There is nothing to say that they can only serve God if they have a man, somewhere, in tow.
There are, and have been, single women who have not only survived without a husband but have served God very effectively - like Mother Teresa of Calcutta. As I have said, nuns aren't married.

I don't always do what my husbands think is the way to go, but I do listen to him because sometimes he keep me from making a mistake. He has also pull my butt out of the fire a few times.

That's as may be. I'm not saying that it's not good to be married, I'm saying that it's not crucial to be able to serve God.

What I am meaning about Deborah is that she was married.

I know - so?
We are not told that her husband played any part in her ruling over Israel, that she consulted him before giving Barak a word from the Lord or asked his permission or "covering" before going to kill the enemy. We aren't told anything about her husband or their marriage.

Her husband didn't have to be there all the time, but he was around if she needed him.

We don't actually know that.
And there is certainly no evidence that she consulted him before making decisions or acting.

Do you think that he did not help her with anything?

No idea; Scripture doesn't say.
Either he was irrelevant to Deborah's calling, or anything that he did wasn't important enough to be recorded.

It is the spiritual order. It's the way that God set it up.

Maybe in marriage. But women can, do and have serve/d God without being married; that's just a fact.

Man united with woman, becomes one flesh.

A husband united with his wife becomes one flesh.
Yet it is not necessary for a woman to have a husband before she can serve God. Nuns aren't, Mother Teresa of Calcutta wasn't. I don't know if Gladys Aylward got married in the end, but she was certainly single when she went out to China. We had a missionary who served God for over 20 years as a nurse in India. She only got married when she retired from the mission field.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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No, I'm saying that Scripturally, and logically, your argument doesn't make sense.
There is nothing in Scripture that says that only men were created in the image of God and that women can only reflect, or have something of, his image if they are married to a man or have one to "cover" them. There is nothing to say that they can only serve God if they have a man, somewhere, in tow.
There are, and have been, single women who have not only survived without a husband but have served God very effectively - like Mother Teresa of Calcutta. As I have said, nuns aren't married.



That's as may be. I'm not saying that it's not good to be married, I'm saying that it's not crucial to be able to serve God.



I know - so?
We are not told that her husband played any part in her ruling over Israel, that she consulted him before giving Barak a word from the Lord or asked his permission or "covering" before going to kill the enemy. We aren't told anything about her husband or their marriage.



We don't actually know that.
And there is certainly no evidence that she consulted him before making decisions or acting.



No idea; Scripture doesn't say.
Either he was irrelevant to Deborah's calling, or anything that he did wasn't important enough to be recorded.



Maybe in marriage. But women can, do and have serve/d God without being married; that's just a fact.



A husband united with his wife becomes one flesh.
Yet it is not necessary for a woman to have a husband before she can serve God. Nuns aren't, Mother Teresa of Calcutta wasn't. I don't know if Gladys Aylward got married in the end, but she was certainly single when she went out to China. We had a missionary who served God for over 20 years as a nurse in India. She only got married when she retired from the mission field.
I didn't say that woman can only reflect men. Where did you read that in my post? I'm saying that man was created and there is a part of him that God took out of him to help him. He made a woman. And together they can produce others. Neither one of them can produce others alone.
Mother Teresa worshiped another Jesus, not the Jesus who died on the cross. Her Jesus lives in a eucharist.
I didn't say you have to be married to serve Jesus, that's ridiculous. Preaching is what we started out discussing. The demons are watching all the time. They are very real. They hate Jesus and anyone who tell others about him. They have distorted everything about Jesus. They attack women who put themselves in the position to have Jesus as their covering, because that is not the order. No mater how spiritual the woman think she is. 1 Cor. 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God
Of course you can serve God without being married.
 
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Strong in Him

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I didn't say that woman can only reflect men. Where did you read that in my post?

I'm so sorry, I'm getting my threads mixed up.
Someone else said that in a thread on the same subject.

I'm saying that man was created and there is a part of him that God took out of him to help him. He made a woman.

Yes, I know.
But that does not mean subservience, nor that a woman is not able to function without a man.

Mother Teresa worshiped another Jesus, not the Jesus who died on the cross. Her Jesus lives in a eucharist.

There is no other Jesus.
There is only one person, both God and man, who has died on the cross for the sins of mankind - Jesus of Nazareth.

I didn't say you have to be married to serve Jesus, that's ridiculous.

I know it is. But that's what your posts seem to be implying - a woman needs a man to "cover" her.

Preaching is what we started out discussing.

It's still the case that a woman can preach without a husband or man in the background.

The demons are watching all the time. They are very real. They hate Jesus and anyone who tell others about him.

I know.
They will attack people who preach/talk about/live for Jesus. They don't care about the gender of the person preaching, only the message - that sin and death were defeated on the cross and people can have forgiveness and eternal life through Jesus.

They attack women who put themselves in the position to have Jesus as their covering, because that is not the order. No mater how spiritual the woman think she is. 1 Cor. 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God

Surely you're not saying that Jesus is not enough?? :eek:
That a woman cannot rely on Jesus alone to protect her, she has to get married/find a man so that HE can be her covering? Again, what happens with single Christian women? You've sidestepped Mother Teresa by claiming that she didn't believe in Jesus; what about others? And are you saying that I am not protected by the blood of Jesus, but my husband is and that somehow filters down to me? What happens then if he dies; I have to find someone else to protect me?

Please don't put men in the place of God; they're not that great.
 
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Kilk1

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Of course it's not a coincidence; Jesus chose and called 12 men to be his closest followers.
But that is very far from saying that it shows that women can't preach the Gospel.
It is a fact that Jesus chose a woman to be the first witness to the resurrection.
Women were considered to be unreliable witnesses, and, I've heard, weren't even allowed into a court of law; yet Jesus chose a woman to witness to him.
The 12 disciples were closest to Jesus and would be the ones entrusted with the task of preaching the Gospel and making disciples and were the future leaders of the church - yet they were all hiding in fear, and they weren't the first to hear about the risen Christ.
It was a woman who told them the Good News.



Yet Jesus spoke to, and healed, Gentiles - the Samaritan woman, the Syro-Phoenician woman, the Roman centurion's servant - and told the disciples they would be his witnesses in Samaria and all over the world, Matthew 28:20, Acts of the Apostles 1:8.



There's an obvious reason why all were men; women were 2nd class citizens in that society. I doubt anyone would have taken Jesus seriously if he had had female disciples. They may have just assumed he had a harem.
This in no way proves that God doesn't want women to preach the Gospel.

God the Father, in his awesome love, sent his only Son to die for our sins, so that we could be reconciled to him, become his children, have a relationship with him and receive his Spirit and every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Jesus told his disciples to preach this message far and wide - are you saying that God is going to be upset if that message is given to others by a woman?
The fact that women were the first to prove the gospel that Jesus taught the Samaritan woman, etc. proves that Jesus values women, no contest. Such also suggests that Jesus didn't care about the way society viewed women, so there's no contest there either. With these things in mind, does it make sense that Jesus would've let society's view of women seep into His selection of apostles?

And women certainly can teach people the gospel. The question is whether they can do things such as preaching a formal sermon in a church service.
 
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Kilk1

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Since no one has broached this the way I would, I'll just drop a shameless plug for Richard & Catherine Kroeger's (1992) book, I Suffer Not A Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy 2:11-15 in light of ancient evidence, and for some of the work by Spiros Zodhiates on this same topic.

For me, this is where I begin with this topic.
What interpretation does this book give? I'd be interested in hearing a summary of the book's interpretation!
 
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The fact that women were the first to prove the gospel that Jesus taught the Samaritan woman, etc. proves that Jesus values women, no contest. Such also suggests that Jesus didn't care about the way society viewed women, so there's no contest there either.

:oldthumbsup:

With these things in mind, does it make sense that Jesus would've let society's view of women seep into His selection of apostles?

I wouldn't presume to know what was in the Lord's mind at the time, nor the reasons for choosing who he did. But I think that, had he selected women to be in his closest disciples, people may have rejected him from the outset without even waiting to hear what he had to say.
Whereas a Rabbi with male disciples was the norm and acceptable.

And women certainly can teach people the gospel. The question is whether they can do things such as preaching a formal sermon in a church service.

How do you define a "formal sermon"?
I preach, but there might be those who say that I do not give formal sermons - especially if I'm using puppets or other visual aids.
And in practice, what's the difference between a woman leading a house group and explaining a Bible passage, teaching that passage in Bible college or school and preaching from the passage in a church building on a Sunday?

Your position seems to be rather unique. Usually when this topic is debated people either say "yes women can preach the Gospel", or "no they can't - because 1 Timothy 2:12 forbids women from teaching, or even speaking in church." I don't remember meeting anyone who says "yes, they can teach, but they can't preach". Preaching involves teaching, so what's the difference?
 
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