Does the bible ever declare that being black is a curse from God??

[peebly63]

Actually the issue was allowing black males to be LDS priests.

same thing, did they use scripture or were they just being prejudice??

they cannot have it both ways,...lol

they are either saying God told them to be prejudice in which case show us the scriptures or they themselves decided to be prejudice, personally i know which I find the most likely...

 

[Phantasman]

if the LDS don't see it that way why did they not allow blacks in to the mormons untill 1978???? was it there own prejudices???

Because they probably believed the blacks were cursed. Now they may not.

Do you believe that the Catholic church didn't do many of the same things throughout the centuries? Especially with women?

I don't believe that the Bible is Gods word, but I do believe that Gods words are in it. But the fact that it is the most powerful book on the planet, I am not naive enough to believe that that power has not been redefined, tainted and suggestive of other men who saw a need for change, whether good or bad.

 

[drstevej]

And you could be right. Nephi MAY have been talking of skin color. The LDS doesn't see it that way, though.

the problem with your approach is Nephi attributes this action/attitude to GOD and his statement is considered Scripture by the LDS. LDS who disagree are rejecting their Scripture. See the problem?

Did you read the whole book of Nephi, to get an idea of how he communicates his scripture, or did you use a part that jumped out at you from someone's study?

Read the whole book many times. Even read it from the LDS website. In fact, I was reading through the BoM and when I got to that text, my jaw dropped wide open...

Christians do the same thing with the Bible. Find something that is a contradiction and it isn't a contradiction to them because "Gods word" never contradicts itself. Is the problem blind Christians or that the Bible is not "Gods word"?

Some do, all do not. Explain what the term skin means in 2 Nephi 5:21 and how this is not racist. I'm all ears (and that is deliberately figurative language).

 

[Phantasman]

same thing, did they use scripture or were they just being prejudice??

they cannot have it both ways,...lol

they are either saying God told them to be prejudice in which case show us the scriptures or they themselves decided to be prejudice, personally i know which I find the most likely...

Man isn't perfect. The Bom isn't perfect. The Bible isn't perfect. Only God is perfect.

 

[Phantasman]

the problem with your approach is Nephi attributes this action/attitude to GOD and his statement is considered Scripture by the LDS. LDS who disagree are rejecting their Scripture. See the problem?





Read the whole book many times. Even read it from the LDS website. In fact, I was reading through the BoM and when I got to that text, my jaw dropped wide open...



Some do, all do not. Explain what the term skin means in 2 Nephi 5:21 and how this is not racist. I'm all ears (and that is deliberately figurative language).

See post 170

 

[Ran77]

same thing, did they use scripture or were they just being prejudice??

If you cannot tell the difference between the two concepts how can you expect to be able to sufficently discerning to discover the truth?

:o

 

[peebly63]

If you cannot tell the difference between the two concepts how can you expect to be able to sufficently discerning to discover the truth?

:o

well it's hard to tell with the LDS today's doctine is tomorrows opinion...lol

yet it all comes by revelation from God...i believe it...

 

[Ran77]

well it's hard to tell with the LDS today's doctine is tomorrows opinion...lol

I can see why you would want to side step that one. Not being able to differentiate between two concepts sends a message. Not a favorable one though.

 

[peebly63]

I can see why you would want to side step that one. Not being able to differentiate between two concepts sends a message. Not a favorable one though.

no side step needed ..lol

the LDS are quite transparent...

 

[Phantasman]

the LDS are quite transparent...

Then why have you started about 8 threads asking about their beliefs?

 

[Ran77]

Then why have you started about 8 threads asking about their beliefs?

Excellent point. Score one for Phantasman.

 

[drstevej]

Then why have you started about 8 threads asking about their beliefs?

You are not obligated to participate.

Sometimes the LDS attempt to obfuscate is transparent.

 

[williamgramsmith]

if it was a referral to spirit, why were blacks not allowed in the mormon church till 1978, are you saying it took all those years to work out skin meant spirit...

I really don't know how you can even say this with a straight face when I PERSONALLY have educated you on the facts on this.

1. "Blacks" WERE in fact mormons the entire history of the Church, they were baptized, we worshiped together, they were teachers, leaders, etc., and we did not segregate.
   
   
2. Those of "African" Lineage were denied the PRIESTHOOD, not a single person of anywhere was denied being baptized into the Church. Further, "blacks" were not denied the Priesthood, those of African Lineage were. Blacks of India, Central/South America, Islands etc. WERE given the Priesthood. Many of these men were JUST AS BLACK or more so than African blacks. The ban applied to lineage, not skin color.
   
   
3. The BOM was "never" used as a justification for the ban. Scriptures from the Bible, Book of Abraham, and the Book of Moses were.

 

[peebly63]

I really don't know how you can even say this with a straight face when I PERSONALLY have educated you on the facts on this.

1. "Blacks" WERE in fact mormons the entire history of the Church, they were baptized, we worshiped together, they were teachers, leaders, etc., and we did not segregate.
   
   
2. Those of "African" Lineage were denied the PRIESTHOOD, not a single person of anywhere was denied being baptized into the Church. Further, "blacks" were not denied the Priesthood, those of African Lineage were. Blacks of India, Central/South America, Islands etc. WERE given the Priesthood. Many of these men were JUST AS BLACK or more so than African blacks. The ban applied to lineage, not skin color.
   
   
3. The BOM was "never" used as a justification for the ban. Scriptures from the Bible, Book of Abraham, and the Book of Moses were.

of course but to what order of preisthood???

why was that do you think??

why was nephi so clear on blacks??

why did you need educating on your own religion...lol

 

[williamgramsmith]

of course but to what order of preisthood???

Any and ALL....

why was that do you think??

Be specific on what you are asking?

why was nephi so clear on blacks??

Nephi said NOTHING about "blacks", you are entirely clueless.
The BOM uses terms such as white and black in some cases to describe light and darkness, good and evil, etc., just as the BIBLE does in using similar descriptions on the same subjects.

Further, the BOM debunks your ignorant claim/interpretation in that at some points, the so-called "black" Lamanites and otherwise were called WHITE, when the converted to the Gospel.

why did you need educating on your own religion...lol

You've said something like this a few times, are you okay?
That's not what I said, I said I've educated YOU several times already, and yet you repeat the same falsehoods. Clearly you aren't learning anything, but prefer lying propaganda over truth and fact.

 

[peebly63]

Any and ALL....



Be specific on what you are asking?



Nephi said NOTHING about "blacks", you are entirely clueless.
The BOM uses terms such as white and black in some cases to describe light and darkness, good and evil, etc., just as the BIBLE does in using similar descriptions on the same subjects.

Further, the BOM debunks your ignorant claim/interpretation in that at some points, the so-called "black" Lamanites and otherwise were called WHITE, when the converted to the Gospel.



You've said something like this a few times, are you okay?
That's not what I said, I said I've educated YOU several times already, and yet you repeat the same falsehoods. Clearly you aren't learning anything, but prefer lying propaganda over truth and fact.

so you are saying from the day mormonism started blacks were allowed in the Melchizedek priesthood?? is that right...

so kimball lied about the revelation from God to reverse the racial restriction policy in 1978??? ok thats good...

he said it was from God, was that opinion and for him to turn it round does it make sense that the "restriction" had to exist??

yep you do know it all?? can you continue to educate me please !!!!

 

[williamgramsmith]

so you are saying from the day mormonism started blacks were allowed in the Melchizedek priesthood?? is that right...

so kimball lied about the revelation from God to reverse the racial restriction policy in 1978??? ok thats good...

he said it was from God, was that opinion and for him to turn it round does it make sense that the "restriction" had to exist??

yep you do know it all?? can you continue to educate me please !!!!

Hey everyone, I know we are not to "personally" attack people, but Lord HELP ME from this being....!!!! :o

I will again REPEAT....

The "ban" applied to the African Lineage, not "blacks".
Blacks of India, Central/South America, the Islands etc. many of which were just as black as the blackest African black WERE GIVEN THE PRIESTHOOD, at ALL LEVELS!!!!

People who are interested in the actual truth of things focus and see ALL the truth, not just the truth they want to see. Oooo ooooo some mormons said "blacks" in history, so that means it must have ONLY been "blacks". WRONG!!!

 

[peebly63]

Hey everyone, I know we are not to "personally" attack people, but Lord HELP ME from this being....!!!! :o

I will again REPEAT....

The "ban" applied to the African Lineage, not "blacks".
Blacks of India, Central/South America, the Islands etc. many of which were just as black as the blackest African black WERE GIVEN THE PRIESTHOOD, at ALL LEVELS!!!!

People who are interested in the actual truth of things focus and see ALL the truth, not just the truth they want to see. Oooo ooooo some mormons said "blacks" in history, so that means it must have ONLY been "blacks". WRONG!!!

so the ban was on Africans, just because of race I assume, so you aren't racist to all black just Africans, well that's ok then why didn't you say...


so now we know as you told us the ban was on Africans how did the LDS get the revelation from God to be racist, what actual writing from the BOM or other books told then not to allow Africans...

 

[fatboys]

so the ban was on Africans, just because of race I assume, so you aren't racist to all black just Africans, well that's ok then why didn't you say...


so now we know as you told us the ban was on Africans how did the LDS get the revelation from God to be racist, what actual writing from the BOM or other books told then not to allow Africans...

I will try and explain the ban. The Ban was not against black skinned men. It was against a lineage. There were men of all colors who held the priesthood. The ban only limited them from holding the priesthood. They were never denied eternal blessings.

 

[williamgramsmith]

A further fact that Peeply ignores in trying to justify his "racist" claims against Mormonism and Mormons is that he doesn't know there were WHITE groups and individuals who were of African Lineage who were denied the Priesthood.

A further fact he ignores is that if he's going to call Mormons "racist" because of these, then the God of the Old Testament was 'racist' also when he "banned" all other Lineages other than the Lineage of Levi from the Priesthood.

Also Christ himself was racist when he "banned" the Gospel to be given to the Gentiles to ONLY be given to the Jew until he said otherwise, which occurred AFTER his death by Revelation to Peter.

You can't have it both ways Peebly.... If you are going to condemn Mormons for something that mimics perfectly what is also recorded in the Bible, then you must condemn the Bible and God. Further, anyone that knows history would be able to see reasonable justification for why the African wasn't given the Priesthood, he was still under slavery and racism. The Priesthood of God is not mocked....