Does the bible ever declare that being black is a curse from God??

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peebly63

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lol...so from your own mouth the ban was against Africans, that is what you said, what colour are the majority of Africans, though I am sure that had no relevance to the ban...

you said the ban stopped them from holding the priesthood, could you specify which priesthood you mean please...??

so you mean black people could be saved but not get in to the priesthood??

are you saying you have in the lds allowed blacks to hold the melchizedek preisthood since the mormons began??


would you please show the scriptures used to say that the Africans should be banned??
 
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peebly63

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hmmm these quotes especially the term negro... seem to think it was not about lineage but colour, what do you think folks??


President Brigham Young:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses 10:110)
President Joseph Fielding Smith:

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less." (Doctrines of Salvation, p. 61)
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

"Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned…" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 343)
Apostle Mark E. Petersen:

"God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death…
"The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders…

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth…We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject…

"I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'…

"Now let's talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation…

"When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation…

"Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them…

"The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there…

"Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, 'what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.' Only here we have the reverse of the thing - what God hath separated, let not man bring together again.

"Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood…This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory." (Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Race Problems - As They Affect The Church, Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954)
 
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RDKirk

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OOOh my!---I think Moses, having married an Ethiopian, would have had a word or 2 to say about this!!--Not to mention Paul, baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch!!

It was Philip (the deacon, not the apostle) who baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Actually, this event is part of a thesis I'm building on the necessity of the Holy Spirit going to extreme measures at this point in time to break the thick ethnic barriers the Jews had built around themselves.

The propositoin that Philip was a Hellenist Jew rather than a Hebrew Jew may have been a factor in the Holy Spirit choosing him to go to Samaria and to this Ethiopian. Notice that the Holy Spirit was singularly instrumental in the evangelizing of both Cornelius and the eunuch--and these two conversions are in direct fulfilment of the prophesy of Isaiah 56.

“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant—to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.

And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer.

Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
 
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mmksparbud

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It was Philip (the deacon, not the apostle) who baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Actually, this event is part of a thesis I'm building on the necessity of the Holy Spirit going to extreme measures at this point in time to break the thick ethnic barriers the Jews had built around themselves.

The propositoin that Philip was a Hellenist Jew rather than a Hebrew Jew may have been a factor in the Holy Spirit choosing him to go to Samaria and to this Ethiopian. Notice that the Holy Spirit was singularly instrumental in the evangelizing of both Cornelius and the eunuch--and these two conversions are in direct fulfilment of the prophesy of Isaiah 56.

“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant—to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.

And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer.

Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”


OOps!! Yes, it was Phillip--:blush:
 
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peebly63

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I would argue that one of the posters must be misinformed...

According to President Gordon B. Hinckley, he simply doesn't know why Blacks were denied the priesthood until 1978:

"HN: Until 1978 no person of color attained the priesthood in your church. Why did it take so long to overcome the racism?
"GBH: I don't know. I don't know. I can only say that. (long pause) But it's here now. We're carrying on a very substantial work on Africa for instance and in Brazil. We're working among their people developing them. We've had them among the leadership of the Church and they're able to do a great work and we love them and appreciate them and we respect them and we are trying to help them." (Gordon B. Hinckley Interview, ZDF German Television, Salt Lake City, Utah, January 29, 2002, Conducted by Helmut Nemetschek)

it seems that a mormon president knew no person of colour attained preisthood prior to 1978, yet he did not no why??

yet a poster on here said that it was not about blacks but africans, as if that makes it ok and blacks had always been allowed the preisthood one of those two is clearly wrong!!!

yet the big issue really is white people of colour were excluded and seemingly for no reason...
 
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fatboys

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I would argue that one of the posters must be misinformed...

According to President Gordon B. Hinckley, he simply doesn't know why Blacks were denied the priesthood until 1978:

"HN: Until 1978 no person of color attained the priesthood in your church. Why did it take so long to overcome the racism?
"GBH: I don't know. I don't know. I can only say that. (long pause) But it's here now. We're carrying on a very substantial work on Africa for instance and in Brazil. We're working among their people developing them. We've had them among the leadership of the Church and they're able to do a great work and we love them and appreciate them and we respect them and we are trying to help them." (Gordon B. Hinckley Interview, ZDF German Television, Salt Lake City, Utah, January 29, 2002, Conducted by Helmut Nemetschek)

it seems that a mormon president knew no person of colour attained preisthood prior to 1978, yet he did not no why??

yet a poster on here said that it was not about blacks but africans, as if that makes it ok and blacks had always been allowed the preisthood one of those two is clearly wrong!!!

yet the big issue really is white people of colour were excluded and seemingly for no reason...

You are faulting him for being honest? There have been lots of speculation as to why the blood lines of Cain were banned from the Priesthood. But we really don't know why. All we do know is that the ban was lifted and all males can enjoy the blessings in this life. But why is this so important to you? Throughout biblical history whole groups have been denied holding the priesthood. Modern Christanity have denied not just blacks but those of other races as well. And Christians have been very racist throughout their history. It wasn't Mormons that brought the African over here to be slaves.
 
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peebly63

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You are faulting him for being honest? There have been lots of speculation as to why the blood lines of Cain were banned from the Priesthood. But we really don't know why. All we do know is that the ban was lifted and all males can enjoy the blessings in this life. But why is this so important to you? Throughout biblical history whole groups have been denied holding the priesthood. Modern Christanity have denied not just blacks but those of other races as well. And Christians have been very racist throughout their history. It wasn't Mormons that brought the African over here to be slaves.

faulting him for being honest, that would be a first for a mormon...lol

some serious problems, a mormon on here claimed blacks were allowed the preisthood it was africans that couldn't, that is still prejudice and was also wrong as your president agreed people of colour were banned up till 1978, which is still prejudice..

your own president claimed he did not know the reason for the ban, does he not read your own writings because it says in their why...

did the word not come from God according to the mormons so how come God didn't bother letting the new president know to ban blacks...

does that help...
 
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fatboys

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faulting him for being honest, that would be a first for a mormon...lol

some serious problems, a mormon on here claimed blacks were allowed the preisthood it was africans that couldn't, that is still prejudice and was also wrong as your president agreed people of colour were banned up till 1978, which is still prejudice..

your own president claimed he did not know the reason for the ban, does he not read your own writings because it says in their why...

did the word not come from God according to the mormons so how come God didn't bother letting the new president know to ban blacks...

does that help...

Why should he read them, you certainly do not read anything we ask you to read. Look you keep bring up that the ban was placed on all people of color. It was not. It is a lineage. And whether or not you think it is prejudice is not up to us as LDS. The Lord made the ban. If we were so prejudice why did the church as whole rejoice in the revelation? I baptized a black fellow on my mission before the ban was lifted. He is still active to the day he died. I had asked him about how he felt about not being able to hold the priesthood. He said he had looked for years for the church he knew Christ had set up. The LDS matched perfectly and he was not going to let something like being denied the priesthood to keep him away from what he knew was true. When the ban was lifted I got a call from him. We both had tears of joy shed that day. I remember when we tracted him up. It was late, and it was dark and cold outside. My companion and I had been knocking on doors all day long. Not much success. I was trying to be positive, and then the thought came to me as we knocked on this mans door. Who ever answered the door is going to be a bishop. I told my companion this, and when he answered the door, we both looked at each other and were speechless. The man kept asking us what we wanted, and we just stood there. Finally I spoke and said who we were, and that we had an important message from Jesus Christ. He said, "come on in." His whole family was there and what a hoot he was. He was always joking around. He said that he had heard of Mormons, but expected when he saw them we would be wearing long beards and black hats. He said that his mother had used Mormons to scare them to come in from outside in the dark. She said many times the words would be, "Don't stay out to late or the Mormons will get you". Then he would laugh with a big loud laugh you could hears miles away. He has passed on now, but he holds a special place in my heart as do all those I had the priviledge to teach.

Just because you can not accept the restored Gospel, does not mean others who are searching are stupid, or blinded by our great powers to decieve people. I do not have a problem with you being satisfied with what you have and believe in. But there are millions of people who have been praying to God for guidance. And like I have said before, many many times I have taught others about the restored Gospel, they already believed it. The spirit whispered to them truths what were the same was what we taught them. There are people everywhere in the world who God has prepared to hear the gospel. It is our mission to find these people no matter where they are.
 
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drstevej

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Why should he read them, you certainly do not read anything we ask you to read. Look you keep bring up that the ban was placed on all people of color. It was not. It is a lineage. And whether or not you think it is prejudice is not up to us as LDS. The Lord made the ban. If we were so prejudice why did the church as whole rejoice in the revelation? I baptized a black fellow on my mission before the ban was lifted. He is still active to the day he died. I had asked him about how he felt about not being able to hold the priesthood.

interesting that you describe this banned person as a BLACK fellow (color) yet claim the issue is lineage not color.
 
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peebly63

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Why should he read them, you certainly do not read anything we ask you to read. Look you keep bring up that the ban was placed on all people of color. It was not. It is a lineage. And whether or not you think it is prejudice is not up to us as LDS. The Lord made the ban. If we were so prejudice why did the church as whole rejoice in the revelation? I baptized a black fellow on my mission before the ban was lifted. He is still active to the day he died. I had asked him about how he felt about not being able to hold the priesthood. He said he had looked for years for the church he knew Christ had set up. The LDS matched perfectly and he was not going to let something like being denied the priesthood to keep him away from what he knew was true. When the ban was lifted I got a call from him. We both had tears of joy shed that day. I remember when we tracted him up. It was late, and it was dark and cold outside. My companion and I had been knocking on doors all day long. Not much success. I was trying to be positive, and then the thought came to me as we knocked on this mans door. Who ever answered the door is going to be a bishop. I told my companion this, and when he answered the door, we both looked at each other and were speechless. The man kept asking us what we wanted, and we just stood there. Finally I spoke and said who we were, and that we had an important message from Jesus Christ. He said, "come on in." His whole family was there and what a hoot he was. He was always joking around. He said that he had heard of Mormons, but expected when he saw them we would be wearing long beards and black hats. He said that his mother had used Mormons to scare them to come in from outside in the dark. She said many times the words would be, "Don't stay out to late or the Mormons will get you". Then he would laugh with a big loud laugh you could hears miles away. He has passed on now, but he holds a special place in my heart as do all those I had the priviledge to teach.

Just because you can not accept the restored Gospel, does not mean others who are searching are stupid, or blinded by our great powers to decieve people. I do not have a problem with you being satisfied with what you have and believe in. But there are millions of people who have been praying to God for guidance. And like I have said before, many many times I have taught others about the restored Gospel, they already believed it. The spirit whispered to them truths what were the same was what we taught them. There are people everywhere in the world who God has prepared to hear the gospel. It is our mission to find these people no matter where they are.

you see the problem is as usual, you say one thing and your chosen president says another, now if you are claiming greater authority than a president of your religion thats up to you but when the question was put to your president why the ban on people of colour, that was not, Why the people of african lineage, even though banning african lineage is still bad as it is prejudice, your president answered I don't know why we did it, so he confirms the ban was their till 1978, then to further confuse mattters one of your fellow mormons claims that blacks have always been able to hold the preisthoods at all levels yet from this interview it is clear the ban was on all people of colour so again someone is lying...

And while I am not at liberty to know all your doctrines and their changes over the years you would think a president of your religion should know them and why the burning in their bosom did not show that the ban in the first place was prejudice...and therefore not from God..
 
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fatboys

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you see the problem is as usual, you say one thing and your chosen president says another, now if you are claiming greater authority than a president of your religion thats up to you but when the question was put to your president why the ban on people of colour, that was not, Why the people of african lineage, even though banning african lineage is still bad as it is prejudice, your president answered I don't know why we did it, so he confirms the ban was their till 1978, then to further confuse mattters one of your fellow mormons claims that blacks have always been able to hold the preisthoods at all levels yet from this interview it is clear the ban was on all people of colour so again someone is lying...

And while I am not at liberty to know all your doctrines and their changes over the years you would think a president of your religion should know them and why the burning in their bosom did not show that the ban in the first place was prejudice...and therefore not from God..

It was refering to the Negro. There have always been members of every color.
 
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drstevej

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He was black and just stop the nit picking would ya. It is really annoying.

I am not nit picking. LDS posters here emphatically say the priesthood prohibition/OD 2 had to do with African lineage and NOT skin color.

This "nit" is of LDS "picking".

AND to get to the OP question: LDS Scripture (2 Nephi 5:21)records the God of LDS Scripture turning SKIN black so those being cursed would not be enticing to His white and delight some folk.

The Southern Baptists acknowledged the racism of their past

Be it further RESOLVED, That we apologize to all African-Americans for condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systemic racism in our lifetime; and we genuinely repent of racism of which we have been guilty, whether consciously (Psalm 19:13) or unconsciously (Leviticus 4:27);

The question arises: Why are LDS unwilling to make a straight forward acknowledgement and apology instead of picking nits (to use your term)?
 
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fatboys

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I am not nit picking. LDS posters here emphatically say the priesthood prohibition/OD 2 had to do with African lineage and NOT skin color.

This "nit" is of LDS "picking".

AND to get to the OP question: LDS Scripture (2 Nephi 5:21)records the God of LDS Scripture turning SKIN black so those being cursed would not be enticing to His white and delight some folk.

The Southern Baptists acknowledged the racism of their past



The question arises: Why are LDS unwilling to make a straight forward acknowledgement and apology instead of picking nits (to use your term)?

I'll apologize for not knowing why the ban existed. I will apologize for those who felt they were superior to others. I will apologize for me telling jokes at others expense. If the church is true, and it has prophets who lead this church, the ban existed for a reason that we are not told. You can make it out as racist, and I am telling you that it was not. You don't care for what I have to say about it, and frankly I don't care about what you believe about it. That is your problem not mine. If you can not get over this problem, then you will struggle being LDS. If you have no intention of being LDS, then go on your way.
 
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peebly63

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I'll apologize for not knowing why the ban existed. I will apologize for those who felt they were superior to others. I will apologize for me telling jokes at others expense. If the church is true, and it has prophets who lead this church, the ban existed for a reason that we are not told. You can make it out as racist, and I am telling you that it was not. You don't care for what I have to say about it, and frankly I don't care about what you believe about it. That is your problem not mine. If you can not get over this problem, then you will struggle being LDS. If you have no intention of being LDS, then go on your way.

we don't make it racist your religion did, it still does not answer the question as to why another of your religion was convinced people of colour could hold all priesthoods , when they certainly were wrong..

it is your problem as your religion has made God a racist ...
 
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drstevej

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I'll apologize for not knowing why the ban existed. I will apologize for those who felt they were superior to others. I will apologize for me telling jokes at others expense. If the church is true, and it has prophets who lead this church, the ban existed for a reason that we are not told. You can make it out as racist, and I am telling you that it was not. You don't care for what I have to say about it, and frankly I don't care about what you believe about it. That is your problem not mine.


I'm gonna also need an apology for LDS deity turning folks black as a curse.

If you can not get over this problem, then you will struggle being LDS. If you have no intention of being LDS, then go on your way.

This forum is not intended to win people to LDS. LDS is an Unorthodox belief system here. I am free to post here as are you. So please do not tell people to leave if they disagree with you.
 
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peebly63

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I'm gonna also need an apology for LDS deity turning folks black as a curse.



This forum is not intended to win people to LDS. LDS is an Unorthodox belief system here. I am free to post here as are you. So please do not tell people to leave if they disagree with you.

hmm i got told to stop posting by a newbie poster...perha[s they don't like open discussion...
 
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Ran77

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Acts 10: 28

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


I find it humorous that the LDS are taken to task for withholding the priesthood for a season from a group when our accusers are members of a group that withheld any membership at all against the gentile. Not to mention that during this period of time I imagine that many of the denominations of our critics did not embrace blacks as part of their clergy.


:)
 
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