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Featured Does someone have to be baptized with The Holy Spirit to be Filled With The Spirit?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please include scriptures in your response.
    John 7:
    37
    On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying,
    If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
    38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers
    of living water.
    39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;
    for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    Acts 4:
    8
    Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:
    9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he
    has been made well,
    10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

    Luke 1:
    15
    For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.

    41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
    42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

    67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied.

    Exodus 31:
    1
    Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
    2 See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah.
    3 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge,
    and in all manner of workmanship.


    Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming
    after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you
    with the Holy Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  2. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    No... but The Baptism of the Holy Spirit makes the filling permanent.

    John witnessed the first BHS on Jesus and was told to recognise Messiah this way...

    All others were temporarily filled.

    See Jn 1:32
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What about here Carl?
    Acts 4:
    8
    Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:
    9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he
    has been made well,
    10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

    Peter had already been endued with power on Pentecost, and he just performed a miracle
    at the Temple. It sounds like the expression coincides
    with having a specific word from God,
    as the individuals in Luke 1. Or like the prophets such as Jeremiah, who could not hold back from speaking. David says something similar in one of the Psalms, that he could not hold back from

    the utterance of the Spirit. I will have look that one up.
    What do you think?
     
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  4. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    John 1:35 starts with a public ministry. All true believers can witness to others, although to be a paster or minister of a congregation, one needs education and training. Consider being a young lamb (a believer), Satan will bombard you endlessly, consider then when you gain a certain victory over sin in life and become a decean (Satan will buffet you harder again). Then consider if you become and elder ( Satan will come again with a different tactic to destroy). If one reaches presbytery level, Satan will come with more force again.

    If your called to the ministry of a congregation, Satan will come even stronger again with various tactics, he'll use the church membership, the deacons, the elders, the presbytery too bombard you. Its never easy.

    If you become a moderator like james, WOW, you need to be a fully mature Christian.

    God's method of maturing as a Christian is putting you through the trials.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  5. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit within and upon is still subject to the Father.
    The empowering is there in response to the Fathers purpose.

    Sometimes the Fathers purpose is to rest.

    Sometimes the Fathers purpose is to act with empowering.

    Like Jesus we can only do what we see the Father doing.
     
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  6. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    No. If you are born again the Spirit is already within you. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is simply you giving God permission to let the gifts of the Spirit flow through you. He doesn't force that upon people.
     
  7. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    The surest way to be sealed with the Holy Spirit is Chrismation or Confirmation. I like that the Eastern churches do this to infants immediately after baptism, and then give them the Eucharist, rather than making them wait for both in the Roman Rite tradition.
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Church traditions are off topic for this thread. There are dedicated forums to discuss such
    denominational preferences. The topic is a comparison of the Scriptural use of the terms
    "filled with the Spirit" and "baptized in the Holy Spirit".
     
  9. fwGod

    fwGod Well-Known Member

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    Being baptized with water is immersion.. fully dunked. Being filled with water is like a container that's full to the brim.

    Being full to overflowing is like a river in floodstage. Like Jesus said, "Out of their belly shall flow rivers of living water."
     
  10. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    There was very limited "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" like in Acts 2, Acts 4 and Acts 10, but Christians could be full of the Holy Spirit,
    Acts 6:3
    Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them.
     
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  11. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    I am specifically discussing how one is baptized in the Spirit, which is through the holy mystery of Chrismation or Confirmation.
     
  12. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, as you described it, a tradition of your denomination. Post #1 establishes the topic and even
    the title of the thread makes it fairly clear that this is a discussion comparing scriptures that speak
    of being filled with the Spirit, and references to being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
    If you could include scripture references with your response, that would be greatly appreciated.
     
  13. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think "filled" and "baptized" are simply two different ways to express the exact same thing.

    That said, I think Satan has tried to copy it (possibly as some people and their gospels seem positively demonically influenced) so I think we should always compare our beliefs and influences with Scripture, and make certain we aren't off the rails.

    As the Apostle said, said; even if we or an angel from heaven gives you a different Gospel than the one we have given you let them be under God's curse. (Galatians 1:8)

    We must stay vigilant that we aren't off the rails, and that we are staying true to Scripture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  14. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These are some powerful insights, especially Ga 1:8. The only thing I would point out is that
    being baptized in the Holy Spirit would seem to be a one time experience for a convert.

    Acts 1:
    4
    And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem,
    but to wait for the Promise of the Father, which, you have heard from Me;
    for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not
    many days from now.


    Being "filled with the Holy Spirit" is shown to be situational to meet a special demand, as the
    Lord promised.

    Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel...
    Luke 21:
    13
    But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.
    14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
    15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to
    contradict or resi
    st.

    All these before Christ was even born.
     
  15. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There may be an empowering filling for ministry (in specific)..

    This the Bible seems to indicate...
     
  16. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Acts 1-2, Ephesians 1:13-14, and indeed the gift of myrhh (which is chrism) to our Lord in His nativity by the three Magi.
     
  17. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    And because Scripture lies in the interpretation and not the reading, the surest way to do that is to rely on the Wesleyan Quadrilateral of Scripture, Tradition, Reason and Experience, with the tradition sourced, based on experience, chiefly from three sources, those being the Early Church Fathers, certain reformers such as Jan Hus, Archbishop Cranmer, and Martin Luther, and later Protestant thinkers such as Archbishop Laud and John Wesley, who pursued Patristic doctrine and set aside Scholastic innovation*, and finally, owing to the intense experience of martyrdom in the Eastern churches (EO, OO, Assyrian), from Muslims, Communists and even Western Christians, from the theologians of those churches, because wherever people die confessing Christ, the Church can be found in its majestic fullness, because that is where people are truly throwing off sin and becoming human.
     
  18. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    There's a member on here tturt who explained the doctrine of baptisms very well. I've lost the post. A baptism of the Holy Spirit is like visitations from the Lord. He drops by when you least expect it. You could be sitting about like Abraham in Genesis 18:1-8 or in church, a prayer meeting, alone or doing outreach.

    Divine Visitation Pt2


    You could be in the valley of despair like the Shulamite woman in the Song of Solomon.
    Visitation one, (He, Christ comes to reassure the believer) Song of Solomon 1:15-2:7
    Visitation two, (He comes to reveal) Song of Solomon 2:8-13
    Visitation three, (He comes to respond) Song of Solomon 3:1-5
    Visitation four, (He comes to recognise) Song of Solomon 4:1-16
    Visitation five, (He comes to receive) Song of Solomon 4:12-5:1
    Visitation six, (He comes to revive) Song of Solomon 5:2-8
    Visitation seven, (He comes to rescue), (Song of Solomon 8:5-7

    Then there's the New Testament, be filled (plural) with the Holy Spirit.
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That's a key distinction.
    The indwelling Spirit is within, obviously. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is the Spirit on. Two different things.

    Acts 1:8
    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
     
  20. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    Demonic Faith
     
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