Does sinful man deserve God’s justice?

[Tone]

Justice is that the wages of sin is death. Just is that He follows through.

Yes He makes it conform according to law.

Yes, but also there is a positive side...the blessings.

*For instance, the blessing of Shabbat (today)!

 

[Tone]

Galatians 6:8
"For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

2 Corinthians 9:6
"But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully."


Will this be true in "heaven" as well?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, but also there is a positive side...the blessings.

*For instance,the blessing of Shabbat (today)!

We are probably splitting hairs at this point.

 

[Tone]

We are probably splitting hairs at this point.

Maybe...I might start a thread on it!

 

[Hammster]

Galatians 6:8
"For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

2 Corinthians 9:6
"But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully."


Will this be true in "heaven" as well?

Yes. We will obey perfectly, though.

 

[Tone]

Yes. We will obey perfectly, though.

Obey what? So, if in heaven, we reap blessings from obeying the law...is this same transaction, so to speak, in effect here and now?

 

[Hammster]

Obey what? So, if in heaven, we reap blessings from obeying the law...is this same transaction, so to speak, in effect here and now?

If by “we” you mean believers, then yes, there’s blessings when we are obedient. And discipline when we are not.

 

[Bobber]

Wow. That’s completely unbiblical. If God is obligated to do anything, then grace and mercy are meaningless.

Only from the standpoint of a Calvinist who is trying to push their position which it seems you've subtlety tried to do in this thread. You need to consider the true meaning of grace isn't found in your reasoning but it's rather this.....one cannot be saved by trying to keep the Mosaic laws of morality. Because God says remove your attempts to do that by merely trusting in Jesus THAT'S GRACE as defined by the Bible. I'll give it to you for free without you're having to work and strive.

In other words you don't have to in yourself work your way up to some morality standard God has done this In Christ. That's not to say that because of men born a certain way of being a sinner of no choice of their own that it wouldn't be right and just for God to provide a salvation for them. And you can't say well that wouldn't be grace then but you're stretching the grace theme beyond the perimeters of it's scriptural usage, and again I repeat....it's scriptural usage.

 

[Tone]

If by “we” you mean believers, then yes, there’s blessings when we are obedient. And discipline when we are not.

In heaven?

*I'm starting a thread on this soon.

 

[Hammster]

Only from the standpoint of a Calvinist who is trying to push their position which it seems you've subtlety tried to do in this thread. You need to consider the true meaning of grace isn't found in your reasoning but it's rather this.....one cannot be saved by trying to keep the Mosaic laws of morality. Because God says remove your attempts to do that by merely trusting in Jesus THAT'S GRACE as defined by the Bible. I'll give it to you for free without you're having to work and strive.

In other words you don't have to in yourself work your way up to some morality standard God has done this In Christ. That's not to say that because of men born a certain way of being a sinner of no choice of their own that it wouldn't be right and just for God to provide a salvation for them. And you can't say well that wouldn't be grace then but you're stretching the grace theme beyond the perimeters of it's scriptural usage, and again I repeat....it's scriptural usage.

How have I stretched it? Help me to understand.

 

[Hammster]

In heaven?

Here. Isn’t that what you asked that I responded to?

 

[Tone]

Here. Isn’t that what you asked that I responded to?

Obey what? So, if in heaven, we reap blessings from obeying the law...is this same transaction, so to speak, in effect here and now?

So...both.

May be drifting off topic here so:

Heaven's Law

 

[danielmears]

For the sake of peaceful discussion I will say, no. Why would a God of love give man/woman a short span of maybe 70 years to figure out, with God all things are possible, and torch you if you are having difficulties and die/pass prior to coming to faith? Seems a bit harsh, but the scriptures say He is longsuffering, wanting us to be saved. Food for thought...

 

[Hammster]

For the sake of peaceful discussion I will say, no. Why would a God of love give man/woman a short span of maybe 70 years to figure out, with God all things are possible, and torch you if you are having difficulties and die/pass prior to coming to faith? Seems a bit harsh, but the scriptures say He is longsuffering, wanting us to be saved. Food for thought...

The wages of sin is death.

 

[danielmears]

The wages of sin is death.

But, why?

 

[Calvin_1985]

The wages of sin is death. I deserve every ounce of misery which I invite upon myself by my miserable behavior; my sin incurs every harsh judgment of the Law so that, in the end, I should be found to be the miserable wretch that I know myself to be by the Law.

It is not God's will, however, that I find myself dead and in deepest darkest hell, but that I have life with Him by His Son. And so thanks be to God.

-CryptoLutheran

You don't have to remain in the state that has seeing that By the Law you are a Wretch. Fully trusting in Christ alone will free you from that and give you power over it to establish it and allows you to be living by the Spirit of the Law rather than being under it in Human nature. Come and drink of the Living Waters. You've been com passing your mountain long enough. Go into the courtyard and Hear Jesus Speak.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So what we deserve is justice. What we receive, as believers, is mercy.

Only if you view justice as punitive, and that death and hell is God actively punishing sinners.

But Scripture speaks of justice better than that. Justice for the poor, the hungry, the widow, and the orphan, isn't punishment. Justice for the poor is that they no longer suffer in their poverty, justice for the hungry is that they are fed, etc. Further, we have Romans 1:17: that the justice of God is revealed through the Gospel from faith to faith. This isn't punishment, this is the justice by which God justifies sinners.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You don't have to remain in the state that has seeing that By the Law you are a Wretch. Fully trusting in Christ alone will free you from that and give you power over it to establish it and allows you to be living by the Spirit of the Law rather than being under it in Human nature. Come and drink of the Living Waters. You've been com passing your mountain long enough. Go into the courtyard and Hear Jesus Speak.

Simul iustus et peccator.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[inquiring mind]

Simple straightforward question. Does sinful man (all of us) deserve the justice of God?

I believe so... according to the Bible we’ve got it coming (2 Corinthians 5:10; Ecclesiastes 12:14). In light of those scriptures, it seems justice could mean either a good outcome or a bad one, depending on our actions here. However, it’s not a question of our innocence or guilt, for we are all guilty. But, it’s Jesus Christ’s innocence, and what He did for us in God’s plan of salvation that makes the difference.

If we’ve repented and accepted Him into our hearts, do we still sin? Yes, because there are still two laws at work in us, God’s law and the law of sin (man’s sinful nature). But, through God’s law and Christ’s saving grace the Spirit brings the control of righteousness, and if He is in us, then that control makes us slaves to God’s law and we are no longer slaves to the law of sin. Paul discusses this in Romans 6-8.

So, the long and short of it is, yes, we all sin and deserve justice, but God provides a way for us to avoid condemnation.

 

[RDKirk]

Simple straightforward question. Does sinful man (all of us) deserve the justice of God?

Did you really mean "Does sinful man (all of us) deserve the mercy of God?"

I, for one, do not want justice. I hope for mercy.

And, no, I do not deserve mercy. If I deserved it, it wouldn't be mercy, it would be justice.