Does Scripture account for the age of dinosaurs?

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From the February 2009 Trumpet Print Edition » Does Scripture account for the age of dinosaurs?

Dinosaur Tracks, the almost homemade-looking sign says on the side of Highway 160 just west of Tuba City, Arizona, on the way to the Grand Canyon. The expanse of fossils and footprints, scattered throughout this portion of the Painted Desert on a Navajo Indian reservation, attests to a dramatic moment in Earth’s history.

The site lies some miles north of an ancient meteoric crater, and the story seems relatively clear from the evidence left behind. Some footprints indicate running—confusion as traffic collided in the final moments of a chaotic world. Yet, the majority of the footprints seem to face the direction of the crater—as if these large reptiles were transfixed by a fiery display in the sky. The world around them was collapsing. Precipitation had muddied the terrain. When the meteor hit, scorching heat burst in all directions, baking this dinosaur community right into earth—the footprints, the eggs, the dung and even an almost-entire dinosaur skeleton—all of it fossilized just off this wilderness highway.

Paleontologists have left the remains there, says one of the Navajo locals who guides tourists around, though all the finds have been documented. This desert museum is one of many sites that attest to the destruction of a majestic breed of animals. These imposing creatures have captured the imagination of many a young boy, and the story as to their extinction has perplexed paleontologists, scientists and evolutionists, who can only theorize as to how the “age of reptiles” came to an end.

Mainstream Christians, on the other hand, are leery of all this dinosaur talk, fearing that—if scientists are right about these creatures’ existence—the Bible’s credibility could be forever extinguished. They assume the Earth is 6,000 years old, and that the Bible attests to that fact. This either causes them to ignore fossil evidence or to concoct outlandish theories that dinosaurs lived between Adam and the great Flood of Noah’s day.

On this point, traditional Christianity needs to be corrected. If scientists knew this, perhaps they would be less likely to dismiss the Bible as some mythical text that weaves a tale of a world much younger than they believe to exist. Science would, in fact, see the answer to the age-old mystery as to what happened to the dinosaurs! After all, science should be based on all knowledge—of which the Bible is the foundation!

Religion’s Errors

The answer is in the first two verses of the Holy Bible, yet no one seems to acknowledge it!

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). No biblical evidence suggests that this verse documents an event from 6,000 years ago—to the contrary!

Verse 2 states: “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Other verses confirm that God did not create the Earth in this disarray. The phrase “earth was without form” actually means, in the Hebrew, the Earth became without form and void (see Genesis 19:26 where the same Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt).

How much time passed between the creation of Genesis 1:1 and the ensuing destruction of the Earth’s ecosystem as noted in verse 2? Though the Bible does not tell us—it could have been millions or billions of years—it does tell us how the Earth came to be in such a state.

Genesis 1:2-10 indicate that the Earth was covered with water and that no sunlight was able to pierce through the impenetrable, lethal atmosphere. What God embarked on, according to this account, was a re-creation. This is what the Bible states occurred 6,000 years ago. Earth was re-inhabited with life. Psalm 104:30 shows that God renewed the face of the Earth.

Understanding this timeline allows for dinosaurs to have existed much more than six millennia ago. It is only when so-called Bible believers lock themselves into a 6,000-year-old world that they have trouble with dinosaurs. This gives birth to the erroneous notion that dinosaurs had to exist until the time of the great Flood—another Earth-wide destruction. A simple study into the account of Noah will show that he brought some of every kind of animal onto the ark (see Genesis 6:19-20). If dinosaurs had existed, they would have been on the ark—and still would have existed in large enough numbers to be documented throughout man’s history.

Older Than 6,000 Years!

The Bible talks about the Earth before the re-creation of Genesis 1:2. An account like Isaiah 14:12-15 sheds light on this: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell [Hebrew: sheol, meaning grave, pit or exile], to the sides of the pit.”

The Bible tells of an impressive angelic creature that rebelled against God before the creation of Adam. His attempt to launch a coup against God’s heavenly throne resulted in his being thrown back down to the already-existent planet Earth. Jesus Christ confirmed this during His earthly ministry: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven,” He said (Luke 10:18). Thus, unprecedented Earth-wide destruction ensued!

The story of the Bible is not about a young Earth, but an ancient one that was literally impacted by the rebellion of a great archangel so many years ago. Any details about the Earth after the re-creation are vastly different than those of the pre-Adamic world. Instead of an age where colossal reptiles roamed a planet hostile to human existence, this new age shows foliage and fruits, gardens and grains, and a dominant supply of warm-blooded mammals. This re-creation was a different Earth in that sense—a new cast of animals, where mammals take center stage while cold-blooded reptiles are more of a sideshow. Of course, the reptiles are vital to the ecosystem, but their role of dominance and grandeur is gone.

This world, after the ruins of Lucifer’s rebellion were repaired, is one completely suited for warm-blooded humankind, created in the image and likeness of God, to have dominion (Genesis 1:26). Man could not have dominated a world in the age of the Tyrannosaurus Rex or the Brachiosaurus. Nor could he have survived. The fruits and vegetables, the meat, and even the pleasant beauty and sounds of birds and flowers, were all created for the age of man.

Global Catastrophes

Whether they believe the Bible or not, scientists must admit that the Bible does plainly allow for the existence of a pre-Adamic Earth and ecosystem, and for the catastrophic destruction of that world. What they will not accept is that the evidence they have uncovered proves the Bible’s explanation to be the answer to this age-old mystery!

The fossil record proves the biblical explanation.

Scientists look at the remains of the pre-Adamic world (our term, not theirs) and see fossils buried in what they say is an evolutionary order. That is what they assume—finding, we might add, no transitional fossils between these layers. This is something that still stumps the greatest scientists! The world, in truth, was actually teeming with all sorts of life of varying sizes. When destruction rained down on the Earth, rocks were laid down suddenly. Those creatures close to the impact of a meteor would have been cremated and/or buried and baked near the surface, as can be seen near that spot in the Painted Desert.

This great extinction wiped out old and young, eggs and elderly, small and large. No other explanation can account for such a dying off of these prehistoric life forms—particularly the dinosaurs, which, for example, disappeared in all regions of the world. It caused the extinction of air, land and marine reptiles.

For those who believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, this explanation gels with this divinely inspired text. (For more on this, request a free copy of our booklets Does God Exist? and The Proof of the Bible.)

These reptiles did not evolve into mammals. They were obliterated. The so-called Cenozoic era—the age of man’s existence on Earth, where all vegetation and life enable human survival—began after God re-created the Earth. Cenozoic rock, because it represents the age of man, consists of an entirely different set of sedimentary layers and fossils than was laid down in the pre-Adamic destruction mentioned in Genesis 1:2. In these more recent layers, not surprisingly, fossils of the warm-blooded mammals associated with man’s world predominate.

What geologists have found in Cenozoic rock is another mass burial of life. This can be traced back to Noah’s Flood, occurring about 1,650 years after the re-creation of the Earth. This worldwide catastrophe was not as severe as the pre-Adamic one, as sea life was not extinguished.

Bible and Science Can Coexist

Rather than proving evolution, the layers of fossilized rock attest to supernatural forces at work in nature: first, an earth without oceans or water in Pr.8:24, huge meteor and comet strikes, massive volcanic action and the ensuing catastrophic Earth-wide flood God started the six day creation with, according to Ps.24:2 and 2 Pet.3:5; the second Flood of Noah’s time and the separation and dividing of the continents of the earth in Gen.10:25..

Thus, there is no conflict between fossil record and biblical truth. Despite scientists’ attempts to ignore God and discard the Bible, the facts of science and God’s Word will always agree with and mutually amplify each other!

By Ryan Malone


Quasar92
 

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Mainstream Christians, on the other hand, are leery of all this dinosaur talk, fearing that—if scientists are right about these creatures’ existence—the Bible’s credibility could be forever extinguished. They assume the Earth is 6,000 years old,

I think "mainstream" isn't accurate here, because a slim majority of Christian believers in the U.S., at least, believe evolution (or something like it, such as managed evolution) is how life unfolded on Earth, and most of them believe this was by God's design, and most believe by His management. So, the majority of U.S. believers understand the Earth to be very old, and life also.
 
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What the OP is suggesting is sometimes known as the "gap" theory. It was popularized near the beginning of the 20th century by the notes in the Schofield Reference Bible. I cannot say for sure that this is the explanation that I believe 100%, but I do think that it answers some of the questions that otherwise I have no answer for.
 
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**Soft Tissue** is now being found in dinosaur bones in either bones dug up recently or bones already in display or in storage in museums. NOTE, many of these bones with soft tissue were dug up in the desert, not frozen!

Ironically, it's simply a case of experts not bothering to look for soft tissue under the assumption they don't exist!

It might be a hint that dinosaurs may have died out much more recently than we think.
 
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**Soft Tissue** is now being found in dinosaur bones in either bones dug up recently or bones already in display or in storage in museums. NOTE, many of these bones with soft tissue were dug up in the desert, not frozen!

Ironically, it's simply a case of experts not bothering to look for soft tissue under the assumption they don't exist!

It might be a hint that dinosaurs may have died out much more recently than we think.

Think formaldehyde -- specimens in jars of formaldehyde, preserved. See? It's possible for a good preservative.

What is mummy "skin"? Dehydrated. That preserves (note you mentioned desert conditions above!) Other examples: frozen specimens, amber, etc.

God created all that is, but we don't know all about it. Not yet.

So, here's the hypothesis:

"The obvious question, though, was how soft, pliable tissue could survive for millions of years. In a new study published today (Nov. 26) in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, Schweitzer thinks she has the answer: Iron.

Iron lady

Iron is an element present in abundance in the body, particularly in the blood, where it is part of the protein that carries oxygen from the lungs to the tissues. Iron is also highly reactive with other molecules, so the body keeps it locked up tight, bound to molecules that prevent it from wreaking havoc on the tissues.

After death, though, iron is let free from its cage. It forms minuscule iron nanoparticles and also generates free radicals, which are highly reactive molecules thought to be involved in aging.

"The free radicals cause proteins and cell membranes to tie in knots," Schweitzer said. "They basically act like formaldehyde."

Formaldehyde, of course, preserves tissue. It works by linking up, or cross-linking, the amino acids that make up proteins, which makes those proteins more resistant to decay."

-- Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained
 
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Quasar92

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I think "mainstream" isn't accurate here, because a slim majority of Christian believers in the U.S., at least, believe evolution (or something like it, such as managed evolution) is how life unfolded on Earth, and most of them believe this was by God's design, and most believe by His management. So, the majority of U.S. believers understand the Earth to be very old, and life also.


I am in complete agreement with you.


Quasar92
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It might be a hint that dinosaurs may have died out much more recently than we think.
Not any more recently than the Bible clearly indicates - at the flood, or after the flood.

Everything found , all over the world, indicates clearly the Bible is true, without any twisting or contortions , without doing violece to any Scripture.

Mankind hates Scripture, the devil hates mankind, and they both twist everything.
 
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From the February 2009 Trumpet Print Edition » Does Scripture account for the age of dinosaurs?

Dinosaur Tracks, the almost homemade-looking sign says on the side of Highway 160 just west of Tuba City, Arizona, on the way to the Grand Canyon. The expanse of fossils and footprints, scattered throughout this portion of the Painted Desert on a Navajo Indian reservation, attests to a dramatic moment in Earth’s history.

The site lies some miles north of an ancient meteoric crater, and the story seems relatively clear from the evidence left behind. Some footprints indicate running—confusion as traffic collided in the final moments of a chaotic world. Yet, the majority of the footprints seem to face the direction of the crater—as if these large reptiles were transfixed by a fiery display in the sky. The world around them was collapsing. Precipitation had muddied the terrain. When the meteor hit, scorching heat burst in all directions, baking this dinosaur community right into earth—the footprints, the eggs, the dung and even an almost-entire dinosaur skeleton—all of it fossilized just off this wilderness highway.

Paleontologists have left the remains there, says one of the Navajo locals who guides tourists around, though all the finds have been documented. This desert museum is one of many sites that attest to the destruction of a majestic breed of animals. These imposing creatures have captured the imagination of many a young boy, and the story as to their extinction has perplexed paleontologists, scientists and evolutionists, who can only theorize as to how the “age of reptiles” came to an end.

Mainstream Christians, on the other hand, are leery of all this dinosaur talk, fearing that—if scientists are right about these creatures’ existence—the Bible’s credibility could be forever extinguished. They assume the Earth is 6,000 years old, and that the Bible attests to that fact. This either causes them to ignore fossil evidence or to concoct outlandish theories that dinosaurs lived between Adam and the great Flood of Noah’s day.

On this point, traditional Christianity needs to be corrected. If scientists knew this, perhaps they would be less likely to dismiss the Bible as some mythical text that weaves a tale of a world much younger than they believe to exist. Science would, in fact, see the answer to the age-old mystery as to what happened to the dinosaurs! After all, science should be based on all knowledge—of which the Bible is the foundation!

Religion’s Errors

The answer is in the first two verses of the Holy Bible, yet no one seems to acknowledge it!

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). No biblical evidence suggests that this verse documents an event from 6,000 years ago—to the contrary!

Verse 2 states: “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Other verses confirm that God did not create the Earth in this disarray. The phrase “earth was without form” actually means, in the Hebrew, the Earth became without form and void (see Genesis 19:26 where the same Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt).

How much time passed between the creation of Genesis 1:1 and the ensuing destruction of the Earth’s ecosystem as noted in verse 2? Though the Bible does not tell us—it could have been millions or billions of years—it does tell us how the Earth came to be in such a state.

Genesis 1:2-10 indicate that the Earth was covered with water and that no sunlight was able to pierce through the impenetrable, lethal atmosphere. What God embarked on, according to this account, was a re-creation. This is what the Bible states occurred 6,000 years ago. Earth was re-inhabited with life. Psalm 104:30 shows that God renewed the face of the Earth.

Understanding this timeline allows for dinosaurs to have existed much more than six millennia ago. It is only when so-called Bible believers lock themselves into a 6,000-year-old world that they have trouble with dinosaurs. This gives birth to the erroneous notion that dinosaurs had to exist until the time of the great Flood—another Earth-wide destruction. A simple study into the account of Noah will show that he brought some of every kind of animal onto the ark (see Genesis 6:19-20). If dinosaurs had existed, they would have been on the ark—and still would have existed in large enough numbers to be documented throughout man’s history.

Older Than 6,000 Years!

The Bible talks about the Earth before the re-creation of Genesis 1:2. An account like Isaiah 14:12-15 sheds light on this: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell [Hebrew: sheol, meaning grave, pit or exile], to the sides of the pit.”

The Bible tells of an impressive angelic creature that rebelled against God before the creation of Adam. His attempt to launch a coup against God’s heavenly throne resulted in his being thrown back down to the already-existent planet Earth. Jesus Christ confirmed this during His earthly ministry: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven,” He said (Luke 10:18). Thus, unprecedented Earth-wide destruction ensued!

The story of the Bible is not about a young Earth, but an ancient one that was literally impacted by the rebellion of a great archangel so many years ago. Any details about the Earth after the re-creation are vastly different than those of the pre-Adamic world. Instead of an age where colossal reptiles roamed a planet hostile to human existence, this new age shows foliage and fruits, gardens and grains, and a dominant supply of warm-blooded mammals. This re-creation was a different Earth in that sense—a new cast of animals, where mammals take center stage while cold-blooded reptiles are more of a sideshow. Of course, the reptiles are vital to the ecosystem, but their role of dominance and grandeur is gone.

This world, after the ruins of Lucifer’s rebellion were repaired, is one completely suited for warm-blooded humankind, created in the image and likeness of God, to have dominion (Genesis 1:26). Man could not have dominated a world in the age of the Tyrannosaurus Rex or the Brachiosaurus. Nor could he have survived. The fruits and vegetables, the meat, and even the pleasant beauty and sounds of birds and flowers, were all created for the age of man.

Global Catastrophes

Whether they believe the Bible or not, scientists must admit that the Bible does plainly allow for the existence of a pre-Adamic Earth and ecosystem, and for the catastrophic destruction of that world. What they will not accept is that the evidence they have uncovered proves the Bible’s explanation to be the answer to this age-old mystery!

The fossil record proves the biblical explanation.

Scientists look at the remains of the pre-Adamic world (our term, not theirs) and see fossils buried in what they say is an evolutionary order. That is what they assume—finding, we might add, no transitional fossils between these layers. This is something that still stumps the greatest scientists! The world, in truth, was actually teeming with all sorts of life of varying sizes. When destruction rained down on the Earth, rocks were laid down suddenly. Those creatures close to the impact of a meteor would have been cremated and/or buried and baked near the surface, as can be seen near that spot in the Painted Desert.

This great extinction wiped out old and young, eggs and elderly, small and large. No other explanation can account for such a dying off of these prehistoric life forms—particularly the dinosaurs, which, for example, disappeared in all regions of the world. It caused the extinction of air, land and marine reptiles.

For those who believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, this explanation gels with this divinely inspired text. (For more on this, request a free copy of our booklets Does God Exist? and The Proof of the Bible.)

These reptiles did not evolve into mammals. They were obliterated. The so-called Cenozoic era—the age of man’s existence on Earth, where all vegetation and life enable human survival—began after God re-created the Earth. Cenozoic rock, because it represents the age of man, consists of an entirely different set of sedimentary layers and fossils than was laid down in the pre-Adamic destruction mentioned in Genesis 1:2. In these more recent layers, not surprisingly, fossils of the warm-blooded mammals associated with man’s world predominate.

What geologists have found in Cenozoic rock is another mass burial of life. This can be traced back to Noah’s Flood, occurring about 1,650 years after the re-creation of the Earth. This worldwide catastrophe was not as severe as the pre-Adamic one, as sea life was not extinguished.

Bible and Science Can Coexist

Rather than proving evolution, the layers of fossilized rock attest to supernatural forces at work in nature: first, an earth without oceans or water in Pr.8:24, huge meteor and comet strikes, massive volcanic action and the ensuing catastrophic Earth-wide flood God started the six day creation with, according to Ps.24:2 and 2 Pet.3:5; the second Flood of Noah’s time and the separation and dividing of the continents of the earth in Gen.10:25..

Thus, there is no conflict between fossil record and biblical truth. Despite scientists’ attempts to ignore God and discard the Bible, the facts of science and God’s Word will always agree with and mutually amplify each other!

By Ryan Malone


Quasar92

The forefathers of the Hebrews were for the Hebrews and no one else cared about those accounts but for the Hebrew they would have been highly valued; this is why there is lots of details in Genesis about their accounts. However before Abraham the details were more fluid and there was lots of competition in surrounding cultures for different accounts of creation, the flood and interactions with the supernatural. Everyone would have something to say about these things. Abraham is about 1000 years from Moses using a Biblical timeline but creation is about 2500 years from Moses. These details would be lost in a soup of cultures and religions and the strongest of these would be the most prevailing; the strongest of these would have been in their backyard, namely Egyptian.

If you read the Egyptian creation myth it actually has similarity with the Biblical creation account and should we be surprised by this? The Israelites left alone with their high priest made a golden calf and started to worship it. It is clear from a biblical perspective they needing some theological fixing. They were an oral culture with no priests, no systems, no scripture, no temple, and very little known about God.

So what do you think would happen if Moses came down from the mountain and told them about dinosaurs and the big bang theory? I would say they would pick up stones and kill Moses and ride along merely with their golden calf. You can take the Hebrew out of Egypt but it's hard to take the Egypt out of the Hebrew. They liked their corrupted pagan ways and didn't want it to change so Moses gave them an account that fit their way of thinking; he contextualised creation to remove the paganism out of it and point to the one true God while at the same time agreeing with their world view. Dinosaurs weren't a part of their worldview; not only did they not matter including them would have been too confusing and creation caos.

Moses united the Israelites with a orthodox homogeneous account to what I'm sure was a thousand different stories and some extremely heretical. In short Moses fixed their theology but he was not a science teacher. Westerners love their facts and things that are measurable but ancients cared less about the details and valued the meanings of the account over the fine details; stories were free to morph to uphold the strong meanings within them. The meanings of the creation account have nothing to do with evolution or dinosaurs. Trying to force it into the text is going to fail and is as foolish as saying they all died in the flood. The creation account is about God and fixing the heresies of the Hebrews not about science.
 
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Tolworth John

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It is interesting to read what the early promotors of evolution and long ages wrote about the bible.
T/.Huxley, darwins bulldog had this to say about scripture:-
'I am fairly at a loss to comprehend how any one, for a moment, can doubt that Christian theology must stand or fall with the historical trustworthiness of the Jewish Scriptures. The very conception of the Messiah, or Christ, is inextricably interwoven with Jewish history; the identification of Jesus of Nazareth with that Messiah rests upon the interpretation of passages of the Hebrew Scriptures which have no evidential value unless they possess the historical character assigned to them. If the covenant with Abraham was not made; if circumcision and sacrifices were not ordained by Jahveh; if the "ten words" were not written by God’s hand on the stone tables; if Abraham is more or less a mythical hero, such as Theseus; the story of the Deluge a fiction; that of the Fall a legend; and that of the creation the dream of a seer; if all these definite and detailed narratives of apparently real events have no more value as history than have the stories of the regal period of Rome—what is to be said about the Messianic doctrine, which is so much less clearly enunciated? And what about the authority of the writers of the books of the New Testament, who, on this theory, have not merely accepted flimsy fictions for solid truths, but have built the very foundations of Christian dogma upon legendary quicksands?’
from Huxley, T., Science and Hebrew Tradition, Vol. 4 of Huxley’s Collected Essays, ‘The Lights of the Church and the Light of Science’, (1890), pp. 207–208, aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE4/Lights.html, 18 March 2008
and
Concerning
Matthew 19:5 [‘Have ye not read, that he which made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and the twain shall become one flesh?’], Huxley wrote,
‘If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one may play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as a "type" or "allegory," what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?’

He is clearly saying that Christians cannot mix their Christianity with evolution.
take Charle Lyell, the promotor of slow and gradual change:-
The late Harvard Professor of Geology, Stephen Jay Gould, wrote: “Lyell’s great treatise is not, as so often stated, a textbook summarizing all prevailing knowledge in a systematic way, but a passionate brief for a single, well-formed argument [for uniformitarianism—Ed.], hammered home relentlessly. … Truth is supposed to prevail by force of logical argument and wealth of documentation, not by strength of rhetoric.
from Gould, S.J.,Time’s Arrow, Time’s Cycle, Harvard University Press, 1987

In short science has a closed mind to the possibility that the bible could be correct.

So who does one believe, men or God?
 
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Not any more recently than the Bible clearly indicates - at the flood, or after the flood.

Everything found , all over the world, indicates clearly the Bible is true, without any twisting or contortions , without doing violece to any Scripture.

Mankind hates Scripture, the devil hates mankind, and they both twist everything.


There are many issues not addressed in the Bible, because they have little to no bearing on God's plan for mankind in our present age.


Quasar92
 
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There are many issues not addressed in the Bible, because they have little to no bearing on God's plan for mankind in our present age.


Quasar92

That's exactly correct.
 
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It is interesting to read what the early promotors of evolution and long ages wrote about the bible.
T/.Huxley, darwins bulldog had this to say about scripture:-
'I am fairly at a loss to comprehend how any one, for a moment, can doubt that Christian theology must stand or fall with the historical trustworthiness of the Jewish Scriptures. The very conception of the Messiah, or Christ, is inextricably interwoven with Jewish history; the identification of Jesus of Nazareth with that Messiah rests upon the interpretation of passages of the Hebrew Scriptures which have no evidential value unless they possess the historical character assigned to them. If the covenant with Abraham was not made; if circumcision and sacrifices were not ordained by Jahveh; if the "ten words" were not written by God’s hand on the stone tables; if Abraham is more or less a mythical hero, such as Theseus; the story of the Deluge a fiction; that of the Fall a legend; and that of the creation the dream of a seer; if all these definite and detailed narratives of apparently real events have no more value as history than have the stories of the regal period of Rome—what is to be said about the Messianic doctrine, which is so much less clearly enunciated? And what about the authority of the writers of the books of the New Testament, who, on this theory, have not merely accepted flimsy fictions for solid truths, but have built the very foundations of Christian dogma upon legendary quicksands?’
from Huxley, T., Science and Hebrew Tradition, Vol. 4 of Huxley’s Collected Essays, ‘The Lights of the Church and the Light of Science’, (1890), pp. 207–208, aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE4/Lights.html, 18 March 2008
and
Concerning
Matthew 19:5 [‘Have ye not read, that he which made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and the twain shall become one flesh?’], Huxley wrote,
‘If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one may play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as a "type" or "allegory," what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?’

He is clearly saying that Christians cannot mix their Christianity with evolution.
take Charle Lyell, the promotor of slow and gradual change:-
The late Harvard Professor of Geology, Stephen Jay Gould, wrote: “Lyell’s great treatise is not, as so often stated, a textbook summarizing all prevailing knowledge in a systematic way, but a passionate brief for a single, well-formed argument [for uniformitarianism—Ed.], hammered home relentlessly. … Truth is supposed to prevail by force of logical argument and wealth of documentation, not by strength of rhetoric.
from Gould, S.J.,Time’s Arrow, Time’s Cycle, Harvard University Press, 1987

In short science has a closed mind to the possibility that the bible could be correct.

So who does one believe, men or God?


The Bible is to help us reconcile to God, and to help save us from ourselves, and save our souls.

It's not about comparatively trivial stuff like geology or radioactive half lives, which are things we see in nature, but not essential to salvation, and will not save our souls.

The reason God doesn't say to us --
'In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth, and He chose to do it over 8.43 years.'
OR
'In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth, and He chose to do it over 9.2 billion years.'
--NOT things God said.

Is because it does not matter exactly how long it took!

He didn't say how long, because that does not matter.


But in contrast it *could* matter profoundly for a young believer of weak faith if someone claims to them it something that destroys their faith like claiming it MUST be 6 consecutive 24 hour days with no time gaps in between -- which is NOT the wording, and which the Bible does not say or suggest anywhere.
Not anywhere.

You or anyone could make those presumptions and believe in those presumptions about what is NOT in the text, if you want, but none of us should try to preach our presumptions as if our presumptions are equal to gospel.

The gospels which actually can save, just as you know, you already know, are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and not at a particular way of reading Genesis chapter 1. Not your way, nor mine. :) And this we *both* should always remember. My guesses about Genesis chapter 1 are not gospel either. Neither of our guesses.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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There are many issues not addressed in the Bible, because they have little to no bearing on God's plan for mankind in our present age.


Quasar92
One issue YHWH states without question: all mankind is evil beyond imagination. all society is pernicious (death dealing, promoting death, pursuing death for all, apart from Christ, apart from YHWH, apart from truth, i.e. just plain wrong)
 
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Shempster

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I have friends that insist that the pre-flood humans lived side by side with dino's.
How close have you ever been to a reconstructed dino skeleton? There would be no way to build houses that would survive should one stroll into your village. Some were so big they would step on a house like we step on an anthill.
And what would stop a T-Rex from eating a village a day?
Plus we would find human skeletons where dinos are found and we really don't. And yes, I have seen the pics of a human print next to a dino print.

I have to agree that the Gap theory makes the most sense. The past was covered up by sediment and excluded from Genesis. Maybe it was covered up for a reason....maybe like we were not supposed to know?
 
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DamianWarS

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It is interesting to read what the early promotors of evolution and long ages wrote about the bible.
T/.Huxley, darwins bulldog had this to say about scripture:-
'I am fairly at a loss to comprehend how any one, for a moment, can doubt that Christian theology must stand or fall with the historical trustworthiness of the Jewish Scriptures. The very conception of the Messiah, or Christ, is inextricably interwoven with Jewish history; the identification of Jesus of Nazareth with that Messiah rests upon the interpretation of passages of the Hebrew Scriptures which have no evidential value unless they possess the historical character assigned to them. If the covenant with Abraham was not made; if circumcision and sacrifices were not ordained by Jahveh; if the "ten words" were not written by God’s hand on the stone tables; if Abraham is more or less a mythical hero, such as Theseus; the story of the Deluge a fiction; that of the Fall a legend; and that of the creation the dream of a seer; if all these definite and detailed narratives of apparently real events have no more value as history than have the stories of the regal period of Rome—what is to be said about the Messianic doctrine, which is so much less clearly enunciated? And what about the authority of the writers of the books of the New Testament, who, on this theory, have not merely accepted flimsy fictions for solid truths, but have built the very foundations of Christian dogma upon legendary quicksands?’
from Huxley, T., Science and Hebrew Tradition, Vol. 4 of Huxley’s Collected Essays, ‘The Lights of the Church and the Light of Science’, (1890), pp. 207–208, aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE4/Lights.html, 18 March 2008
and
Concerning
Matthew 19:5 [‘Have ye not read, that he which made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and the twain shall become one flesh?’], Huxley wrote,
‘If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one may play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as a "type" or "allegory," what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?’

He is clearly saying that Christians cannot mix their Christianity with evolution.
take Charle Lyell, the promotor of slow and gradual change:-
The late Harvard Professor of Geology, Stephen Jay Gould, wrote: “Lyell’s great treatise is not, as so often stated, a textbook summarizing all prevailing knowledge in a systematic way, but a passionate brief for a single, well-formed argument [for uniformitarianism—Ed.], hammered home relentlessly. … Truth is supposed to prevail by force of logical argument and wealth of documentation, not by strength of rhetoric.
from Gould, S.J.,Time’s Arrow, Time’s Cycle, Harvard University Press, 1987

In short science has a closed mind to the possibility that the bible could be correct.

So who does one believe, men or God?

"He is clearly saying that Christians cannot mix their Christianity with evolution."

He is clearly saying that however the creation accounts are interpreted the Abrahamic accounts must be interpreted the same way. But the creation accounts and the Abrahamic accounts of Genesis are completely different and it would be irresponsible to equalize and force the same interpretation of these.
 
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Tolworth John

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"He is clearly saying that Christians cannot mix their Christianity with evolution."

He is clearly saying that however the creation accounts are interpreted the Abrahamic accounts must be interpreted the same way. But the creation accounts and the Abrahamic accounts of Genesis are completely different and it would be irresponsible to equalize and force the same interpretation of these.

He is saying they must be interpreted consitently, which is part of how the bible should be undertsood.

If genesis is understood consitently with the rest of the bible it can only be understood as a literal 6 day creation.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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...If genesis is understood consitently with the rest of the bible it can only be understood as a literal 6 day creation.
This is truth, but the world(society) cannot comprehend it(any truth, heaven, spirit, etc). Throughout the Bible, it is shown that the world cannot see the kingdom of heaven - only those with a pure heart may. (by sheer grace at that, not by earning it)
 
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DamianWarS

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He is saying they must be interpreted consitently, which is part of how the bible should be undertsood.

If genesis is understood consitently with the rest of the bible it can only be understood as a literal 6 day creation.

We should always interpret scripture consistently based on its context. Revelation is different than a parable of Jesus and is different than a Proverb or a Psalm and is different than a levitical law or Isaiah prophecy and is different than the poetry of Job or a letter of Paul and is different than the early accounts of Genesis than the later detailed accounts of Genesis which is different than the genealogies; too numerous to rhyme off but each require a unique way of understanding the text. Responsibly understanding the text base on its context does not turn the entire bible into metaphor or turn the entire bible as a literal text it simply helps reveal the meanings of the text for it's original context.

The context of the genesis creation account is a for a post-exodus, ancient hebrew, nomadic, oral culture about 3500 years ago with gross underdeveloped theological perspectives heavily influenced by Egyptian culture and systems. Moses did not pen these words for a detailed obsessed abstract and scientific minded western culture. God, through Moses, established an orthodox creation account and corrected the theology of the Israelites by de-paganising the many existing beliefs and contextualizing them to point to the one true God. The order and details presented are important but establishing a literal timeline from the text misses the point and ignores the context.
 
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