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Does Satan actually believe he can win against God?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does Satan actually think that his plans stand a chance of prevailing in the end? Does he believe he could ever prevail against God, or is it the sunk cost fallacy and his unimaginable abyss of pride?

    Has Satan already partially succeeded against God by corrupting the souls of man and turning a percentage of them away from God? Would he consider himself successful in that regard? Would you?

    I think I would in a sense...
     
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  2. PrettyboyAndy

    PrettyboyAndy • Andy • Supporter

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    But at the same time, God's elect, or His sheep, will follow him, and no one can snatch them out of his hand.

    So I don't think he succeeded one bit in regards to salvation, but for sure satan is a tempter, and messing or trying to mess with our spiritual life
     
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  3. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    It certainly would be this, from what I have learned. If you think about it pride is the root, and one can even believe their own lies.

    I wouldn't say that Satan has succedded in anything, really. I mean, Jesus came into the world and put sin to death on the cross and resurrected into new life in the Spirit. Satan wants everyone he can get to fail and fall with him, but really, it's still our own choice to believe in Jesus and rising again to life to the full. Satan would like to think he is succeeding, but the reality is he really has no control.
     
  4. Steviooo

    Steviooo New Member

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    I'm sure he's aware he can never defeat God in any way, and so he's trying to do as much damage as possible before he goes down. This, combined with his pride, is what keeps him going until his destruction. Revelation 12:12 But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time. He makes use of whatever time he has to destroy as much as he can because he knows his future will not change.

    I'd consider his deception of Adam and Eve a success, but only because God allowed him to go ahead with it... God is in control of everything, and without his permission, Satan's actions are limited.

    Consider Job's story for example. Satan probably assumed he was successful in destroying Job's faith and future, but God had better plans for him and it only worked out in his favour. Likewise in everything else; God uses Satan to accomplish his purpose and so his success is meaningless in the long run. Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    Even though demons/Satan can influence us in certain ways to avoid seeking the truth of the Bible, we still have the full capacity and opportunity to seek God ourselves. "Psalms 53:1 - The fool says in his heart, “There is no God." It falls back on us to the make the decision of whether we seek God or not.
     
  5. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's a good point, Andy.

    Right, but in reference to what Jesus said above (in Andy's post) in the end, all of the destruction perpetuated by Satan will be null and void since none of what the Father brings to the Son will be lost in the end.

    If the damage is to our lives here in this fallen world, that will be irrelevant once God returns and makes all things new again. So I guess... Satan is completely impotent in the end??

    I would too. I also see it as an eventuality.

    Hallelujah!!
     
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    No, because (as Steviooo pointed out in post #4) Satan "knoweth that he hath but a short time" (Revelation 12:12b).

    Revelation 12:12 refers to the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at which midpoint there will be less than 4 years before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:11-21) and Satan's defeat at the hands of an angel (Revelation 20:1-3).

    But before Jesus' Second Coming, Satan will succeed in bringing the unsaved world into the conscious and open worship of himself (the dragon) and of his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9).

    But how could Satan ever convince the world to worship him as a dragon, and how could he use and distort elements of his history in his future deception of the world?

    Regarding his history, Satan, who is a literal, 7-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his 7-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

    After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, perhaps even as one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit 2 pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

    From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

    Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a war in heaven at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I've come to help you through this terrible tribulation you're experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

    He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We didn't start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

    "YHWH said he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said we could enter this universe and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities you create with computers.

    "But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so while we were in his universe each of us would think all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

    "When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw wasn't enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he hadn't yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

    "But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever"
    .

    The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist) for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @Bible2+ Thank you for your post. I enjoy reading expositions which incorporate Old Earth theory. More food for thought: due to climate change, Antarctica's covered landmass is revealing what has been hidden beneath all its tundra. There are rumors of Pyramidal structures being located there. If we take into account Continental Drift theory, and we do since it is intrinsic to Old Earth theory, we are potentially looking at a civilization(s) that existed 100,000's of years ago... Or at the very least, 10,000's of years ago, predating ancient Sumeria.


    I've read about the theory of a Reptilian species evolving in a likewise manner to humans long, long ago; Anunnaki theory. To be honest, it makes more sense to me that such a race would have evolved here and not come from, say, across the galaxy. I find this tale less far-fetched than notions of faster than light travel, teleportation, time-travel and wormhole/portal generation, if I'm being honest. I've ceased believing such endeavors are feasible to anyone other than God, just by the sheer magnitude of energy input that would be required.

    There was an event awhile back where 2 neutron stars collided which produced a gravitational ripple that was picked up by LIGO. I'm no expert in physics, but if warping space-time for FTL travel/wormhole opening requires a civilization to harness the energy of such a massive cosmic event, I doubt it could ever be done. Academia seems to have ceased publishing on the minuteness of said ripple.

    Gravitational waves just showed us something even cooler than black holes

    Haha yeah. "Now serve my newest creation, the human! Inferior to you in every way!" Oh, the indignity of it all!! It is too much to bear!


    The anti-religious, secular crowd would LOOOVE a superior, scientific alien race to come down and start running a utopia. No doubt. And hey, with all that debt you have there, why not just take that trendy new chip?! It'll make you an instant millionaire! Then you'll be able to do whatever you want all day long! No stress. Doesn't that sound great?! All for the nominal fee of your immortal soul...

    This is why I'm of pretribulation rapture view. I believe there will still be a chance for those who are not saved at rapture to be saved during the tribulation, and I've found much scriptural evidence to support this, only that it will be increasingly difficult due to the social, political, religious climate that will be thrust upon the world immediately. Once the rapture happens, the clock of Satan's reign will count down rapidly and he will no longer feel any need to rule this world in secret; his desire to be openly worshiped will be realized and enforced. Anyone who takes the mark of the beast in order to escape death and preserve their lives here in Satanland will be damned eternally.

    The Antichrist will probably end up deceiving the Jewish nation of Israel into believing he is their long-awaited Messiah, and then God's jealousy will reach critical mass... He will then come and set-up his millennial reign here and cast them into a lake of fire or something. Afterward, Satan is released a final time to prove his incorrigibility and millstone heart, and then it is all finished, forever, and we move on to the next day of God's creation...

    My eschatology is far from coherent in regard to my conception of the chronology of events (including the events themselves) so bear with me. It's quite a kaleidoscope...
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  8. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    I imagine it might be more of a Spite thing at this point. The further from God, the more Spiteful one would become.
     
  9. Divide

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    He knows he can't win. He knows he can't touch God. So he attacks His creation. In effort to destroy, hinder, and reduce God's harvest.
     
  10. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Well at the time he is cast down He will be very angry because he will know his time is short.. That says to me that He will eventually come to realize he is doomed and his satanic rebellion has failed.. but does he know it at this present time ??? Probably not..

    Revelation 12: KJV

    7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, {8} And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. {9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. {10} And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. {11} And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. {12} Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
     
  11. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    ... best thing I've read all year. You've won sir.
     
  12. -Luca

    -Luca Well-Known Member

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    He knows he cannot win against God but in a sense he will.

    He will succeed in sending billions of people to hell, imagine the pain this would put God through?

    In his own mind, he will win.
     
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  13. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    This is on the money.
    I (conjecture) that people are as individual as fingerprints, and each ones life and walk and plan from God, is as individualized as fingerprints.

    Consequently, each one that goes to hell... will leave an empty spot in the Lord's heart that will never be able to be filled by anyone else...

    Sorrowful for the Lord.
     
  14. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

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    Like Job`s new children could never replace the one`s lost ... :oldthumbsup:
     
  15. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. But! He did get his children doubled as in everything else. They're just waiting in heaven for him.

    Some had tried to say God didn't double his children as He did his assets. But He did.
     
  16. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    God allows satan to roam the earth because satan has a purpose, which actually can help individuals fulfill their earthly objective.
    Just as God dealt with satan in Job 1 to eventually help Job progress, God allows satan certain limited freedoms with us to help us down the road.
     
  17. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Well said Brother, and correct.

    Sometimes when I'm spiritually attacked, I recognize it and it only serves to increase my faith. Lol.

    I only wish it was all the time instead of sometimes. I do fail at times of course.
     
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    And that should not be surprising, considering how old mankind per se could be.

    Also, sometimes people ask if Ecclesiastes 1:10 means there really was an Atlantis.

    While the Bible nowhere teaches about "Atlantis", it does suggest there have been past civilizations on the earth, before our current civilization which began after the creation of Adam about 4000 BC.

    For Ecclesiastes 1:10 suggests all the things we think of as being new inventions (e.g. computers, jets, atomic weapons) were also invented during past civilizations on the earth. And Ecclesiastes 1:9 suggests we're not the last civilization which will be on the earth.

    And Ecclesiastes 1:11 suggests there's a complete break between earth civilizations, so there's no record left of previous civilizations. This could be accomplished by God completely melting the surface of the earth between civilizations, so as to completely obliterate all the works of the intelligent creatures who lived during each civilization (cf. 2 Peter 3:10-13). Because the planet earth itself must last forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4), each new civilization could unfold on what could be called a "new earth" (cf. Revelation 21:1) in the sense of a new surface of the earth, on which a newly created race of intelligent creatures can begin to build its works.

    That's a good point. Also, it relates to the idea that what we today call "aliens" could actually be from our own solar system.

    That is, if the specific aliens which some people claim to have had contact with (such as "the Greys") truly exist, they could be fallen angels or demons. Or they could be real aliens in the sense of mortal beings from some other star system. Or, if interstellar travel is physically impossible because of the practical limits which Special Relativity places on how fast matter can travel, they could be mortal beings from our own solar system who evolved (by God's created process of evolution) or were miraculously created by God long before humans, whether on this planet, or on the 2nd or the 4th planet from the sun, during some past eon when either or both of those planets was inhabitable.

    Also, note that the gravitational waves from the collision travelled only about 2 seconds faster than the electromagnetic radiation from the collision, which occurred over 100 million years ago. This suggests that "warp drive", that is a spaceship's gravitational warping of space-time (under General Relativity) to allow it to travel faster-than-light is not only science fiction, but a pipe dream. For how could any spaceship expect to generate more gravitational warping than 2 colliding neutron stars?

    That's right, because they would rather serve anything than having to serve YHWH God of the Bible, due to His morality regarding human sexuality (Romans 1:26-27). And they think an alien race will let them do whatever they want sexually. But they forget what any such aliens could do to them sexually.

    That's right. And that's very important for everyone to realize.

    Also, the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2) will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will also be visible because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (that is, the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what was shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

    The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

    Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17), and they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image, for those people who agree to do these things, even if they're Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded by the Antichrist, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient Church of all times) at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

    In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (compare also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28 and Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one who will cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus himself returned (via reincarnation). But he won't say he's Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ, and deny Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

    Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it's transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, 2 thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

    In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

    The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (that is, they have a "||" at the beginning, middle and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

    Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian, a worshipper of Lucifer/Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.

    Note "anti"-Christ can simply mean anyone who's "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

    And note nothing requires the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (that is, the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    But none of this means there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the Tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the Tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers they can keep for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

    It can help to realize that Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological insofar as the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the Tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

    Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the Tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus Christ's Second Coming will occur right after the 7th and last vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21) and He will rapture and marry the Church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then He will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.
     
  19. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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    Seems like he thinks he can pull it off:
    Consider too these:
     
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that Revelation 17:12-14 doesn't require that Satan himself will think that he can pull it off. For he himself will know that he has but a short time (Revelation 12:12).

    All that Revelation 17:12-14 requires is that Satan will convince the 10 kings of the future Antichrist's worldwide empire to make war with God at the time of Revelation 19:19-21.

    Also, before that, Satan will convince the 10 kings to burn up Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation 17:16-17).

    -

    Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the future Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

    Near the very end of the future Tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile, physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

    Of course this will be a lie. For at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat all the unsaved armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15), a time period commonly called the Millennium. During that time, Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a New Heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

    That bring to mind Matthew 24:37-41, which means non-Christians will have no idea most of them are going to be killed (by Jesus Himself: Revelation 19:15-21, Isaiah 63:3) at Jesus' future, Second Coming until it actually happens. For they could think the Second Coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the future Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (of Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned (via reincarnation). And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's Flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea YHWH God had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so non-Christians at the end of the future Tribulation could reject the idea YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

    For during the future Tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9); and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36); and to physically overcome and kill people in the Church (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers which Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

    And near the end of the future Tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the Two Witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the Tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the amazing miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the Tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected 1st battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

    The woman in Revelation 12 represents the Church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

    Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

    Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the Church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the Church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities and be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1 the Church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10) but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the Church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the Church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the Church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

    Revelation 13:7-10 shows that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10), will be allowed to physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Biblical Christians in the 1st century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). There are no Biblical Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

    But Revelation 13:7-10 doesn't mean that every person in the Church will be overcome by the future Antichrist. For some in the Church will be in God-protected wilderness places (Revelation 12:6,14-16). And so they will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's Second Coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).\
     
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