does religion allow abuse?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So what is the solution? Do we take a poll or something?

Take a poll ?? Really??
Every time God's people took a poll in Scripture, it seems they were wrong , and sometimes because of doing so God punished them. (including asking for a king)...

He said NOT to do things like the gentiles do, but to turn to HIM. Period. He is Faithful and True, and Just and Right and Merciful, and a Perfect Judge executing His Vengeance when needed, as He Says. (man's anger and courts do not work God's Justice).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This is likely one of those situations where people are going to have varying interpretations based on how their upbringing was.

IE:
"It doesn't mean that...studies find where kids do better without corporal punishment"
vs.
"My parents spanked me when I grew up, and I turned out alright"


I think anyone in their right mind who looked at the pictures realizes that, even if someone is okay with a form of corporal punishment, this is a clearly a case where even they'd agree it went too far.

 

[Basil the Great]

Let's be honest, everyone. What is considered an extreme beating now was probably looked upon as acceptable say back in the mid 1800's. Times change and sometimes values change as well. The same could be said for the institution of slavery and having an adult man marry a girl who is age 14 or 15.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So recently there's b een a case in the paper that somewhere in the world a woman beat her child with a clothes hanger. His back is covered with bruises. This isn't just a spanking for being bad which is more acceptable as a method. However in the court she uses in her defence "spare the rod, spoil the child". I can think of some good counter arguments such as "he who accepts the littlest child in my name, accepts me" and "what father gives their child a snake when they ask for a fish".
But what do you think. Is the Bible allowing the woman to do this?

No...I don't think the bible advocates child abuse. That's a failing of individuals. The "spare the rod" line was written long ago in different times.

For the record, I'm an anti-theist who generally views all religion as having a negative impact on humanity.

 

[Par5]

So recently there's b een a case in the paper that somewhere in the world a woman beat her child with a clothes hanger. His back is covered with bruises. This isn't just a spanking for being bad which is more acceptable as a method. However in the court she uses in her defence "spare the rod, spoil the child". I can think of some good counter arguments such as "he who accepts the littlest child in my name, accepts me" and "what father gives their child a snake when they ask for a fish".
But what do you think. Is the Bible allowing the woman to do this?

 

[Par5]

So recently there's b een a case in the paper that somewhere in the world a woman beat her child with a clothes hanger. His back is covered with bruises. This isn't just a spanking for being bad which is more acceptable as a method. However in the court she uses in her defence "spare the rod, spoil the child". I can think of some good counter arguments such as "he who accepts the littlest child in my name, accepts me" and "what father gives their child a snake when they ask for a fish".
But what do you think. Is the Bible allowing the woman to do this?

The biblical god didn't have any problem ordering the slaughter of children and infants if you believe what the bible says that is, but I would like to think that most people would interpret the NT spare the rod advice as meaning showing a child by example and instruction how to behave, rather than beating them. There are lots of more effective ways to discipline children other than hitting them. How can you teach your child that violence is wrong when you yourself inflict violence on your child? Calling it spanking doesn't make it right, it is still violence.
For those who see nothing wrong in spanking a child as a means of correction, try spanking an adult you see misbehaving and you will end up in court on an assault charge.

 

[Bethany35]

the rod, the shepherd's tool is used to guide not beat

 

[JCFantasy23]

Those pictures made me feel sick. That's terrible. It's demented to do that.

Ugh those pictures should leave no doubt this is abuse. Poor child.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Religion has always allowed for the abuse of children. It has less to do with specific lines about rods and more to do with children being the virtual property of parents with no penalty owed by parents for harming children. Get it? You pay a fine or get punished for harming a another man's wife or child; however, the owner suffers nothing for damaging his own property.

Children are things that parents are responsible for, but not to. Whatever you do to 'em to get them raised "right" - abuse doesn't seem to be proscribed.

 

[DaisyDay]

I agree. That could have been a pic of me circa age 5. My wife says I still have scars from it.

I'm sorry to hear that. {{{Dave-W}}}

How has that affected your views on child discipline?

 

[DaisyDay]

Let's be honest, everyone. What is considered an extreme beating now was probably looked upon as acceptable say back in the mid 1800's. Times change and sometimes values change as well. The same could be said for the institution of slavery and having an adult man marry a girl who is age 14 or 15.

And? This story is not from the mid-1800s.

 

[HannahT]

So recently there's b een a case in the paper that somewhere in the world a woman beat her child with a clothes hanger. His back is covered with bruises. This isn't just a spanking for being bad which is more acceptable as a method. However in the court she uses in her defence "spare the rod, spoil the child". I can think of some good counter arguments such as "he who accepts the littlest child in my name, accepts me" and "what father gives their child a snake when they ask for a fish".
But what do you think. Is the Bible allowing the woman to do this?

Anyone can take things out of context. It certainly doesn't have to be just the bible.

If people beat their sheep with the rods? They would have killed them, and then starved themselves because that is how they made their living. The rod is still used today in herding, and its still not used to beat them with. Although, they tend to train dogs to guide them more often now. The dog guides them - just as the rod would.

Now the Shepard may use the rod on an animal attacking the flock. Let's say a wolf or something.

The proverb basically says - whomever withholds guidance from their children hates them, and whomever gives their children guidance loves them. I mean that's what it says in basic terms.

Yes, you may always have wolves in sheep's clothing telling parents that it is okay to beat your child - or at times your spouse - but that isn't a bible teaching. It's the wolf's.

This woman needs to be convicted of child abuse, neglect, etc.

 

[Basil the Great]

And? This story is not from the mid-1800s.

Don't misunderstand. I take a back seat to nobody re:this issue. I worked in the social service field for 28 years and twice made a referral for possible child abuse to our appropriate state agency. I also talked to hundreds of women about spousal/boyfriend abuse.

 

[DaisyDay]

Don't misunderstand. I take a back seat to nobody re:this issue. I worked in the social service field for 28 years and twice made a referral for possible child abuse to our appropriate state agency. I also talked to hundreds of women about spousal/boyfriend abuse.

I still don't get your point in bringing up stuff from the 1800s.

 

[Basil the Great]

I think I did because of the long discussion as few weeks back about the AL Senate race and how it might have been deemed appropriate to marry a 14 year-old at one time, but certainly is no more, unless not in the U.S.

 

[Tom 1]

So recently there's b een a case in the paper that somewhere in the world a woman beat her child with a clothes hanger. His back is covered with bruises. This isn't just a spanking for being bad which is more acceptable as a method. However in the court she uses in her defence "spare the rod, spoil the child". I can think of some good counter arguments such as "he who accepts the littlest child in my name, accepts me" and "what father gives their child a snake when they ask for a fish".
But what do you think. Is the Bible allowing the woman to do this?

Having read the other comments I suppose this is where freedom leads -people are so different for so many different reasons, and everyone I’ve ever known (including myself) has layer upon layer of assumptions and beliefs built into their thinking that they have never even thought to question, and people tend to act out of their fundamental assumptions and beliefs. As someone else has already posted here there has to be room for common sense of deciding what assumptions etc are acceptable and which go too far and lead to this kind of violence.
Personally I’m not against corporal punishment as such, but the parent needs to know how to control it. I shared a flat with a couple of guys from Uganda while I was at college, and one of them, Robert, recounted a couple of times how much his mother used to beat him with a switch or a wooden spoon or whatever - not so she would inflict actual harm as in this case but still - and the other guy, Roddy, had a similar upbringing. They both had immense respect for their mothers and close family relationships.