Does persevering in the faith imply earning salvation?

[redleghunter]

Does persevering in the faith imply earning salvation?

Answer: no.

Romans 8: NASB

26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Simple answer: no.

 

[redleghunter]

If one totaly ignores everything in the NT that talks about salvation being a free gift then yes you can make scripture say what you like.

Jesus said if you 'love me' you will obey me.

By seeking to earn/deserve your salvation you demonstrate you do not love Jesus.

Yes, I don't know which school is teaching pitting Bible verses against each other and introducing theory based on the selection. AKA eisegesis. It's why we have these long threads as folks tend to do dueling verses.

 

[☦Marius☦]

You need both faith AND works to have salvation. That is simply because there is no such thing as faith without works. Our faith is kept alive by works and is founded on works. Belief itself is a work.

What does Romans say? Confess with your mouth the Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that he rose from the dead and you will be saved.

That is two works right there, confession and belief. However confessing Christ as Lord is an agreement to take on the Lord's commands. That is why he is called "the Lord", because he has laws that we follow if we truly think of him as the Lord.

Faith without works is dead, but works without faith are useless.

 

[Dave L]

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Free will = salvation by works from start to finish.

 

[Tolworth John]

Why are you using a text explaining the inclusion of Gentiles (operationalised freely, without merit or works from Gentiles) to teach that salvation is always free?

Give me a verse that says the Judgment of believers is not with obedience but without obedience.

This verse explains that all both jew and gentile are saved by Gods action, that we do not earn or deserve our salvation.

 

[dqhall]

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

While God gives advice as a free gift, who will follow Jesus?

Matthew 21:28-32 (WEB)
28 But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. 30 He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but he didn’t go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”

They said to him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into God’s Kingdom before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn’t believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn’t even repent afterward, that you might believe him."

 

[Halbhh]

While God gives advice as a free gift, who will follow Jesus?

Matthew 21:28-32 (WEB)
28 But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. 30 He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but he didn’t go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”

They said to him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into God’s Kingdom before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn’t believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn’t even repent afterward, that you might believe him."

^^^
Extremely helpful on this question!

 

[Neostarwcc]

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Perseverance is a fruit of the spirit so no it isn't earning salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law, so obedience to God's instructions is about having faith in Him to guide us in how to rightly live. Living by faith is always associated with having a willingness to obey God's instructions, such as with the examples of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11, whereas disobedience to God's instructions is referred to as breaking faith, such as in Numbers 5:6. In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that that he would show his faith by his works, so obedience to God's Law is not about adding our own efforts on top of our faith, but rather it is what our faith looks like, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that it is only the doers of the Law who will be justified. So we are not saved by our obedience to the Law, but rather we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires (Romans 1:5), so the same grace and faith by which we are saved also requires our obedience, which is why Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-10 that we have been saved by grace through faith, not by works, but rather we have been made creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works.

Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His Law and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it wouldn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:3-4 as Paul warning people against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and follow Christ. Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense to say that obeying God causes us to fall from grace as though it were somehow a negative thing to obey God or as though God doesn't want us to obey His commands, especially considering what else is said about grace in the Bible. For example, in Romans 1:5, have we received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace? In Psalm 119:29, did David want God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace? In Titus 2:11-14, does our salvation involve being trained by grace to fall from grace? No, the issue in Galatians was with works of the law, not with God's Law.

 

[ClementofA]

No, it doesn't imply earning salvation, which none of us could do. It implies necessary responsibilities in order to remain saved. He empowers us to remain saved as well, but the ongoing choice that He has given us remains in our hands.

So by doing (=works) your responsibilities you get saved in the end, if you maintain your salvation by your doing?

 

[ClementofA]

That is an oxymoron. It is impossible to persevere in the faith by "libertarian free will."

Why?

 

[ClementofA]

****

We are not saved by good works. Without Christ our works are as filthy rags.

Isaiah 65

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

We are saved for good works. The "works" begin after one is saved and we become new creatures in Christ and works are His good works, working through the believer.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God Bless.

Does salvation depend on your libertarian free will choices? If so, then how is that not a work you do or an earning of your salvation?

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

 

[ClementofA]

Perseverance is a fruit of the spirit so no it isn't earning salvation.

If there is libertarian free will that you must exercise in order to become saved & maintain salvation, how is that not earning salvation?

 

[klutedavid]

You need both faith AND works to have salvation. That is simply because there is no such thing as faith without works. Our faith is kept alive by works and is founded on works. Belief itself is a work.

What does Romans say? Confess with your mouth the Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that he rose from the dead and you will be saved.

That is two works right there, confession and belief. However confessing Christ as Lord is an agreement to take on the Lord's commands. That is why he is called "the Lord", because he has laws that we follow if we truly think of him as the Lord.

Faith without works is dead, but works without faith are useless.

But works perfect your faith!

 

[Neostarwcc]

If there is libertarian free will that you must exercise in order to become saved & maintain salvation, how is that not earning salvation?

Yes we have the free will to abandon the faith but Ive never heard of a single born again Christian doing so. One of the fruits of the spirit is the holy spirit keeping us in the faith. Even if a born again believer did leave God the holy spirit would convict them back into repentance.

When God promised us eternal life, he meant it.

 

[Rescued One]

Why are you using a text explaining the inclusion of Gentiles (operationalised freely, without merit or works from Gentiles) to teach that salvation is always free?

Give me a verse that says the Judgment of believers is not with obedience but without obedience.

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he
had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Rescued One]

You need both faith AND works to have salvation. That is simply because there is no such thing as faith without works. Our faith is kept alive by works and is founded on works. Belief itself is a work.

What does Romans say? Confess with your mouth the Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that he rose from the dead and you will be saved.

That is two works right there, confession and belief. However confessing Christ as Lord is an agreement to take on the Lord's commands. That is why he is called "the Lord", because he has laws that we follow if we truly think of him as the Lord.

Faith without works is dead, but works without faith are useless.

God is the Source of our faith. He gives it to us. He has never given anyone a dead faith!

1 Corinthians 4
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[☦Marius☦]

God is the Source of our faith. He gives it to us. He has never given anyone a dead faith!

1 Corinthians 4
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Hebrews 6:5
For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit

Phillipians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[aiki]

Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

If one holds that one's salvation is at all dependent upon the character of one's living, yes.

Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

I'm not sure why you've posted these verses. Paul indicates in them that what Christ has done in reconciling the Colossians to God he has done for "all things." We know, however, that not all things are actually reconciled to God (Matthew 7:14) and Paul makes this point to the Colossians. Christ has made a way through his atoning sacrifice potentially for any and all to be reconciled to God but actually being reconciled to Him is contingent upon a wholehearted trust in the hope of the Gospel who is Christ (Colossians 1:27). If a believer is moved away from that hope, away from Christ, he will inevitably neglect to confess his sins, by which he obtains the forgiveness that is in Christ (1 John 1:9), and so will not stand before God without blemish or free from accusation. Does Paul mean to say by this that one who has been reconciled to God can be unreconciled? Does Paul mean that one who is saved can be un-saved? That is more than Paul says in the verses above. Only if one has a pre-existing idea that one can lose one's salvation, and reads Paul's words through the lens of that presupposition, is one obliged to think he is teaching that one can be saved and then lost based upon one "continuing unmoved in the faith."

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

What does it mean to "defile (destroy) the temple of God"? Paul doesn't clarify. Why would one in whom the Spirit dwells do such a thing in the first place? Again, Paul doesn't offer any clarification. Is Paul talking about the eternal destruction of the destroyer of God's temple, or just the destruction of his earthly body (the "temple" in which God dwells) through sudden, fatal disease or injury that God levies in judgment upon him (Acts 5:1-10; 1 Corinthians 11:27-30)? In this, too, Paul is unclear. I do wonder at Paul's meaning in these verses when he has, in the verses just prior to them, written,

1 Corinthians 3:15
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The "work" that is burned up is that work not built upon Christ, that is, any work that does not have Christ and love for him as its foundation. That would, obviously, include work that is outright sin. Paul writes here, though, that even if all this kind of work is burned up, the believing man whose (sinful) work this is will still be saved. In light of this, I am very inclined to understand that when Paul writes immediately after of the man who destroys God's temple being himself destroyed by God, he means the destruction of the physical body only.