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Featured Does persevering in the faith imply earning salvation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ClementofA, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?

    Col.1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
    Col.1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

    Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    If one totaly ignores everything in the NT that talks about salvation being a free gift then yes you can make scripture say what you like.

    Jesus said if you 'love me' you will obey me.

    By seeking to earn/deserve your salvation you demonstrate you do not love Jesus.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    If you read the new testament without any preconceived ideas, you will find that baptism cleanses a person of his previous sins, and afterwards he is expected to participate in the sacramental life of the Church.

    That sacramental life includes abstaining from sin and doing good works. That is what is meant by enduring to the end.
     
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  4. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So was that a yes...or a no...to the question:

    Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?
     
  5. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So was that a yes...or a no...to the question:

    Does persevering in the faith by libertarian free will, enduring unto the end, cooperating with God, & obeying Christ - as opposed to thrusting away one's faith & becoming lost - imply earning salvation by works?
     
  6. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It does. It's always been like that. Man must cooperate with the grace of God to attain salvation.

    This is from the Confession of Dositheus, written by the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672 as something of an answer to the doctrines of protestantism. It is a restatement of beliefs held by Christianity since the beginning:

    And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not necessarily, especially if we think of faith as something that is passively received.

    The typical holiness perspective, though, that we "stay in" by our good behavior, and that certain sins cause us to lose our salvation, is potentially a kind of pelagianism, however.
     
  8. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    To the OP, nope, it implies the faithfulness of God in keeping His promises and His preserving producing perseverance. The preservatives are the blood of Christ and the perseverance of the Spirit with a believer. Sola Deo Gloria!
     
  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    If the Holy Spirit regenerates a person, that person perseveres (follows the Shepherd).

    Christian Works never produce salvation.jpg
     
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  10. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, it doesn't imply earning salvation, which none of us could do. It implies necessary responsibilities in order to remain saved. He empowers us to remain saved as well, but the ongoing choice that He has given us remains in our hands.
     
  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    That is an oxymoron. It is impossible to persevere in the faith by "libertarian free will."
     
  12. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Actually it is a NO.

    If you have accepted Jesus as saviour and Lord, then you will be kept in the faith by God.
    You might think that false libertine ideas of working to earn your salvation is doing it, but that is just your false ideas.
     
  13. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Maybe you are taking the Scriptures that mention salvation being a free gift, out of context.

    Offer up a quote and we will see.
     
  14. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Try :
    Ephesian 2 look at v 8, 9,13 and 15+16.
    they all say it is Jesus who has saved us.
    2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
    Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ
    11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

    Then there is Romans 1:16+17, 5 1Cor 1:26-31
    to quote a few.
     
  15. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are not saved by good works. Without Christ our works are as filthy rags.

    Isaiah 65

    6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

    We are saved for good works. The "works" begin after one is saved and we become new creatures in Christ and works are His good works, working through the believer.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    God Bless.
     
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  16. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Ephesians 2:8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


    This is addressed to Gentiles.

    The cutting off of Israel sent a tremendous shock through the Ancient Near East.

    The Jews tried to recover by insisting on circumcising all the Christians.

    The Gentiles insisted on keeping their old status: not circumcised. They reasoned that God was happier with uncircumcised people rather than circumcised. Paul announced not so: All have sinned, there is none righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God. The same argument of Romans 3:10. Gentiles were not more worthy.

    Gentiles were included in the "Grace Through Faith Type Salvation". All the Greek scholars agree that "it" qualifies the neuter antecedent, the phrase "saved by grace through faith".

    Even this inclusion was a gift. God made Israel stumble by confusing her: she thought she was the seed, but Christ was sent and became a stumbling block to her.

    The only reason God opened the Covenant to Gentiles was because Israel had been made to transgress. So that all could be made sinners, so that all needed mercy.

    Choose another verse. One at a time...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  17. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Just someone with no business here

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    What's libertarian free will?
     
  18. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    And we are gentiles, so it applies to us.
     
  19. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Why are you using a text explaining the inclusion of Gentiles (operationalised freely, without merit or works from Gentiles) to teach that salvation is always free?

    Give me a verse that says the Judgment of believers is not with obedience but without obedience.
     
  20. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    Better to answer:

    Luke Chapter 15

    Isaiah chapter 55.

    If a person really listens, these chapters will tell you what you really need to know about our choices and His. They are better than our theories. Did you notice Isaiah 55:9? If so, why think you can know all about this? I trust Isaiah 55:9 as being quite real and true. These chapters of salvation are not all He said to us, and if you really believe you'll want to hear all He said to you in the gospels.
     
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