Does marriage in the eyes of God have to be legalized?

[Foxfyre]

If they're not Christian, it doesn't matter what they do.

If they are Christian, then they have a relationship with the Body of Christ that will require openness and honesty about the relationship they have with each other. Yes, that means a formal announcement and living the way scripture teaches a husband and wife must live and by whatever rules their denomination lays down.

I'm not real big on laying down rules. I don't see Jesus teaching a lot of rules and regulations and how to do this or do that. That's why I won't presume to judge somebody who is trying to do the right thing without sin but has a unique problem to deal with that most of us do not have.

 

[Radagast]

I'm not real big on laying down rules. I don't see Jesus teaching a lot of rules and regulations and how to do this or do that. That's why I won't presume to judge somebody who is trying to do the right thing without sin but has a unique problem to deal with that most of us do not have.

I'm not sure that it's "unique," and there was some suggestion on the thread that defrauding the government might be a sin.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That makes no sense. If no crime or sin is being committed, fine.

If a crime or sin is being committed, it's not up to a bunch of random people on the Internet to offer grace.

Implied judgment such as "possibly pretending or lying" is still judgment.

 

[thesunisout]

My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?

As Christians, we are to follow the laws of the land according to Romans 13. Therefore a Christian should get legally married (to another Christian).

 

[Bearpat]

My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?

Three are many issues here that need to be addressed before your friend makes up her mind. Perhaps you should advise her to seek out an older Christian couple who have many, many years of marriage behind them; maybe her grandparents or others who she can speak to in a personal way. If she believes her pastor and family are biased, she could seek out a Christian counselor outside of the church as well. Tell her that this decision to marry will be one of the most important she will ever make and advise her to be patient. If her boyfriend truly loves her and desires a life long relationship, he will be willing to do whatever is necessary to win her and he will be willing to wait for her. Seeking God's Word in prayer is also something she should do as she goes forward. Most of all, support her and encourage her. Speak to her of God's love for her and His desire that she have the best that life offers.

 

[Swan7]

My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?

Why are you looking for the opinions of mankind? Why not get God's opinions straight from His Word? God will give you His truthful answer if you ask Him. I can't give you any input on this because what might be good for one may not be good for another and I don't want to cause anyone to stumble. So, I am directing you straight to God and to ask Him.

I will also add this: Matthew 22:21, Romans 13:1, 2 Corinthians 6:14, and of course the Bible as a whole. Genesis up to the NT.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm not real big on laying down rules. I don't see Jesus teaching a lot of rules and regulations and how to do this or do that. That's why I won't presume to judge somebody who is trying to do the right thing without sin but has a unique problem to deal with that most of us do not have.

I'm not talking about rules, I'm talking about relationships.

They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

When people are in a group relationship like that, they would need and deserve to know that two of them were getting "permanently committed" to each other. It would be dishonest not to tell something like that to the other members.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm not talking about rules, I'm talking about relationships.

They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

When people are in a group relationship like that, they would need and deserve to know that two of them were getting "permanently committed" to each other. It would be dishonest not to tell something like that to the other members.

Why? What business is it of the other members unless they have something invested in the couple's relationship itself?

 

[RDKirk]

Why? What business is it of the other members unless they have something invested in the couple's relationship itself?

If they have made a commitment to make sure all your needs are met, they have a right to know that you're going into a relationship. Especially if both of you are part of the group. That means, for instance, that neither of you is available to anyone else in the group.

It's their business because you're part of the Body.

 

[Serving Zion]

Remember that if a man takes a woman out in a field, or is with a prostitute even,
it is written (God see's) that they become ONE FLESH. That is what God see's (and what God says).
Should they tell everyone , government, church, and so on ?

Not everyone can be trusted with the truth, Jeff (consider 1 Corinthians 2:7, Matthew 10:7, Matthew 12:36).

 

[Boidae]

Blind post here.

If the person has SSDI and not SSI (there is a difference) then what the spouse makes has no bearing on whether the disabled person gets a check or not.

The spouse can make a million dollars and the disabled spouse will still receive a SSDI check .

 

[Foxfyre]

If they have made a commitment to make sure all your needs are met, they have a right to know that you're going into a relationship. Especially if both of you are part of the group. That means, for instance, that neither of you is available to anyone else in the group.

It's their business because you're part of the Body.

I will agree to disagree on that. I don't see anyplace in the issue at question in this thread that anybody is having all their needs met by anybody. And I'm pretty sure that such a communistic society was not the way it was for the first Christians either. Even Paul counseled that he who will not work, let him not eat, even as he urged compassion for the truly needy among them.

 

[RDKirk]

I will agree to disagree on that. I don't see anyplace in the issue at question in this thread that anybody is having all their needs met by anybody. And I'm pretty sure that such a communistic society was not the way it was for the first Christians either. Even Paul counseled that he who will not work, let him not eat, even as he urged compassion for the truly needy among them.

Imagine if Rachel and David got married and kept it secret from Chandler, Monica, Joey, and Phoebe.

 

[buzuxi02]

I can't answer that question unless you identify who "we" are. Are you saying the Church can get rid of marriage?

The State we live in. Once the state starts allowing polygamy can we the people tell them to get out of the marriage business.

After all you've already made the point anout common law marriage. The courts will recognize common law to begin with. I didnt even know that in places that recognizes common law a third party can petition a judge to declare you legally married.

 

[JosephZ]

No, they apply to the whole country. Every village has a District (see the map) and a District Registrar. You seem to have a very distorted view of life in Africa.

While Zambia has marriage laws, tribal groups in that country are still allowed to follow their traditional and customary marriage practices. They are not bound by the laws and registration of marriages is not a requirement. This practice of allowing exemptions for tribal and religious groups is common in many countries around the world. Here in the Philippines for example, the law states that the legal age for marriage is 18 without exception and parental consent is required for applicants between 18 and 21 years old. However, members of the lumad and Moro tribes are able to follow their customary practices. They do not have to register or notify the government of marriages, and unlike the general public, there's no minimum age on when a person can get married. Puberty is usually the determining factor as to when a person becomes eligible to be married.

 

[Radagast]

While Zambia has marriage laws, tribal groups in that country are still allowed to follow their traditional and customary marriage practices.

Well, pretty much everybody in Zambia is "tribal," but you're right, there is a parallel "customary law" marriage system in that country which covers a minority of marriages (it also allows polygamy).

But AFAIK, they still keep track of "customary law" marriages, because being in a "customary law" marriage is grounds for forbidding a Christian marriage, and vice versa.

 

[JosephZ]

But AFAIK, they still keep track of "customary law" marriages, because being in a "customary law" marriage is grounds for forbidding a Christian marriage, and vice versa.

I doubt that the government is aware of most of the marriages taking place within the tribal communities and the tribal leaders have no real incentive to document or inform the government of the marriages taking place. Another problem is that many of those getting married have no birth records or documentation. Many people in developing countries like Zambia are born without being registered, get married without it ever being recorded, and die without a death certificate, so as far as the government is concerned they never existed.

Religion wouldn't be a factor one way or the other as far as customary marriages are concerned. With most of the population of Zambia being Christian, many of the unregistered marriages taking place in the tribal communities would incorporate some sort of Christian rites into the ceremony as many of the tribal members would identify as being Christian.

 

[barefeetonholyground]

No longer Christians--total BS. The Bible says that NOTHING can snatch us from our Father's hand.
Living in sin--yes! Romans 13 makes it very clear that we are to obey governing authorities.

 

[RDKirk]

No longer Christians--total BS. The Bible says that NOTHING can snatch us from our Father's hand.
Living in sin--yes! Romans 13 makes it very clear that we are to obey governing authorities.

While I don't particularly believe in OSAS, I agree that Romans 13 does make clear that ordinary compliance with government rules that actually have a positive benefit to the Body (such as guarding against bigamy) certainly isn't something that snatches us from our Father's hand.

 

[barefeetonholyground]

While I don't particularly believe in OSAS, I agree that Romans 13 does make clear that ordinary compliance with government rules that actually have a positive benefit to the Body (such as guarding against bigamy) certainly isn't something that snatches us from our Father's hand.

I wasn't necessarily talking about OSAS.
But preaching that a single sin, such as not obeying government authority, would not cause you to lose your Christianity.
Honestly, how is the idea that one sin could cost you your salvation and different from life before being saved?