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Featured Does marriage in the eyes of God have to be legalized?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by baptistgirl21, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    They will have to live that lie, every day and every document they ever sign, because the government has begun using all means--social media analysis and everything--to verify benefit payouts. If (or when) the government discerns that a fraud has occurred, the couple could see garnishment of whatever wages they have, maybe even jail.
     
  2. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

    +419
    United States
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    Married
    US-Republican
    That is what the welfare\nanny state does. Makes you a slave, by design. I have offered guys a job and all they can think about is losing their benefits even though I'm paying them four times a much as their benefits do. Its crazy the subjugation of the mind.
     
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  3. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    There's a few things that need to be addressed on this issue. In many states it's illegal for a clergyman to perform a marriage without a state license such as in my state of NY (I'm not kidding you).
    The second thing is some Church's believe that marriage is a sacrament (such as my own) , in that case you are required to have a Church wedding (but not a government license), however in most countries your required to get the government paperwork done in order to schedule the wedding.

    Note how I said most countries. Some countries do not have civil marriages. For example Israel does not get involved in the marriage business and each faith community governs it's own affairs. In most of Eastern Europe there was a time government had nothing to do with marriage. In my native country of Greece for example there was no such thing as licenses or civil unions until about 1982 or so. Or you can travel to many countries to small villages whether in Latin America or Siberia where central government authority does not have reach and bypass the first world red tape marriage bureacracy.
     
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  4. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

    +5,880
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    we married in a church and still needed a marriage license
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  5. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

    +7,269
    Australia
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    Yes it does (like most countries). It just requires that an officially recognised religious body perform the ceremonies and adjudicate divorces. There are still legally recognised bits of paper.

    Virtually all countries "get involved in the marriage business" (and have done so for thousands of years) because of the legal property and inheritance implications.

    Of course; it would be dishonest. A marriage without a state license would look like a marriage, but would be legally invalid. Such a sham could be used to fool parents, fool brides, or avoid the penalty for bigamy.
     
  6. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

    +5,880
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    "SSDI is the benefit paid to disabled workers who have paid taxes into the Social Security for multiple years. To receive SSDI, you have to fit the Social Security Administration’s (SSA’s) definition of disability, but you can be unmarried or married. Getting married won’t ever effect SSDI benefits that you collect based on your own disability and your own earnings record."


    however, if he is on SSI
    which is for those who didn't pay enough into social security, when a person marries, there is a complicated formula they use which is "deeming"
    the new spouse's income is deemed available to the other spouse and depending on how much they make, the benefit would be decreased or could disappear


    What Will Happen If Someone is Found Guilty on Welfare Fraud?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  7. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,677
    United States
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    I am disabled. When your on disability you can get married if you like. Disability in the U.S. is based on your earnings and has nothing to do with household income. .ca can legally marry anyone he wants, and her income will never prevent him from getting his disability check each month, it sounds like he is confused about disability law, or deceiving her.

    That said, marriage is a covenant and the state doesn't have to approve two people making a covanent with one another before God and their freinds and family UNLESS the state she is living in requires it. (And many states, believe it or not, still require a marriage license to co- habitate as husband and wife, and Christians do have to follow the laws of the land unless it is expressly against our faith)

    Look up covanent marriage..Those are marriages that follow our Christian beliefs but still offer protections to the couple.

    The reason most Pastors have something against performing marriages without state involvement is because if the man turns out to be a deadbeat the woman involved and any potential offspring have little to no legal protections.

    The red flag in your post is what I said in my first paragraph about spousal income having no affect on disability payments - it doesn't and he might be attempting to mislead her into a sinful relationship. No Pastor should help him to do that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  8. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,677
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    I have social security disability and if my husband stopped working tomorrow my disability would only go up by 150 dollars per month under the social security disability insurance.

    It's not that big of a deal, they really don't give you much... in my house the benefit of a working husband far far far outweighs that 150 dollars. And that additional money is only because he is in the household. If I wasn't married they wouldn't increase my SSD at all.

    Anyone who is that worried over so little is likely not wanting to get married so much in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  9. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

    +688
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Years ago, we had some friends who both lived in a home for the disabled. She was permanently in wheelchair and he was able to walk a little but also pretty much in a wheelchair. They weren't allowed to be legally married because the home did not permit it. So our pastor (I was Lutheran at the time) did it "under the table".
     
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  10. whereloveandmercymeet

    whereloveandmercymeet There but for the grace of God...

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    That seems so unfair :(
     
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  11. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    So her boyfriend would rather continue to receive benefits than commit himself, in marriage, to her?

    In God's eyes it is consummation of the marriage that makes two people married.
    And I think in law, if they went through a ceremony, wanted to split a year later and testified that the marriage had never been consummated, it would be annulled.
    It sounds to me as though this is what you mean by "marrying someone" without having a marriage licence or going through a ceremony.

    Jesus said that for this reason a man leaves his family and joins with his wife; that they would become one flesh.
    Paul taught that sexual relations outside of marriage is wrong.
    Her Christian friends, and family, are "pestering her about it" for a reason - having intimate, sexual relations with someone before marriage is not God's ideal, or plan, for us.

    From what you've said, her boyfriend CAN legally do it - there's no law against getting married.
    He may not be WILLING to, because he'll get more money as a single disabled person than as a married disabled person - but that is an entirely different matter.
    Is that even the case? Could be get a part time job and still keep many of his benefits? Could his wife claim carer's allowance?

    It's not ONE Christian though, is it? It's her family and friends - who are saying what they say because of the Bible's teaching.

    Granted.
    But we're not talking about that; we're talking about going against the Bible's teaching.

    No, not always.

    Going to hell is not determined by whether or not you drink alcohol. Nor, actually, is it determined by whether or not you sleep with someone before marriage. But if you love God, you will want to please HIM first, obey his word and not do anything to hurt him.

    If they're judging people not to be Christians because they have different Christian practices - like baptising babies, or anything else - then you are right, they should not do that; no one should.
    But they have the right to say, "this is what Scripture says .... you may be a Christian if you ignore it and do your own thing, but your life will not be showing obedience and producing good fruit."
     
  12. Angeldove97

    Angeldove97 In the Lord, my labor is not in vain Supporter

    +1,922
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Married
    The Catholic Church requires that we have a marriage license - so there's no way around being sacramentally married and legally married. I put much more value into the Sacrament of course, but try to get away with fraud is a sin too. Their best bet is to legally get married, as well as, have a church wedding if they want to be "good" Christians.

    Hubby and I would have saved so much money on our taxes, but we knew the best thing to do was to legally become married. Also, I wanted my husband to have legal say if anything happened to me - she won't have that if it ever happens to them.
     
  13. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

    +2,345
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    What the hell state or country does your friend live in that they'd lose their disability check for getting a marriage license? I get disability and I have a marriage license. My wife and I have been married for almost four years now. I never lost my check. I'm what BS social security is feeding your friend but by law they shouldn't lose their disability check just for getting married.

    As to whether or not getting married without a license is a sin or not I have no clue. But won't 99.9% of places not marry you without a marriage license? The judge that married my wife and I couldn't marry us until we got one.
     
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    New York requires a marriage license to be signed by a clergycritter ordained by any religion. Anyone ordained by whatever rules of whatever religion is "licensed" to perform weddings in NY. New York has no specific rule or provisions for who can be ordained or how that person is ordained. The "license" is merely an ID card.
     
  15. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    In Canada common law marriage is recognized by the courts after one to three years (depending on province) as the same as a church or civil marriage in terms of rights and obligations. I suspect that may be true in the USA as well.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    So it is meant by her friends she has to become a ward of the state to be married or have legal sex. It didn't use to be that way. Yes there are or can arise legal issues that come into play if a separation occurs. But those seem to have disappeared with palimony law suits. The way I see life is a marriage license is a tax on sex. A marriage is a religious rite the state now taxes. A marriage license is also the right to enter a business relationship to which there are no rules. That is why many of them fail. Marriage isn't a business for gain. Well it's not supposed to be anyway. But we have things like gold diggers. People marry for money, jobs and uncontrolled passions/gratification, but not for love. The commitment these days is to self.

    I've no idea what marriage has to do with disability. What seems to be the case here is the love of money and not the possible future spouse. I think the girl should reconsider the relationship with her boyfriend. It looks like nothing but bondage to me.
     
  17. A Realist

    A Realist Living in Reality

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    Depends on the state they live in.
    Common Law Marriage Fact Sheet — Unmarried Equality
     
  18. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    What ever happened to separation of church and state? No a marriage license is bringing the state into the marriage bed. So you also marry the state when you do so under license.
     
  19. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

    +2,460
    Catholic
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    Why would he lose his disability check if he was legally married? He must not be disabled then, but gets a check because his spouse died and children are involved. If so, I would think it would be sin because defrauding the government would be lying.
    Why would they not be able to legally marry?
    Have you read Romans 14? If not, do. You will see how something can be sinful for one denomination and not another.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's just silly.

    But the rules of the state will apply if you ever want anything regarding your marriage from the state, so you will find yourself answering the question of "separation of church and state."

    As long as you never, ever need or want anything regarding your marriage from the state, don't follow their rules and you'll be fine.
     
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