Does Karma make people rich or poor ?

[mukk_in]

The rich copulate with the rich.

Yes they do .

 

[SPF]

Yes they do .

I know I sure did... and do....

 

[cloudyday2]

There are hundred thousands trillions of dollars in the bank account of this world which cannot reach the poor because this is just an ignorant and stingy world.

Wealth redistribution is probably less effective than helping poor people and poor nations correct the problems that make them poor. (Of course that costs money too.) For example, many poor nations have civil wars, corrupt governments, etc. Similarly, many poor people have too many children, no education, bad nutrition, etc. In the US, many poor people have mental health problems, substance abuse problems, irresponsible spending habits, etc.

The UN and similar groups have been making a lot of progress in the past 20 years. Hopefully even the warfare will decrease if people are not so miserable and poor.

 

[cloudyday2]

Coincidentally I watched a presentation by a Christian from India about Hinduism ("Hinduism: The Science of Becoming One with Everything" by Vishal Mangalwadi).

Mangalwadi argues that Hinduism is responsible for the poverty in India - not British colonialism. The belief in karma makes people somewhat less sympathetic to the poor, so the problems are not addressed as vigorously by government.
Vishal Mangalwadi - Wikipedia

 

[ananda]

The home of the concept of Karma:

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I could also point you to photos of Christian slums.

As I understand it, Karma is simply the Law of Cause & Effect. How is that controversial?

 

[cloudyday2]

I could also point you to photos of Christian slums.

As I understand it, Karma is simply the Law of Cause & Effect. How is that controversial?

My impression is that belief in karma and reincarnation lessens the urgency of fixing actual physical poverty in this life. A poor person might hope to be reborn rich by doing the right religious service. A rich person might feel that poverty serves a spiritual purpose. That's my take.

 

[ananda]

My impression is that belief in karma and reincarnation lessens the urgency of fixing actual physical poverty in this life.

Karma is empowering to me ... under the knowledge that causes I perform results in relevant effects, it is therefore within my capacity to effect my own advancement.

A poor person might hope to be reborn rich by doing the right religious service. A rich person might feel that poverty serves a spiritual purpose. That's my take.

That could be a Hindu perspective on karma, but it is different in early Buddhism as I understand it.

 

[dlamberth]

You know who else has a lot of money that doesn't reach the poor? Churches and ministries.

That's one of the reasons why I believe that there is Jesus and than there is the Church, two different things that only occasionally cross paths.

 

[Zoness]

The home of the concept of Karma:

​

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

 

[Anguspure]

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

In India it is commonly recognized that to help an impoverished person in distress is to interfere with the natural process of Karma. The one who suffers is merely working out his Karma from a previous life.
As a result India is an extremely wealthy nation and yet this sort of squalor is viewed with indifference to the plight of the people.
Now it is true that squalor and poverty may be experienced in other places for other reasons, such as greed and other stupidity. But in India, I would suggest, the doctrine of Karma plays a dominant role.

 

[dlamberth]

I want to introduce the Andean Version of Karma which is called "Ayni"

Ayni is, perhaps, the most fundamental principle of the Andean Cosmovision. It does not fall easily into Western thought, for it is essentially about relationship while we in the West tend to focus on outcomes. Ayni is about a balance between giving and receiving; between people, between people and Nature, and between people and the Cosmos (in a way that is hardly conceivable within the Western world-view of the basic inanimate nature of the Cosmos). Ayni is the organizing principle for the flow of energy in the expanded view of reality of the Andes.

Go here for further reading...
Ayni – Salka Wind Blog

 

[Another Lazarus]

In India it is commonly recognized that to help an impoverished person in distress is to interfere with the natural process of Karma. The one who suffers is merely working out his Karma from a previous life.

Thats why God has to put the "innocent" Richs into the hell because they do not share their wealth with the poors. They have become like animals who feed for its own stomach only.

 

[ananda]

In India it is commonly recognized that to help an impoverished person in distress is to interfere with the natural process of Karma.

Interference with karma is a core practice of Buddhism.

 

[Zoness]

In India it is commonly recognized that to help an impoverished person in distress is to interfere with the natural process of Karma. The one who suffers is merely working out his Karma from a previous life.
As a result India is an extremely wealthy nation and yet this sort of squalor is viewed with indifference to the plight of the people.
Now it is true that squalor and poverty may be experienced in other places for other reasons, such as greed and other stupidity. But in India, I would suggest, the doctrine of Karma plays a dominant role.

As I understand it, the idea of Karma isn't limited to a specific religion and even in the religions that is plays a role there is substantial variation among the denominations and schools of thought. I have no doubt that exactly what you describe is true for a subset of adherents but I think its too risky to say that it applies too all religions that incorporate Karma.

 

[Anguspure]

As I understand it, the idea of Karma isn't limited to a specific religion and even in the religions that is plays a role there is substantial variation among the denominations and schools of thought. I have no doubt that exactly what you describe is true for a subset of adherents but I think its too risky to say that it applies too all religions that incorporate Karma.

It seems to me that at the end of the day the concept is another form of the idea that universal justice can be satisfied by good deeds. That a person can somehow pay their dues by making up for what ever evil they have done with some balance of morality.
In my view this both misunderstands the nature of the moral principle and goodness, and the compounding effects of even the slightest hint of evil, that must be met with justice in a system where goodness will prevail.

 

[ananda]

It seems to me that at the end of the day the concept is another form of the idea that universal justice can be satisfied by good deeds. That a person can somehow pay their dues by making up for what ever evil they have done with some balance of morality.

IMO this is a common & simplistic, but erroneous view of karma - at least the way early Buddhists like myself see it. Good deeds do not nullify bad deeds.

Instead, karma simply means that we must fully reap the consequences of all our actions. If we do bad deeds, we must experience the bad results corresponding to those deeds.

When we recognize that we must change our direction in life, we change our deeds so they become good in order to experience correspondingly good results in the future.

When we change in such a way, it does not eliminate or nullify the bad results we must necessarily reap as a result of our past bad deeds, but it prevents us from performing more bad deeds & from reaping additional bad results in the future.

 

[JackRT]

Does Karma make people rich or poor ?

My late lamented Karma (see photo at left) certainly made my life richer.

 

[cloudyday2]

It seems to me that at the end of the day the concept is another form of the idea that universal justice can be satisfied by good deeds. That a person can somehow pay their dues by making up for what ever evil they have done with some balance of morality.
In my view this both misunderstands the nature of the moral principle and goodness, and the compounding effects of even the slightest hint of evil, that must be met with justice in a system where goodness will prevail.

I see karma as the Hindu solution to the "problem of evil" and Santa Claus's "naughty list". If a meteorite destroys Job's house and family there is no problem, because Job must have done something to deserve it in a previous life. And Job should be good even though he seems to be getting nothing but misery in return, because the fruits might come in a future life.

Another way that I like even better (because it eliminates the need for a morality accountant) is to imagine that there is only one person in the universe. If I hurt somebody, I actually hurt myself because I am everybody in the universe. If I damage the environment with chemicals, then I will suffer the results in future centuries as I live the lives of the various wildlife in that environment. This is probably the way that many Hindus think about karma, because the unity of everything is a theme in Hinduism.

 

[Anguspure]

IMO this is a common & simplistic, but erroneous view of karma - at least the way early Buddhists like myself see it. Good deeds do not nullify bad deeds.

Instead, karma simply means that we must fully reap the consequences of all our actions. If we do bad deeds, we must experience the bad results corresponding to those deeds.

When we recognize that we must change our direction in life, we change our deeds so they become good in order to experience correspondingly good results in the future.

When we change in such a way, it does not eliminate or nullify the bad results we must necessarily reap as a result of our past bad deeds, but it prevents us from performing more bad deeds & from reaping additional bad results in the future.

Thanks for the clarification. It would seem that my view needs to be modified a little. I would still maintain however that the nature of evil is such that the inevitable and ultimate consequence of evil is unavoidable death, that any evil for which a person is culpable for immediately renders them morally bankrupt (which I guess you will see for the Judeo Christian view that it is).

I like what you say about interference with Karma being a core practice of Buddhism, because it seems to me that this is the whole of what the Creative purpose of God is about, and what is meant by Agape Love as well as the idea of Light in the darkness.

A friend of mine, who is into Eastern mysticism, when he fully appraised the story of Jesus Christ and what He has done as an innocent man taking the entire burden of justice upon Himself (from those who accept Him), was horrified and said to me, "that would mean that he has opened a black hole in Karma!".
Subversive indeed.

 

[TheOldWays]

My late lamented Karma (see photo at left) certainly made my life richer.

Looked like a fine hound.