Does Jesus' sisters and brothers have descendants?

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

Does Jesus' sisters and brothers have descendants?
Mother Mary had other children, right?
Do they have descendants that we can trace until today?

 

[tampasteve]

Well, different Traditions believe different things about what the scripture actually means when we read "brothers and sisters of Jesus". Some think they were cousins or similar relations, others think it means the actual step-siblings. I tend to agree with actual step-siblings.

That said, the family line cannot be traced to today either way as far as I am aware. But there is a tradition in some traditions that the decedents of James (the brother of Jesus) were the head of the church in Jerusalem for some time.

Mother Mary had other children, right?

Very few traditions maintain that Mary has any Children herself after Jesus. Most maintain that they were from Joseph, step-children in modern language. It is a VERY old belief that she did not have any other children herself.

 

[dqhall]

Does Jesus' sisters and brothers have descendants?
Mother Mary had other children, right?
Do they have descendants that we can trace until today?

Matthew 12:46-50
World English Bible

46 While he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, seeking to speak to him. 47 One said to him, “Behold, your mother and your brothers stand outside, seeking to speak to you.”

48 But he answered him who spoke to him, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” 49 He stretched out his hand toward his disciples, and said, “Behold, my mother and my brothers!50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

 

[Hank77]

I believe-

Mother Mary had other children, right?

Jesus was the only biological child of Mary.

Does Jesus' sisters and brothers have descendants?

Yes, there were several so probability says they did have children.

Do they have descendants that we can trace until today?

Maybe, but they would not be biological descendants of Mary or Jesus.

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

Well, different Traditions believe different things about what the scripture actually means when we read "brothers and sisters of Jesus". Some think they were cousins or similar relations, others think it means the actual step-siblings. I tend to agree with actual step-siblings.

That said, the family line cannot be traced to today either way as far as I am aware. But there is a tradition in some traditions that the decedents of James (the brother of Jesus) were the head of the church in Jerusalem for some time.


Very few traditions maintain that Mary has any Children herself after Jesus. Most maintain that they were from Joseph, step-children in modern language. It is a VERY old belief that she did not have any other children herself.

does it mean Joseph marry other woman?
polygamy allowed in Jewish tradition?

 

[prodromos]

does it mean Joseph marry other woman?
polygamy allowed in Jewish tradition?

Tradition states that Joseph was a widower with adult children of his own when he and Mary were betrothed.

 

[tampasteve]

does it mean Joseph marry other woman?
polygamy allowed in Jewish tradition?

Not really by that time, but it was allowed in the distant past. As @prodromos said, generally it is held that Joseph had children from a previous marriage where the wife passed away.

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

You mean Mary was Joseph second wife?
So Jesus was the youngest in the family?

 

[prodromos]

You mean Mary was Joseph second wife?
So Jesus was the youngest in the family?

Yes. When you read in the Gospels how His brothers intrract with Him, it is consistent with them being older. If Jesus was the eldest then He would have had authority over His brothers, not just because of His age but especially because they would have grown up in the shadow of the perfect older brother. His love and compassion, and His wisdom would have had a deep and lasting impression on them.
Instead, they treat Him like a celebrity little brother, trying to direct or control Him. It is not at all consistent with Him being the eldest.

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

I don't agree with you, the story Nativity of did not mention Joseph and Mary carried the baby with other children.
During their escape to Egypt, only 3 persons in the Family - the couple and the baby boy.
Mary is free to conceive other children after the birth of Jesus.
There is nothing wrong for her to sleep with Joseph.

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

Joseph could have died earlier when his children were still young, and Jesus as the big brother in the family, was responsible to work as carpenter to feed the family.
Jesus' profession is carpenter, and he is building his new Jerusalem in heaven now, waiting for the End Days.

 

[prodromos]

I don't agree with you, the story Nativity of did not mention Joseph and Mary carried the baby with other children.

That is because they were no longer children, they were adults

 

[prodromos]

IMary is free to conceive other children after the birth of Jesus.
There is nothing wrong for her to sleep with Joseph.

I don't know that a righteous man like Joseph, would consider putting his 'seed' into the same womb where God Almighty had just spent 9 months. Centuries earlier, God had made His abode in the Ark of the Covenant, and it was considered so holy that no one could even touch it

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

What you said is not Biblical.
Joseph and Mary and baby Jesus traveled alone to Egypt, no other children followed them.
Jesus' other siblings were born in Nazareth after they had come back.

 

[prodromos]

What you said is not Biblical.
Joseph and Mary and baby Jesus traveled alone to Egypt, no other children followed them.
Jesus' other siblings were born in Nazareth after they had come back.

When do you believe the Bible states they had other children? When Jesus was left at the Temple in Jerusalem as a young boy there are still no other children mentioned. I would be careful about accusing others of being unbiblical when your own claims have no biblical basis.

 

[LayHong_Loves_Christ]

Mark 6:3 tells us that Jesus had four younger brothers and at least two sisters, the children of Mary and Joseph. The sisters’ names have not been preserved, but the brothers were called James (in the Hebrew, Jacob), Joses (in the Hebrew, Joseph, after his father), Simon, and Judas or Juda (also known as Jude). (See also Matt. 13:55.)

Although there is no scriptural evidence for it, tradition claims that when Mary’s husband died, her eldest son, Jesus, took over his business and supported the family until his brothers and sisters were married or independent. Even if that were not true, by the time Jesus was thirty, evidently his mother was a widow, and as the oldest male in the family, Jesus was sought out when there were important family matters to consider, even after he had given up his carpenter tools and engaged full-time in his ministry. (See Matt. 12:46–47.)

They were a close family. After the marriage at Cana (because of Mary’s and Jesus’ roles at the feast, the wedding was most likely that of a close relative), the whole family accompanied Jesus and his earliest disciples to nearby Capernaum, where they stayed for a short time. (See John 2:1–12.)

 

[DragonFox91]

It’s crazy traditions didn’t develop saying XXXX is the brother Jesus, or even step-brother. Look at the Gnostics. They made fabrications. Wonder why no one ever fabricated being a descendant of Joseph or Mary.

 

[tampasteve]

It’s crazy traditions didn’t develop saying XXXX is the brother Jesus, or even step-brother. Look at the Gnostics. They made fabrications. Wonder why no one ever fabricated being a descendant of Joseph or Mary.

Well, I mean, they did develop traditions about it: "James the brother of Jesus".

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Historian Hegesippus:


Concerning the relatives of our saviour:

His Brother (of the flesh (Mary)) Judas had grandsons.


There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Judas, who according to the flesh was called his brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done.



They came, then, and took the presidency of every church, as witnesses for Christ, and as being of the kindred of the Lord. And, after profound peace had been established in every church, they remained down to the reign of Trojan Caesar: that is, until the time when he who was sprung from an uncle of the Lord, the aforementioned Symeon son of Clopas


And after James the Just had suffered martyrdom, as had the Lord also and on the same account, again Symeon the son of Clopas, descended from the Lord's uncle, is made bishop, his election being promoted by all as being a kinsman of the Lord.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It’s crazy traditions didn’t develop saying XXXX is the brother Jesus, or even step-brother. Look at the Gnostics. They made fabrications. Wonder why no one ever fabricated being a descendant of Joseph or Mary.

Early Christians believed that Mary only ever had one Child, Jesus. Jesus' siblings, in the oldest writings that talk about it, are said to have been the children of Joseph from a previous marriage (that he was a widower), and so Mary was their step-mom. Later on, in the West, some like St. Jerome were of the opinion that Jesus' siblings were cousins, because the Greek word adelphoi ("brothers") could describe close-kin, not just brothers. This is why in the Western Church, historically, Jesus' brothers and sisters were seen as being His blood-cousins, whereas in the Eastern Church, they believe they were the children of Joseph from his previous marriage.

These ideas were rejected by some Protestants later on, largely as part of the general trend to reject anything that could be perceived as "Popish"; but nevertheless it is what the earliest Christian writers on the subject say and testify.

Also, nobody would have needed to fabricate such a claim, because "relatives of the Lord" did exist in the early Church. Until the Bar Kochba Rebellion in the 2nd century, a number of the bishops of Jerusalem were Deposyni, "relatives of the Lord", or more literally "[those] of the Lord's [family]". Jesus' brother Jude had children and grandchildren, and like James before, Jude's grandson Judah (called Judah Kyriakos, meaning "Judah of the Lord's house/family") was the last Jewish bishop of Jerusalem.

In 70 AD the Jewish-Roman War resulted in the destruction of the Jewish Temple and much of the city was destroyed by the Roman military led by Emperor Vespasian's son, Titus. In the 130's a man by the name of Simon Bar Kochba, whom many Jews proclaimed to be the messiah, took up arms in rebellion against Rome leading to the Second Jewish-Roman War. With Bar Kochba's defeat, Emperor Hadrian passed an edict which forcibly exiled all Jews from Jerusalem, and Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina, a Roman colony. Hadrian had a temple built on the Temple Mount dedicated to Jupiter (Jupiter Capitolinus). Since Jerusalem had been reduced to almost nothing, and had become a Roman colony, the bishop of Caesarea ended up being the most prominent diocese in Judea/Palestine. With Judah's exile (and death in 248-249 AD), a Greek Christian by the name of Marcus was made bishop of Aelia Capitolina. Though the Jerusalem ceased to be a major metropolitan center due to the Roman attacks against the city, the Church continued to recognize Jerusalem as one of the most important seats of Christianity in the ancient world, and was recognized by the later Ecumenical Councils as one of the five "Pentarcharies" of the Church, along with Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria. The Jerusalem Church continuing to be confessed as "Mother to all the Churches" since she was first.

In the East one can still see churches which follow the Liturgy of St. James, a liturgical order of worship that originated in Jerusalem, and is attributed to James the brother of the Lord (though this attribution is almost certainly apocryphal). Specifically the Aramaic-speaking Churches, such as the Syriac Church, keeps to the Jerusalem liturgical tradition that has been in use in Judea/Palestine and Syria since antiquity. Though most Eastern Orthodox Christians today use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, from the 4th century written by St. John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople at the time.

More about this ancient Christian liturgical rite can be found here and here.

Which is all to say, there was no need to make anything up, because the early Church had a lived experience of these events. It seems very likely that Judah Kyriakos had no children of his own, and there weren't any who tried to claim to be descended from the Lord's family. This, I think, is a good thing. Nepotism is bad enough, how much worse could it be had there been people trying to take advantage of church offices by claiming to be descendants of the Lord's family? We already saw how ugly things got in the high middle ages when the episcopal seat in Rome became something that could go to the highest bidder, and Popes were having illegitimate children and then granting those children (whom they claimed to be "nephews", hence the very word nepo(nephew)tism itself) an inherited bishop's chair?

It was ugly back then. It was so ugly that it led to three separate schisms (the Great or East-West Schism, the Western or Papal Schism, and then finally the Protestant Reformation).

-CryptoLutheran