Does Jesus care Whether I Attend Church?

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You are surely a man of extremes. Look back and tell me where I "condemn" people as you say. By the way only God can condemn. So, your judgement of me being God is way off base. Saying that most people are not interested in godly things today, does not mean I am "condemning" them. They always have the choice to change their minds and priorities and this is my hope - as it is God's hope for them as well.

I only present the Truth of God, which is meant to heal people of themselves, by convicting them and helping people see God's Truth that can truly set them free.

Everything I am doing is out of love for my God and my fellow man - so to glorify God and bring others into a more loving and full relationship with God. People have to understand they are sick before they can understand they need to be healed. I understand that the Truth of God sometimes hurts, at least at first, but when the Truth manifests its self in people, they are way better off for it. This is one of God's ways of showing His love to His loved ones.

If you see this as me being on my "high horse", than so be it, but I will not stop what I am doing for God and others just because you personally don't like the approach God has called me too.

Instead of trying to re-direct God's calling for others, try concentrating on your own judging of others first. Usually the things that people don't like about others, are the very things they have a problem with themselves.

Hey Calling......,
I suppose it is beneath you to realize that there are several of us on here that see the exact same things about you that BryanW92 sees.

When you make statemeants such as there are "baby christians and true Christians" you are judging others and condemning those who are not as perfected as you see yourself.

You, Callinginthedesert, have an arrogance that everyone on here EXCEPT YOU, sees.

You are an arrogant, prig, holier than thou, legalist. You have made it clear that there are those like you=perfect, though they are very few, and the rest of us, non-Christians that are decieved into believing we are Christians, that do not measure up to your standards, er, ah, "God's" standard of living, since you see yourself speaking for God here.

Why do you think that is, Mike?
 
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Back to the OP:

Yes, Jesus cares whether or not we attend Church, even though we are the Church.

God is a relational God and Father. He desires that we have loving fellowship, with Him, with others of the faith, with others of humanity, though, He specifies the terms of each of those 3 relationships.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Do you think it makes a difference if we just attend and don't officially join a local church?

To who?

To God? Probably not.
To the person who attends and doesn't join? Only rarely.
To the church they don't join? Yes, most certainly.

Joining a church is in some ways like a marriage, or maybe adoption would be a better analogy. To be part of a church is like being part of a family. That is one reason why it hurts so much when it goes bad. But imagine some one has become a part of the family in every way except to make it official, and when one proposes to make it official they say, "No, thank-you."

It doesn't matter how politely they say it. It doesn't matter how many good reasons they have for not joining. It still hurts. There is a sense of, wonder what's wrong with us? But the church can never tell you that.
 
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BryanW92

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To be part of a church is like being part of a family. That is one reason why it hurts so much when it goes bad. But imagine some one has become a part of the family in every way except to make it official, and when one proposes to make it official they say, "No, thank-you."

It doesn't matter how politely they say it. It doesn't matter how many good reasons they have for not joining. It still hurts. There is a sense of, wonder what's wrong with us? But the church can never tell you that.

That's a great way of explaining it.
 
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CallingInTheDesert

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Hey Calling......,
I suppose it is beneath you to realize that there are several of us on here that see the exact same things about you that BryanW92 sees.

When you make statemeants such as there are "baby christians and true Christians" you are judging others and condemning those who are not as perfected as you see yourself.

You, Callinginthedesert, have an arrogance that everyone on here EXCEPT YOU, sees.

You are an arrogant, prig, holier than thou, legalist. You have made it clear that there are those like you=perfect, though they are very few, and the rest of us, non-Christians that are decieved into believing we are Christians, that do not measure up to your standards, er, ah, "God's" standard of living, since you see yourself speaking for God here.

Why do you think that is, Mike?

I think you (Gods4Life4Ever), BryanW92, and I should ignore each other's posts from this point forward. It is clear we don't see God's gospel the same way. This is to be expected with so many different versions of God's Truth out there in the world.
 
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BryanW92

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I think you (Gods4Life4Ever), BryanW92, and I should ignore each other's posts from this point forward. It is clear we don't see God's gospel the same way. This is to be expected with so many different versions of God's Truth out there in the world.

I do see the gospel the same way you do. I looked around my church and saw the same thing you see. Then I told myself that I must be holier than everyone else, as you do, because I was the only one who seemed to notice or even care.
 
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MystyRock

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To who?

To God? Probably not.
To the person who attends and doesn't join? Only rarely.
To the church they don't join? Yes, most certainly.

Joining a church is in some ways like a marriage, or maybe adoption would be a better analogy. To be part of a church is like being part of a family. That is one reason why it hurts so much when it goes bad. But imagine some one has become a part of the family in every way except to make it official, and when one proposes to make it official they say, "No, thank-you."

It doesn't matter how politely they say it. It doesn't matter how many good reasons they have for not joining. It still hurts. There is a sense of, wonder what's wrong with us? But the church can never tell you that.
Thanks, Grace. We start Confirmation classes next Sunday. UMC is quite different than my previous church experiences. We're getting to know the people and feel more comfortable.

Guess we need to decide if this is where we need to be - stay and commit?
 
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I think you (Gods4Life4Ever), BryanW92, and I should ignore each other's posts from this point forward. It is clear we don't see God's gospel the same way. This is to be expected with so many different versions of God's Truth out there in the world.

Do brothers and sisters in Christ "just ignore each other"?

I present to you that though your views and ours are similar, they are not the same.

I used to be very intolerant of people, and asked God to give me more love for my fellow humans. He did so, with a healthy dose of humility tagging along.

I have never been, and hope I am never at, the point of self-realizing holiness that you are at. I will take the humility that God has given me, for there but by the grace of God, go I. I do not desire the holiness that you state that you have. That kind of holiness is not the same as the holiness that John Wesley talked about in "A Plain Account of Christian Perfection" .

I am doing my M.Th. thesis on Holiness as taught by John Wesley. Your version is different that Wesley's.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Do brothers and sisters in Christ "just ignore each other"
I submit to you that the answer to this question is indeed YES. Sometimes we do. Sometimes we do because the human frailties that are present within each of us can become irritants to others who are our brothers or sisters in Christ, but with whom we have yet learned to live with in ways appropriate to representing the Gospel.
In speaking about the practice of Christian love to the Romans (most people only read 1 Corinthians 13, but we need to read Romans 12 as well), Paul wrote: "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone" (vs. 18, NIV) or "Do everything possible on your part to live in peace with everybody" (vs. 18, Good News).

Anyone who has been on this board very long, knows of the conflict(s) I have had with Gadfly. We differ on a number of things, the list does not need to be repeated here. But we have two things that we keep very much in common. We both love God made known to us in Jesus the Christ, and we love those who love God. Well, if we love those who love God that means we must, of necessity love each other. But you couldn't always tell it from our conversation. Because we also shared another couple of traits, we like to share our view and we are bulldog stubborn when we are trying to make a point, we created conflict by mauling each other over differences that we could see in each other's posts with which we could not agree.

Now, I don't believe that those differences have in any way changed. And yet, miracle of miracles, we are at peace. I suggest to you that has come about because we finally learned something that bulldogs don't. We learned to let go. To get to that point there was a time, indeed a long period of time, when we simply had to ignore each other. Why? Because ignoring was part of the "everything" that Christ depended on us doing in order to accomplish his goal, not of proving that we are right, but of living in peace with our brothers and sisters in the faith. And I have a feeling, that Wesley's Parish is richer, not poorer, for it.
 
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I submit to you that the answer to this question is indeed YES. Sometimes we do. Sometimes we do because the human frailties that are present within each of us can become irritants to others who are our brothers or sisters in Christ, but with whom we have yet learned to live with in ways appropriate to representing the Gospel.
In speaking about the practice of Christian love to the Romans (most people only read 1 Corinthians 13, but we need to read Romans 12 as well), Paul wrote: "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone" (vs. 18, NIV) or "Do everything possible on your part to live in peace with everybody" (vs. 18, Good News).

Anyone who has been on this board very long, knows of the conflict(s) I have had with Gadfly. We differ on a number of things, the list does not need to be repeated here. But we have two things that we keep very much in common. We both love God made known to us in Jesus the Christ, and we love those who love God. Well, if we love those who love God that means we must, of necessity love each other. But you couldn't always tell it from our conversation. Because we also shared another couple of traits, we like to share our view and we are bulldog stubborn when we are trying to make a point, we created conflict by mauling each other over differences that we could see in each other's posts with which we could not agree.

Now, I don't believe that those differences have in any way changed. And yet, miracle of miracles, we are at peace. I suggest to you that has come about because we finally learned something that bulldogs don't. We learned to let go. To get to that point there was a time, indeed a long period of time, when we simply had to ignore each other. Why? Because ignoring was part of the "everything" that Christ depended on us doing in order to accomplish his goal, not of proving that we are right, but of living in peace with our brothers and sisters in the faith. And I have a feeling, that Wesley's Parish is richer, not poorer, for it.

Thank you GraceSeeker. I guess I am too new to Wesley's Parish to know that background, as I have not seen you and Gadfly in those terms since I have come here. In fact, it is only recently that I have seen Gadfly posting here.

I do try to follow Paul's guidance to the Christians in Rome, of which you speak. I am, at times, not very perceptive about others. Therefore, I am sometimes at a loss to know what they mean by what they say on forums such as this forum.

Perhaps I am misreading arrogance as something else that I cannot fully identify.

On this forum, I read from some who are very humble and non-pretentious. I try to emulate those in whom I see Jesus living and functioning in their lives. I seek to have others see the wonderful, loving Jesus in my life and in my posts. I most assuredly fail at that endeavor.

I find no arrogance in Jesus from the Scriptures I read. When I percieve arrogance in one who says that they are holy, I have to wonder just how much of Jesus is actually showing through their witness to others.

Perhaps I do not show my loving desire very well to help those who believe that they are fully holier than those around them, yet have human arrogance showing in them not of the Jesus I have grown to know.

If I offend in my approach, I do desire to have forgiveness and seek to do better.
 
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Roger Baker

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...I was reading the blogpost in your earlier post - the writer advised if someone had been in a "difficult" church situation, they should take a break from all churches and religious groups. Take time to heal.

Do you believe this is sound advice or do we open ourselves up to too much isolation from God's people?
Of course, we have to take into account the person's needs, but as UMC clergy, I sometimes feel the need for a very brief period away from the congregation and time to experience worship outside the UMC umbrella. I think the same need applies to many.
 
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MystyRock

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Of course, we have to take into account the person's needs, but as UMC clergy, I sometimes feel the need for a very brief period away from the congregation and time to experience worship outside the UMC umbrella. I think the same need applies to many.
My previous experiences included a very legalistic church of another denomination. I hadn't even considered UMC as an option. However, due to some odd circumstances, my husband and I became friends with a part-time UMC pastor. I had been questioning what I really believed and talking to him has helped me.

Still working through these beliefs - I'm back to reading my Bible again. Although I'm reading verses I've heard many times over the years, they seem different somehow.
 
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SharonL

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Yes church is important - however the right one is really hard to find. We moved to a new area and have tried several churches (we live in a small town) - the churches were so dry that I would come home and cry - no spirit whatsoever. My husband and I have been married 54 years and never missed a Sunday with our children - but now we watch 2 spirit filled sermons on Sunday morning and have our Bible study. Instead of growing away from our faith - out faith has increased and we have a beautiful walk with our hand in the hand of Jesus and being led by the Holy Spirit, helping whereever we can, volunteering at the Hospital and we can still among our friends and offer help when we see it is needed.
 
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Ekklesia

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When Jesus spoke of "His Church" do we honestly believe that He meant this system on Sunday for 1 hour a week by a paid person with a title and authority over others? I just do not see this in scripture anywhere. I often wonder if a Pastor would still do all the things he does if there were no title, recognition, our pay! My question is this...

What would "Jesus Church" look like if we lived as he lived? If we all gave of all we have to one another, denying our own selves as commanded all throughout Jesus teachings.

Its easier to just do the 1 hour a week thing depending on the guy we pay to make our hearts leap. The problem is, we are to live as Jesus lived daily admonishing one another, and you can't do that 1 hour a week.

I have over the last few months started living life daily with other believers who feel the same way I do. We are having fellowship, breaking bread, and lifting one another up daily all week. It is a great topic worthy of discussion.
 
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Roger Baker

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A good post to read to remind us that our main Christian relationship is not between the pastor, and/or any other person in the church, but a vertical relationship with Christ alone.

I understand what you have quoted here. I would also like to say that the relationship with the church is also a responsibility. We are fortunate that in the USA we can chose our church. This isn't the case in North Korea or China (among others.) We can find a place to commit not only to a relationship with our God, but also to others who believe. This is a very important matter as well.

Remember all the apostolic stories of those who didn't engage in a relationship with others? ;)

Grace! -Rog
 
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Roger Baker

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When Jesus spoke of "His Church" do we honestly believe that He meant this system on Sunday for 1 hour a week by a paid person with a title and authority over others? I just do not see this in scripture anywhere. I often wonder if a Pastor would still do all the things he does if there were no title, recognition, our pay!

Lots of pastors work for minimal pay, or while using donations or savings to survive or a spouse's earnings. I have served several churches and have never received the full pay and allowances the UMC conference says I should receive. My wife supports me and we have lived well.

Just my example. Your results may vary. But there are certainly many UMC churches who cannot pay a pastor and whose pulpit is nonetheless filled with a trained, experienced pastor.

Grace! -Rog
 
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GraceSeeker

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I have over the last few months started living life daily with other believers who feel the same way I do. We are having fellowship, breaking bread, and lifting one another up daily all week. It is a great topic worthy of discussion.

Congratulations! You just created a brand new denomination all of your own. And if you have people there who others listen to as to the right way and the wrong way to organize and do the things you do, then you even have a type of priest.
 
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