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Does Jesus call the gentiles dogs?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by wallet_man, Sep 16, 2020 at 8:59 PM.

  1. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    Mark 7:26-29
    26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

    27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

    28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

    29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
     
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  2. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Maybe, but he also called us sheep, the same as the Jews:

    "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd." - John 10:16
     
  3. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    I was going to correct a post regarding this very topic. So surprised to see that someone set the record straight.

    The Gentiles were called dogs and were unclean to the Jews.

    Jews did not associate with Gentiles or marry them.
     
  4. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved Supporter

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    The Jews were the first called to be saved by Christ. At that time the gentiles were unsaved and doing many wicked things, thus they were called 'dogs'. But, when the gentiles were grafted onto the vine of Christianity, they were then 'sheep' as in followers of Christ--the good shepherd.
     
  5. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Only after the revelation of the Christ were the dogs promoted to sheep.
     
  6. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    From what I've read Jesus wasn't being as denigrating as the passage may seem. The word translated as "dog" in this passage (and in the corresponding passage in Matthew) is Strong's G2952, which means "little dog" or "puppy". It corresponds to their pets that actually did hang out under their tables and eat fallen crumbs, just as our pets do today.

    The other NT passages translated as "dog" such as "dogs returning to their vomit", "beware of the dogs", "don't give what is holy to the dogs", etc., uses a different word, Strong's G2965.

    So if it helps, it seems that Jesus was comparing us Gentiles to family pets, not wild animals.
     
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  7. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Yes, he did. He also called some other folks swine, in relation to where one should not casts their pearls.

    I think the more interesting question to this particular passage is, "Did Jesus learn something from the Syrophoenician woman?" He says, "One shouldn't." She replies, "Yes, but..." And then, Jesus seems to change his mind. Did she show him something he hadn't considered? That's become a somewhat popular take. I suppose someone could respond that, no, he was just testing her.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    In five passages. So not always.

    Matthew
    7:6
    Luke
    16:21
    Philippians
    3:2
    2 Peter
    2:22
    Revelation
    22:15
     
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Metaphor. Don't forget that at the time the other tribes of the House of Israel were seen as inferior to the Jews and referenced as Gentiles (anyone not of the in crowd). Kinda like the early institutionalised church calling everyone else heretics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 11:35 AM
  10. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Yup, he called Gentiles dogs. Thankfully God included us and Gentiles managed to with the blessings they received from God do more to further faith in God than the Jews did through their isolationism.
     
  11. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Trainee Supporter

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    How does this apply to the mixed multitude at Sinai; and what about the story of Ruth?
     
  12. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    That is patently false. גּוֹי has never meant "dog".
     
  13. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Yeshua was very familiar not just with the written but the oral Torah.

    Any kodashim that become trefah are not redeemed, since we do not redeem kodashim to feed it to dogs. (m.Temurah 6:5). This statement is quoted verbatim in several places in the Gemara outside of its direct discussion of this Mishnah (b.Pesachim 29a-b, b.Bechorot 15a-b), suggesting that this teaching has an axiomatic or proverbial use.

    If you have something that is fit to be offered but it develops a wound or a defect, what do you do with it? Yeshua says you don’t take it and throw it to the dogs because there are other areas of sanctification that it could be exchanged for. This is a concept that is found in the Mishnah, so it’s important to understand that this is Yeshua quoting directly from oral tradition, not from the written Torah. It’s the Mishnah that explains this concept.

    So a lot of people who dismiss the oral Torah they shoot themselves in the foot because right out of Yeshua’s mouth he verifies and supports the oral Torah when it comes to the kobanot system. However Yeshua used it’s (oral tradition's) broader implications as a form of exegesis.
     
  14. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Messianic/Church of God 7th Day Supporter

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    I'm not sure about mixed multitude but it's possible, maybe even likely, that Ruth was born a Jew. Otherwise, how could she be in David's and Yeshua's lineage without breaking Deuteronomy 23:3?

    I know this is off topic but something to think about.
     
  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    [STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
    Not so much as literal dogs but like those who pick through the scraps of others.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2020 at 5:54 PM
  16. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Who knows?

    But we do know that the Gentiles were unclean and looked upon as dogs.

    Read Deuteronomy 7.
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Doubt she had gentiles under the table ;o)
     
  18. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    ♪ Who let the gentiles out
    Woof, woof, ♪
     
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