Does Holy Spirit Convict Sin Once Saved

jaison jose

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I heard somewhere, that the Holy Spirit only convicts the world of sin and that once you are saved the Holy Spirit does not convict sin anymore... Where does this come from?

I am confused on this as I feel convicted of my sins more now that I am saved and I don't think or believe my sinful flesh would ever tell me to not sin or be more holy... Thoughts? (Please keep it nice no harsh debating) :scratch:




JOBJECTOR: I don’t see how the Catholic Church can teach that a priest can forgive sins. It’s against the Bible. The Psalmist, speaking to God, says in Psalm130:4, "But with you there is forgiveness." A man cannot forgive the sins of another person. The only sins a man can forgive are those against him directly. Jesus said we should forgive those who sin against us. But how can a priest, or any human being, forgive sins which are not against him directly. Only God can do that.

CATHOLIC: You’re absolutely right. Only God can forgive sins. In Mark 2:1–12 we find what you are saying in the story of the healing of the paralytic. When Jesus saw the paralytic, he said to him, "Your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5). The scribes gave the same objection that you raised—that is, that only God can forgive sins. They asked, "Who can forgive sins except God alone?" And they were right. But notice how Jesus changes this later in the story. He performs the miracle of healing precisely to show that "the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Mark 2:10). So what was once only in heaven is now on earth because Jesus has the authority to forgive.

OBJECTOR: Yes, but Jesus is God and therefore has the power to forgive. You see, that proves my point. Only Jesus can forgive sins because he is God. A human priest cannot.

CATHOLIC: So you agree that there was once a man on earth who could forgive sins. It was the one who was fully God and fully man. And I assume that if Jesus Christ were on earth again, forgiveness of sins would be on earth again.

OBJECTOR: Yes, but Jesus is now in heaven according to the Bible. So we can only find forgiveness in heaven with God—specifically with God’s Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus is our great high priest who intercedes for us with his Father, as it says in Hebrews 4:14 and 7:25.

CATHOLIC: I agree that Jesus can forgive our sins because he is our great high priest. But the Catholic faith says that Jesus’ priesthood was also given to men so that they could continue his earthly work of forgiving sins.

OBJECTOR: Where does the Bible say that?

CATHOLIC: In John 20:19–23. Let me read it: "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

OBJECTOR: That’s an interesting passage, but it doesn’t say anything about Jesus giving his priesthood to men. I didn’t hear him say, "I make you priests." And even if he did make them priests, he didn’t give them the power to forgive sins.

CATHOLIC: Then what do you think Jesus meant when he said in verse 23, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"? To me, that sounds like he is giving the apostles authority to forgive sins.

OBJECTOR: He is giving them the authority to proclaim the gospel, which has the forgiveness of sins in it. The power to forgive is something he kept for himself. If sinners believe the gospel, they will receive forgiveness.

CATHOLIC: You must have read John Calvin’s interpretation of John 20:19–23, because that is exactly what he says about Jesus’ words. As you know, John Calvin was the Protestant Reformer of Geneva, Switzerland, who broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1530s. In 1536 he published his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in which he identified himself clearly as a Protestant. He was convinced that the Catholic Church was corrupt. And one of its worst corruptions, according to Calvin, was the presumption of a priest forgiving sins. That power was something that Christ reserved exclusively for himself, Calvin said.

OBJECTOR: I’ve never read John Calvin’s writings but it sounds like he was a pretty good thinker. He is absolutely right in thinking that Christ was authorizing the proclamation of the gospel and not the forgiveness of sins.

CATHOLIC: Calvin was a very attentive interpreter of the Bible and paid close attention to the details of the text, but in this text I don’t think he paid enough attention. In verse 23 Jesus says, "You forgive" and "you retain," not "You proclaim forgiveness" or "You proclaim retention." It seems that Calvin couldn’t take verse 23 for what it really says because he was prejudiced against the Catholic doctrine.

OBJECTOR: But you don’t know that. It’s not a very charitable judgment to say that he was prejudiced against the Catholic faith.

CATHOLIC: You may be right, but I think I can safely infer from Calvin’s many writings that he hated Catholic teachings. Perhaps he thought he had good reasons because he had seen so many abuses of the sacrament of confession. Whatever his motivation may have been, it seems clear that he did not pay close enough attention to verse 23. On the other hand, consider the use of this text that the Catholic Church makes in its formula of absolution.

OBJECTOR: What is a formula of absolution?

CATHOLIC: It’s the words that a priest uses to confer or convey the forgiveness of Christ once a person has confessed his sins. This absolution is based directly on Jesus’ words in John 20:19–23. It says, "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sin, through the ministry of the Church. May God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen."

OBJECTOR: I suppose any Christian would find those words beautiful, but I still don’t see how they are in the Bible or specifically in John 20:19–23.

CATHOLIC: Consider this. The formula reminds us that reconciliation is the plan of the Father in heaven when it says, "God, the Father of mercies . . . has reconciled the world to himself." That is, the plan of salvation is not made up by the Church. The Church only proclaims what God has done. And further, this plan is accomplished "through the death and resurrection of his Son."

OBJECTOR: I agree. God is the only Savior who in and through Christ’s death and resurrection has brought salvation into the world. But what does that have to do with a priest forgiving sin?

CATHOLIC: Think with me further. The formula of absolution wishes peace on the sinner with the words, "May God give you pardon and peace." These words remind us of Jesus’ words in John 20:19 and 21, "Peace be with you." Jesus wished peace on his followers. He also conferred that peace on them by giving them the Holy Spirit. This is what it means in John 20: 22, "He breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’" The formula states this important role of the Holy Spirit when it says that God "sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sin." The Holy Spirit is the active agent of bringing the forgiveness of Christ to sinners.

OBJECTOR: Okay. I agree that the Holy Spirit plays an important role in applying the forgiveness of Christ to sinners, but again that action is something only God can do. I don’t see anywhere in John 20:19–23 where a man is given authority to forgive the way your formula of absolution says.

CATHOLIC: Notice how in verse 21 Jesus says, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." In other words, Jesus is giving his apostles the same authority that he received from his Father. Now what authority did Jesus receive from God the Father? We saw earlier, in Mark 2:10, that he had the authority to forgive sins. Jesus brought the power of forgiveness from heaven to earth. So now, in John 20:21, he is giving that same authority to his apostles. And he is explicit about what he is giving them, "Whoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven."

OBJECTOR: Ah ha. That’s where the Catholic Church makes its fatal mistake. God the Father gave Jesus that authority because he is God too. But a human priest is not God. Even the Catholic doesn’t say that a priest is God.

CATHOLIC: You’re right. A priest is not God, but the priest has the power to confer or convey the forgiveness of God—not by his own power but by the power that Christ conferred on his apostles that day recorded for us in John 20:19–23.

OBJECTOR: Yes, but didn’t your formula of absolution have the priest saying, "I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?" That sounds like it’s the priest who is doing the forgiving.

CATHOLIC: Yes, that’s what the formula says, but it says that because the priest is acting in the place of Christ. A priest’s authority to convey forgiveness does not come from himself. It comes from Christ. By the power of the Holy Spirit, the priest stands in the place of Christ to declare the sinner forgiven. That is why the formula of absolution uses the pronoun I. The I is Christ speaking through the human priest. If Jesus had not come to earth, there would be no forgiveness on earth, and if he had not conferred on the apostles this ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18), we would have no forgiveness today. But we can thank God that Christ did indeed come and that he passed on his authority to the Church to reconcile sinners to God.
 
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RDKirk

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If he had truly believed, God would have give him the new birth and he would have been sealed by the Holy Spirit. God gives us faith --- it's permanent.

We've already agreed to that. You've missed the additional point I made.
 
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mukk_in

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I heard somewhere, that the Holy Spirit only convicts the world of sin and that once you are saved the Holy Spirit does not convict sin anymore... Where does this come from?

I am confused on this as I feel convicted of my sins more now that I am saved and I don't think or believe my sinful flesh would ever tell me to not sin or be more holy... Thoughts? (Please keep it nice no harsh debating) :scratch:
Struggling with sin (Romans 7) actually begins after salvation and not before. The closer one draws to God the more one is conscious of his/her unworthiness in His Holiness (Isaiah realized that he had a dirty mouth when he entered God's Presence). Sanctification removes the dominance or control of sin in one's life, so that a saint doesn't have to sin. But a saint can always choose to sin voluntarily even after sanctification (the epistles, 1-2 John). The good news is that both the penitent sinner and penitent saint are forgiven (think of King David). Hope that helps :).
 
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People may believe they were saved, but if that person was really saved, he wouldn't walk away.

More specifically - is he "COULDN'T" walk away.

Part of becoming saved IS the person choosing to GIVE God "authority" and "power" over their life. So, no, they CAN NOT walk away, once they give God the authority to use His POWER to keep them.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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ViaCrucis

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I heard somewhere, that the Holy Spirit only convicts the world of sin and that once you are saved the Holy Spirit does not convict sin anymore... Where does this come from?

I am confused on this as I feel convicted of my sins more now that I am saved and I don't think or believe my sinful flesh would ever tell me to not sin or be more holy... Thoughts? (Please keep it nice no harsh debating) :scratch:

How can the Holy Spirit convict the unbelieving of sin when they don't have Him? It is only those who have the Holy Spirit who can be convicted of their sin.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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jaison jose

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More specifically - is he "COULDN'T" walk away.

Part of becoming saved IS the person choosing to GIVE God "authority" and "power" over their life. So, no, they CAN NOT walk away, once they give God the authority to use His POWER to keep them.

God Bless,
SBC
remember God has given us free will. we can sin and then you are away from Him but repenting and confessing we can come back because God always loves us.....its always like true love you love someone but you cannot compel them to be with you like prodigal son...but when the person comes back if your love is true you will forget the past and will again love them...
 
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jaison jose

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remember God has given us free will. we can sin and then you are away from Him but repenting and confessing we can come back because God always loves us.....its always like true love you love someone but you cannot compel them to be with you like prodigal son...but when the person comes back if your love is true you will forget the past and will again love them...
also i didn't mean one should sin...but one can ...and that does not mean after sinning too you are with God...
 
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SBC

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Thank you, you as well ♡ I always try to start a prayer with thanksgiving

Excellent -

[/QUOTE]and then I confess any known sin and ask the Holy Spirit to clean my heart and forgive me of any unintentional or unknown sins as well.[/QUOTE]

I confess any known sin
I confess any known sin[/QUOTE]


Here, I disagree. You may have trespasses against other men, to which God already knows, and is paying attention to see IF YOU address the other men you may have trespassed against. If you are confessing SINS to God - basically what you are saying to God is - what He forgave failed.

ask the Holy Spirit to clean my heart

He already has.
Point being, you are confessing and asking for something God has already accomplished.


Focus friend. Acknowledge what you have already received from God. Now is the time better spent in using His Power to overcome what YOU identify as your own human struggles.

That is what Paul was teaching about, using himself as the example - saying basically - oooooh rah - God has cleansed me - but yet I have to still be draped in this earthly flesh body, that I am fully aware wants to constantly fight against my spiritually quickened self.

The "solution" IS -
You have already decided your path -
The path has NO effect, to overcome the human dilemma, if you are simply standing on the path and NOT effecting the power.

The "solution" IS -
KEEP reading, learning, discovering - which is CALLED continuing to follow. <--- POSITIVE

The "solution" IS -
KEEP asking God for His understanding of the Scriptures you read and study - which is CALLED having Gods understanding < --- POSITIVE instead of trying to understand according to the logic of a mans MIND. <--- NEGATIVE

The "solution" IS -
to USE the power within you - ie Spirit of God - which is Supreme Power given you, above all other power. <---- POSITIVE

The "solution" IS -
To daily USE that POWER, of God, in the thoughts of your HEART, to "control", to "supersede" the "thoughts of your MIND" <--- POSITIVE
and gradually your MIND thoughts will become submissive to HEARTS thoughts <--- POSITIVE

BECAUSE "YOU" are the one who dictated, demanded, effected, YOUR own MIND to BE submissive to YOUR Heart.<--- POSITIVE

THAT is precisely the POWER afforded YOU, to change what YOU have control TO CHANGE. <--- POSITIVE

Rom 12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

On conversion - God changes OUR Hearts - "not our minds".

It is OUR JOB to make our MINDS submissive to our Hearts, which God changed to PURE, and feeds His Truth.

Point being GOD already did His part as promised He is faithful and would do.

WHEN we do our part, as we are SUPPOSED to know, is part of the deal, BEFORE we agreed to submit to God - (remember I said, to know before hand what one is committing to and seems to be a failed teaching)

Our part IS precisely making our Mind's thoughts submissive to our Heart's thoughts, that are Gods thoughts, being give us.

And by us doing what we agreed to; the result is....

Rom 12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

To whom are we "proving" ? And IF we are not doing this.... To whom are we proving what is NOT good, acceptable and perfect according to God?

Not being critical - but am trying to get you to toggle that light switch from negative to positive :)

God Bless,
SBC
 
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RDKirk

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Struggling with sin (Romans 7) actually begins after salvation and not before. The closer one draws to God the more one is conscious of his/her unworthiness in His Holiness (Isaiah realized that he had a dirty mouth when he entered God's Presence). Sanctification removes the dominance or control of sin in one's life, so that a saint doesn't have to sin. But a saint can always choose to sin voluntarily even after sanctification (the epistles, 1-2 John). The good news is that both the penitent sinner and penitent saint are forgiven (think of King David). Hope that helps :).

Before salvation, the sinner is in obedience to his master--"sin" is, for him, obedience (Romans 6).

However, that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is not working conviction upon him. Jesus asserted that a spiritual enablement occurs before salvation.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him

We must remember that Jesus knows His sheep even before He calls them, and they respond to His voice--which means there is something already in them that knows their Master's voice.

It's not so much that they are struggling with sin as though they have an awareness of sin, as much as the Holy Spirit creating a discomfiture within them from a lack of connection to Him.
 
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lamb7

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Excellent -
and then I confess any known sin and ask the Holy Spirit to clean my heart and forgive me of any unintentional or unknown sins as well.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
No not critical at all, good info lots to chew on. Thank you.
 
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lamb7

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Before salvation, the sinner is in obedience to his master--"sin" is, for him, obedience (Romans 6).

However, that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is not working conviction upon him. Jesus asserted that a spiritual enablement occurs before salvation.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him

We must remember that Jesus knows His sheep even before He calls them, and they respond to His voice--which means there is something already in them that knows their Master's voice.

It's not so much that they are struggling with sin as though they have an awareness of sin, as much as the Holy Spirit creating a discomfiture within them from a lack of connection to Him.

I love this:
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.

I look and this and thank God he drew me.
 
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lamb7

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Awesome - You sound like you have a good stride going in the right direction.
May you and yours be plentifully blessed.

God Bless,
SBC


Thank you, you as well. Yes I think so too... took a bit to really understand but God shows me examples like the tomato plant and bearing fruit. I really became obsessed with the Word around 2014. It's interesting before I was saved I said to myself before I die I want to read the entire Bible.
 
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remember God has given us free will.

He sure did. And It was MY WILL to give God control over MY LIFE.

we can sin

Perhaps YOU can, not we, YOU.

I GAVE control of MY LIFE to God.
And Because I made that choice, My faithful God dwells within me.
And Because I made that choice, His POWER within me will KEEP me from SIN.

and then you are away from Him

Nope! Not possible. My God is Faithful and ALWAYS with me.

but repenting and confessing we can come back

Nope! Already repented, already confessed, already been forgiven and restored and quickened, and already gave control of my life TO GOD, and He does not fail.

because God always loves us

God loves ALL of His creations, whether or not they have submitted to Him.

.....its always like true love you love someone but you cannot compel them to be with you like prodigal son...

Well now you are talking about mankind's love - which has nothing to do with Gods Love.

but when the person comes back if your love is true you will forget the past and will again love them...

Man forgiving man, was not the issue. That has already been established. Men forgive men of an issue between me. Men do not forgive SIN. Only God forgives Sin.


God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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and then I confess any known sin and ask the Holy Spirit to clean my heart and forgive me of any unintentional or unknown sins as well.
[/QUOTE]
No not critical at all, good info lots to chew on. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

For a fairly young Christian you appear determined with a purpose to be quick to achieve - by hearing and making sure what you hear IS according to Scripture - all to a great benefit to you and yours. Applause!

God Bless,
SBC
 
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lamb7

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No not critical at all, good info lots to chew on. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

For a fairly young Christian you appear determined with a purpose to be quick to achieve - by hearing and making sure what you hear IS according to Scripture - all to a great benefit to you and yours. Applause!

God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]

Thank you that is encouraging. I do want to test all things with scripture and weed out man based ideas. I want to be like the bereans :)
 
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remember God has given us free will. we can sin and then you are away from Him but repenting and confessing we can come back because God always loves us.....its always like true love you love someone but you cannot compel them to be with you like prodigal son...but when the person comes back if your love is true you will forget the past and will again love them...

True love like faith doesn't disinegrate. That doesn't make sense. If your Shepherd is Jesus, will He abandon you when you've wandered?

:scratch:
 
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jaison jose

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True love like faith doesn't disinegrate. That doesn't make sense. If your Shepherd is Jesus, will He abandon you when you've wandered?

:scratch:
he will not abandon us but due to our sins we will leave Him like prodigal son...and Jesus cannot perform miracle unless someone drives away a stone between us like raising lazarus i.e stone of sin
 
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jaison jose

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He sure did. And It was MY WILL to give God control over MY LIFE.



Perhaps YOU can, not we, YOU.

I GAVE control of MY LIFE to God.
And Because I made that choice, My faithful God dwells within me.
And Because I made that choice, His POWER within me will KEEP me from SIN.



Nope! Not possible. My God is Faithful and ALWAYS with me.



Nope! Already repented, already confessed, already been forgiven and restored and quickened, and already gave control of my life TO GOD, and He does not fail.



God loves ALL of His creations, whether or not they have submitted to Him.



Well now you are talking about mankind's love - which has nothing to do with Gods Love.



Man forgiving man, was not the issue. That has already been established. Men forgive men of an issue between me. Men do not forgive SIN. Only God forgives Sin.


God Bless,
SBC
it sounds like you do sin but still saved not at all....sin creates distance between us and God....and by "we" i mean each one of us....if Jesus compares a father's love i.e prodigal son's parable to God the Father then How much more God loves us....of course He's faithful but we aren't well if we were then we will never sin because to err is to human but by every deed even a bit of jealous is sin..but not mortal sin because we are not perfect but trying to be...as Jesus says to people after healing them don't sin again ...which means that sin can again make them go back...
 
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SBC

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also i didn't mean one should sin...but one can ...and that does not mean after sinning too you are with God...

After being forgiven BY God, and saved and born again THAT person is now accounted as "born of God" and NO, they can NOT SIN AGAIN.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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RDKirk

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After being forgiven BY God, and saved and born again THAT person is now accounted as "born of God" and NO, they can NOT SIN AGAIN.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC

I don't believe that means he is not capable of sinning, I believe it means he is not permitted to sin.

"Dad, can I skip school today?"
"No, son, you cannot skip school today."
 
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