• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Does Hell really mean eternal torment after death?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by franklin, Aug 26, 2002.

  1. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    What does the Bible really teach about Hell?
    Does the Bible teach the idea commonly held concerning hell? Does the hell of the Bible denote a place of burning torment, a condition of suffering without end, which begins at death? What is the hell of the Bible? The only way to arrive at the correct answer is to trace the words translated ‘hell’ from the beginning to the end of the Bible, and by their connections ascertain exactly what the divine Word teaches on this important subject.

    Some more questions to ponder on the subject of Hell:

    What is the meaning of the word "hell" in the Old Testament and the New Testament?

    Where will the wicked be punished?

    Where is Hell located?

    How can men and woman live in fire?

    Does "forever" always mean never ending?

    Aren't those who do not hear or accept the Gospel doomed by God?

    Is it right for us to judge men and woman whether they are fit for heaven or hell?

    Is there conclusive or explicit proof in scripture that says the wicked have a consciousness after death?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Depends what you mean by Torment.  If you mean suffering then no, if you mean imprisonment in death then yes.
     
  3. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Wait, wait, wait...so now you are rewriting the teachings about Hell? Tell us what you think Hell really is...
     
  4. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    No, no, no, I'm not re-writhing anything souljah!  So, wait, wait, wait, let's see from the Greek and Hebrew how the word Hell was translated! This should answer the first question in my thread:  

    What is the meaning of the word "hell" in the Old Testament and the New Testament?

    In the Old Testament, it is translated from one word, Sheol. In the New Testament, "hell" is translated from three words, tartaroo, Hades, and Gehenna. It does not teach a place of conscious souls. The Greek Septuagint, which our Lord used when he read or quoted from the Old Testament, gives Hades as the exact equivalent of the Hebrew Sheol, and when the Savior, or his apostles, used the word, they meant the same as is meant in the Old Testament. Thus, the New Testament usage agrees exactly with the Old Testament. Literally, Hades means "death" or the "grave"; and figuratively, it means "destruction".   
     
  5. stillsmallvoice

    stillsmallvoice The Narn rule!

    +173
    Judaism
    Married
    Hi all!

    Well, one of my rabbis way back in the USA once said that while we certainly believe in reward & punishment in the world-to-come, the punishment part is not of the Dante-esque variety. My rabbi said that in the world-to-come, our "eyes are opened" and we are made to see & appreciate how our pettiness, our jealousies, our grudges, our meanspiritedness, etc. embittered the lives of others and made them miserable. This, he said, is a far more awful punishment than we can even imagine.

    Be well!

    ssv :wave:
     
  6. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

    459
    +7
    Christian
    The Hebrew word for grave is ‘sheol’. The Greek word for grave is ‘hades’. Old Testament writers, like Moses, Job, David, Solomon, and Isaiah, recorded the fact that dead men are buried in ‘sheol’. New Testament writers, like Matthew, Luke, Paul, and John, taught that the dead are buried in ‘hades’.

    Looking at Acts 2:27-31 and Psalm 16:10, you can see that ‘sheol’ and ‘hades’ have the same meaning – the grave. Acts 2:27 is a direct quote of Psalm 16:10. In Psalms the word ‘hell’ is translated from the Hebrew word ‘sheol’, and in Acts the word ‘hell’ is translated from the Greek wore ‘hades’. This helps to prove that the two words mean the same thing.

    Hell is an English word derived from the Anglo-Saxon word “helan”, which means “to cover” or “to hide out of sight”.
     
  7. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    So, who here believes that Hell is not eternal punishment, but instead, is destruction?
     
  8. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Where will the wicked be punished?

    Proverbs 11:31, "Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner."
    The Scripture shows that both the righteous and the wicked are to be recompensed in the same place.


    Isaiah 24:21, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth."
    Here is a plain statement that punishment is to be administered "upon the earth" at some time.
     
  9. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
     
  10. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Where is Hell located?

    Since "hell" means "the grave," scripture should describe hell as it would the grave. Hell is described as being in the earth, and in the foundation of the mountains - the foundations being under the earth (Deuteronomy 32:22). Hell is deep - underground (Job 11:8). The direction of hell is down (Psalms 55:15, Ezekiel 32:21,27). Hell is low (Psalms 86:13). Hell is beneath us (Proverbs 15:24, Isaiah 14:9). Hell is a pit (Isaiah 14:15, Ezekiel 31:16). We must dig into hell (Amos 9:2). Hell (the grave) follows death (Revelation 6:8).

    Lightbearer, thanks for your post.... Gehenna is the only one of those words translated as "hell" in the Bible, that has any idea of fire or torment resident in it. Look at Matthew 5:22,29-30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33 and Mark 9:43,45,47. It is apparent from these texts that the whole physical body is cast into Hell, and not just the soul. Gehenna is also used in Luke 12:5 and James 3:6. As I mentioned in post #4, referring to "Hades" the scripture doen't teach it as a place of conscious souls. Note this quote from, J.W. Hanson's, Bible Threatenings Explained: "Gehenna was a well-known valley, near Jerusalem, in which the Jews in their idolatrous days had sacrificed their children to the idol Moloch, in consequence of which it was condemned to receive the offal and refuse and sewage of the city, and into which the bodies of malefactors were cast and where to destroy the odor and pestilential influences, continual fires were kept burning. Here fire, smoke, worms bred by the corruption, and other repulsive features, rendered the place a horrible one, in the eyes of the Jews. It was a locality with which they were as well acquainted. But in process of time Gehenna came to be an emblem of the consequences of sin, and to be employed figuratively by the Jews, to denote those consequences. But always in this world. The Jews never used it to mean torment after death, until long after Christ. The word had not the meaning of post-mortem torment when our Savior used it."

    Every Bible reference using the word "hell" is addressed to this world. It was also employed in the time of Christ as a symbol of moral corruption and wickedness; but more especially as a figure of the terrible judgment of God on the rebellious and sinful nation of the Jews. It was a place fit only for waste. Again, LB, thanks for your replies......
     
  11. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Instead of getting caught up in terms referring to Hell, I ask this, who believes that sinners will be tormented for eternity?
     
  12. Hojo Hominygrits

    Hojo Hominygrits Now with 25% more hominy!

    213
    +0
    Non-Denom
    I do. In the context that it's not sinners that go to hell, but people who reject Christ. We're all sinners. Even Christians still suffer from the curse of sin.

    If Hell isn't permanent eternal seperation from God, then why did Christ have to be sacraficed for the sin of the world? What was the point?

    We're all going to go to heaven eventually anyway if Hell isn't eternal right? Seems to me that under that train of thought, what Christ did on the cross becomes meaningless.
     
  13. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Correct, I mis-spoke.  We are all sinners, of course.

     
     
  14. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    souljah, That is the main purpose of this thread that I started and that is, Does Hell really mean eternal torment after death?  The purpose of this thread is not so much weather someone believes that the wicked will be tormented in a place called hell, it's main purpose is to explore the scripture to see if that is what the Bible truely teaches.  I have posted a number of questions in my thread for you to follow and so far it sounds like you are beginning to take this thread in the direction you want it to go.  If that is what you are trying to accomplish, may I suggest that you start your own thread in another forum.  Please try to stay on the topic just like some of the others have demonstrated such as Lightbearer, drmmjr and stillsmallvoice. Your cooporation will be greatly appreciated.

    thank you

    FR
     
  15. NurseMK

    NurseMK New Member

    40
    +0
    You better believe there's a hell.  I'm not going to roast in it.

    Praise Jesus!!!!

     
     
  16. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Ok, sorry.
     
  17. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

    459
    +7
    Christian
    If you'll read some of the posts prior, you'll see what the Bible says hell is. Besides, if hell is someplace that those who don't accept Jesus are put into for eternity, then why is hell and death cast into the lake of fire (Rev. ) and destroyed.
     
  18. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment. It seems hell is a place of conscience torment. But hell isn't the end. rev.20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Fire is a sigh of judgement. The lake of fire is the final judgement, which is eternal seperation from God. Conscience seperation.
     
  19. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Hi dr, Hades is also used in Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 10:23, and Revelation 1:18; 6:8. In Revelation 20:13-14, if one thinks of "hell" as death represented by the grave, it makes sense for hell to be cast into the lake of fire. After all, if "hell" itself is really a lake of fire, how can it be thrown into itself? This does not make any sense. Notice in 1 Corinthians 15:26 that death will be destroyed. What is represented by death? The grave! As in my previous posts, the Bible does not teach that hell (the grave) is a place of conscious souls.  The usual "hellfire" messages from the pulpits makes for good sounding preaching, however, it's far from biblical!  Scareing people into making a decision for salvation is not the methods Christ used as is so clear in scripture.

    Thanks for your input and comments....

    FR

     

     
     
  20. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Read the book of Enoch; there is a great in-depth description of heaven
    (levels one through ten):

    *And those two men led me up on to the Northern side, and showed me there a very terrible place, and there were all manner of tortures in that place: cruel darkness and unilluminated gloom, and there is no light there, but murky fire constantly flaming aloft, and there is a fiery river coming forth, and that whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said:

    Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place.

    And those men said to me: This place O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practice sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashon, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, caluminies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich, injuring them for other men's goods; who being able to satisfy the empty, amde the hungering to die; being able to clothe, stripped the naked; and who knew not their creator, and bowed to the souless and lifeless gods, who cannot see or hear, vain gods, who also built hewn images and bow down to unclean handiwork, for all these is prepared this place among these, for eternal inheritance.

    The book of secrets of Enoch Chapter 10

    Wildfire
     
Loading...