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Does going against John Calvin mean going against God?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by MMXX, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    In this video John MacArthur reads objections to Calvinism's doctrine of predestination, and says the comments go against the sovereignty of God. It sounded more to me that the comments went against John Cavin's doctrine. Or should both considered one and the same?

     
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  2. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

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    Calvinism is secret Universalism.
    P1) God Loves All and desires all to be saved
    P2) God Isn't halfway
    P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others
    P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved
    P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially.
    Conclusion: Calvinism is Universalism because God loves all creation and he isn't partially and he can give his unconditional grace to all creation because he loves all his creation equally.
    So No nobody disagrees with the sovereignty of God, we disagree with John Calvin's core doctrine. Sorry to say but John Calvinism soft determinism fails according to my premises and conclusions, any rebuttals would be fallacious because P1 and P3 goes together do you agree?
     
  3. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    I was predestined to oppose John Calvin!
     
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  4. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Heretic :p
     
  5. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

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    Amen
     
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  6. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    Oh, I was also predestined to have free will
     
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  7. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 Pax et bonum! CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    John Calvin was born in 1509 AD.
    Prior to his birth, Christianity had already existed for over one and a half millennia.
     
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  8. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Mac Arthur is saying that Calvin teaches the sovereignty of God which is presented in the Scriptures, therefore, objection to Calvin's teaching would be going against the sovereignty of God.
     
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  9. Paul4JC

    Paul4JC It is for freedom that Christ has set us free

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    Calvinism worked.......in Geneva......by force and beatings.
     
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  10. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    To quote the Prince of Preachers:

    If anyone should ask me what I mean by a Calvinist, I should reply, “He is one who says, Salvation is of the Lord.” I cannot find in Scripture any other doctrine than this. It is the essence of the Bible. “He only is my rock and my salvation.”

    Tell me anything contrary to this truth, and it will be a heresy; tell me a heresy, and I shall find its essence here, that it has departed from this great, this fundamental, this rock-truth, “God is my rock and my salvation.” What is the heresy of Rome, but the addition of something to the perfect merits of Jesus Christ—the bringing in of the works of the flesh, to assist in our justification? And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here.

    I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.

    I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.

    (Charles Spurgeon, A Defense of Calvinism)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  11. Silverback

    Silverback Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Calvanist, however, everyone of his doctrinal points can be shown in scripture...I just think Lutherans are a bit more balanced.

    Regardless, we are all saved by Gods grace for Christ sake, through faith, when we repent, believe in, and trust his promises to save us.

    Additionally, we should do our best to sincerely, and honestly live our faith.

    Amen!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  12. Silverback

    Silverback Well-Known Member

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    Same process for Lutherans, Anglicans, and Moravians, and the rest including Roman Catholics.

    Different locations though
     
  13. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Worked in America for the The First Great Awakening
     
  14. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    It would appear that both Calvin and Spurgeon contradict the words of Jesus, Himself. e.g. Matthew 25:46, Matthew 25:41,Mark 9:43-48, Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50 etc.
     
  15. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    Our denomination is Calvinist, but we never consider John Calvin's doctrine infallible. Certainly, I completely disagree with many of his actions in Geneva. However, as much as his doctrines agree with the Bible, we definitely agree that the Bible teaches God's sovereignty. I suggest that you start with the Scriptures and then examine the words of people in that light.
     
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  16. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day, Der Alte

    It may appear like that to you at first glance, but I would refer you to their work on those passages you posted.

    BTW they do not call Spurgeon the prince of preachers for nothing.

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  17. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Or only Calvins definition of God sovereignty.
     
  18. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

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    Of course it can is why we explain the verses they present secondly, believing Reform doctrine has nothing to do with Lutherans because Lutherans can be Calvinist.
     
  19. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

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    I agree
     
  20. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    But teaching the sovereignty of God wasn't exclusive to Calvin. All of the major theologians of the reformation taught the sovereignty of God. Jacobus Arminius taught the sovereignty of God. However Arminianism and Calvinism are opposing theologies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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