Does Gods plan for our lives ever include sin?

Neostarwcc

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This is a serious question although the answer sounds like a "duh! Of course not!" But let me explain If it wasnt for sin I never would have met my wife back in 2014 (curiously 3-4 months after I had accepted Christ). I never would have made so many friendships including Christian ones. I literally have over 20 active online friends that I talk to regularly and I continue to meet new friends each day. Thanks to God I will NEVER be alone EVER again!

God used sin to help me forgive my dad who used me as his punching and verbal abusing punching bag for over 95% of my life. That sin also eventually lead me to Christ.

So why can't Gods ultimate plan for my life Include sinning against him? If hes included sin into all of my hopes, dreams, hobbies, and ambitions? It is literally impossible for me to STOP living in sin without completely rejecting every part of my life that makes me happy and becoming a robot. Sin mind you that God gave to me!

Nobody gave it to me but God. God simply created me this way. So why cant Gods plan for our lives include sin? Especially people like me who know nothing else? It's literally eaten me from the inside and is ALL around my core being.

You might say if God gave these talents to me than they cant be sins. But, they are.
 
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God does not commission sin, but He makes use of it to further His big picture in the lives of His people.

When Joseph was finally reunited with his brothers (who sold him into slavery), he said,

"But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive." Genesis 50:20 NKJV
 
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Neostarwcc

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I think you are confusing God using sin for good with God giving the sin. God doesn't cause sin. He tempts no one to sin. But he will use any thing in life for the good of those who love him.


So there is a way to sin and yet still be good?
 
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bèlla

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The Lord has never encouraged me to sin and has repeatedly warned me against behaviors that will lead to sin and other complications if I indulge them.

He works through my poor choices and weaknesses to bring His will into manifestation. The greater goal is my sanctification and a deeper union.
 
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Rescued One

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So there is a way to sin and yet still be good?

Mark 10
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

We aren't good. That's why we need to have faith in the blood of Christ. If we are given that faith, God will work in us to do His will. To sin is to rebel against God.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
 
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"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [set apart or sanctified] and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work." 2 Timothy 2:20-21 NKJV
 
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I think you are confusing God using sin for good with God giving the sin. God doesn't cause sin. He tempts no one to sin. But he will use any thing in life for the good of those who love him.

Exactly this.
 
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devin553344

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So there is a way to sin and yet still be good?

It's good you're asking. It's probably normal to be confused about this at some point in your Christian growth. I would quote Psalms 5:4 "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee."

That verse and I'm sure there are others tells us the nature of God. Also James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". If God said you could sin and be good then he would be tempting you.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So there is a way to sin and yet still be good?

No. He that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).
He that does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
All who do evil hate the light (John 3:20).

Basic morality should tell a person that doing bad makes one the villain of the story, and doing good makes one the hero.
 
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Job3315

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This is a serious question although the answer sounds like a "duh! Of course not!" But let me explain If it wasnt for sin I never would have met my wife back in 2014 (curiously 3-4 months after I had accepted Christ). I never would have made so many friendships including Christian ones. I literally have over 20 active online friends that I talk to regularly and I continue to meet new friends each day. Thanks to God I will NEVER be alone EVER again!

God used sin to help me forgive my dad who used me as his punching and verbal abusing punching bag for over 95% of my life. That sin also eventually lead me to Christ.

So why can't Gods ultimate plan for my life Include sinning against him? If hes included sin into all of my hopes, dreams, hobbies, and ambitions? It is literally impossible for me to STOP living in sin without completely rejecting every part of my life that makes me happy and becoming a robot. Sin mind you that God gave to me!

Nobody gave it to me but God. God simply created me this way. So why cant Gods plan for our lives include sin? Especially people like me who know nothing else? It's literally eaten me from the inside and is ALL around my core being.

You might say if God gave these talents to me than they cant be sins. But, they are.
Do you ever wonder how your life would have been if you had known God before you did?

How did you come to Christ? I figure it was because you had the seed planted and then it grew. So an inception happened, but when you were a certain age it made sense to you and you believed. God can't make us believe for ourselves, we have to believe ourselves. What if God had been trying to make you believe but you kept making sinful decisions? What if you were going to meet your wife but in others, maybe better, circumstances?

We tend to think that just because something happened a certain way, then it was God's way, instead of realizing He's been calling us since we were born.

Also, what talent is a sin?
 
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Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
 
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Neostarwcc

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He is a Calvinist. And he is right that sin doesn't surprise God, but not that it is his plan... God does not will your sinning.

Actually he's an American Reformed Baptist. Although some of his views could be considered Calvanistic like his belief in Perseverance of the Saints. But then again, many Protestants believe in Perseverance of the Saints not just Piper (myself included) that doesn't make them/me a Calvinist since to be a Calvanist you have to believe in all of T.U.L.I.P. including the doctrine of Election and Predestiantation.


Most of us who believe in Preservation of the Saints don't believe in the doctrine of Election or Predestination. We do however, believe that those who have a true faith would endure to the end as the power of God keeps them. Peter also says this in 1 Peter 1:5 and John says it in 1 John 2:19.


Like say for example, God can tell the difference between a truly repentant heart who is willing to go "all in" for Christ and the difference between somebody coming to Jesus just to "see what it's like." Those who end up falling away, fall away because the have no root and they don't have the Holy Spirit living inside of them (Mark 4:16-17) . If they did have the Holy Spirit living inside of them they would have remained in the faith (1 John 2:19).

Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be a thread talking about Piper or some of Protestant theology so I've gone WAY off topic :blush:. I just figured I'd comment.
 
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renniks

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Actually he's an American Reformed Baptist. Although some of his views could be considered Calvanistic like his belief in Perseverance of the Saints. But then again, many Protestants believe in Perseverance of the Saints not just Piper (myself included) that doesn't make them/me a Calvinist since to be a Calvanist you have to believe in all of T.U.L.I.P. including the doctrine of Election and Predestiantation.
He's a five point Calvinist.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Do you ever wonder how your life would have been if you had known God before you did?

How did you come to Christ? I figure it was because you had the seed planted and then it grew. So an inception happened, but when you were a certain age it made sense to you and you believed. God can't make us believe for ourselves, we have to believe ourselves. What if God had been trying to make you believe but you kept making sinful decisions? What if you were going to meet your wife but in others, maybe better, circumstances?

We tend to think that just because something happened a certain way, then it was God's way, instead of realizing He's been calling us since we were born.

Also, what talent is a sin?


I can give a brief overview of my life, sure. I grew up as a kid semi believing in God, I was raised in a Catholic family but I never really completely shared my mother's faith. Nor did my sister. Afaik she's still agnostic. Anyway, my sister and I left Sunday school at a very young age (I think we were both around 10 when we left). I wanted to leave Sunday school so that I could spend more time playing video games (Not the greatest thing to do but God has always placed into my heart the love/talent of video games.) and my sister left because she didn't see the point in it as she didn't believe at all. Church was long and boring to us kids with no real point to it at all.

Anyway, after I left Sunday school I still occasionally prayed to God despite not really completely believing in God. Especially when my dog died when I was 16 (I had him literally my whole life. My mom got him when I was a few months old) and yes, I would ask God to bring on messages to my dead dog. Probably not the best thing to do and my dog probably never got any of my messages, lol. I completely stopped believing in God at the age of around 20 because of comedian George Carlin and several of his Atheistic points about the existence of God. I was an atheist for about seven years. During those seven years I did many, many, bad things much of which I will not confess here but God knows each and every horrible thing that I did.

Eventually over the course of time as my soul became more and more corrupted with sin I came to Christ in November of 2013 at the age of 27 mostly because I couldn't stand living in sin anymore. Exactly why I converted from Atheism (Which I was completely content with and thought was the "right" move) to Christianity remains a mystery to me to this day. I just say that I didn't choose God but God chose me. But what I do remember about my conversion was that I started to become more and more interested in the afterlife which as an Athiest I mostly rejected. But over the course of time reading several articles on the various opinions of the afterlife I came to a few articles on Christianity. One was an apparent "revelation" from a woman who apparently prayed to Jesus so much that Jesus gained favor with her and took her to hell and showed her what it was like. Apparently she saw a 80 year old woman who was rich during her life and received many pleasures in her life but had now been in hell for over 100 years. She asked Christ when her punishment would be over and he apparently said "never." Idk... it was just a weird website. Oh and all the people there were skeletons *eyeroll*. The bible says that people in hell have actual physical bodies so ofc this particular woman was full of it. Oh, apparently at the end of the vision Christ told her to write a book about it.

But I believed it at the time and it obviously scared the pants off of me (But, honestly this woman probably just wanted to sell copies of her book. Had Christ really told her to write a book I highly doubt she'd charge almost $40 for it and it'd be available for free to get the message out) so that's how Christ got implanted into my brain.

My mom eventually took me to her Catholic Priest and I asked him various questions about God and Christ and he told me some REALLY bad stuff to believe in. Like, how to be saved we don't need to accept Christ all we have to do is ask Christ for forgiveness and he will forgive us because he is a "loving God" (Not true at all had this "priest" picked up a bible in his life he would have seen that this wasn't the case),. That our sins basically don't matter because God will forgive us after we die anyway... just stuff like that. Anyway what the priest said satisfied me for about a week. Until I became more and more uneasy. I found myself googling Christianity again, found a prayer on how to accept Christ, Weighed my options and decided to go "all in" I repented to Christ like you wouldn't believe and I talked to him for what seemed like an eternity although it probably was 3-4 hours. I told him everything. Got on my hands and knees told him I accepted him and begged him to please forgive me and save me and to help me leave my old life of sin behind. Ever since then I've seen multiple evidences of the Holy Spirit being within me up to and including actually witnessing myself receive the Holy Spirit the very night I converted. Over the years I've grown to completely stop doing various sins like Masturbation and inappropriate contentography (I used to be mega addicted to them but I've been completely clean for about a year now) belief in the deity of Christ and belief in the Trinity (As some of you might remember when I first came to CF up until about 2 years ago I didn't believe in either of these things. I literally just woke up one day believing), A complete and total transformation of my life no longer do I commit many of the sins that I commited as an atheist or throughout my life. Just lots of good stuff. There has been MANY fruits of the spirit in the last six years I've been a Christian.

I always felt like God promised me that day to leave my life of sin and he's kept most of that promise. Although I still play video games, spend lots of money on computers, and enjoy building computers ..etc and I believe that God's plan must evolve around video games and computers because those literally, are the only talents that he's given me during my life. Plus, if he does enjoy watching me practicing my gifts well... my gifts have ALWAYS been video games and computers since I was less than a year old. My gift in computers wasn't discovered until I was about six years old because computers hadn't come out yet but yeah, very young age.

Oh yeah, I've also noticed over the course of the last six years that I don't spend 18+ (sometimes 48+ during my youth) hours a day playing video games and on computers anymore. I spend at max 6 hours a day playing video games now. So God has reduced my gaming time. So if playing the video games that I play are a sin than, why hasn't God removed them from my life like he removed literally everything else? It's that or sometimes his plans include sin.

But yeah, I met my wife because of sin. I didn't really explain before because I was embarrassed but I can explain. There was a time when both my wife and I thought we were asexual so we met each other on a message board called AVEN which is a message board that promotes virtually everything from homosexual equality, to transgender equality, to cisgendered equality, to satanism... etc. But the main thing they promoted was asexuality. Which of course, is against what God originally designed humans to be which makes it obviously, a sin. But if it wasn't for that website my wife and I wouldn't have known that we existed because she played completely different games than I did, lived in Massachusetts and


What I as a fresh Christian was even doing on a website like that, idk. But I'm glad I did because I met many friends there, was able to preach the gospel there before I got perm banned for my Christian beliefs (Despite them promoting equality for literally everything else), and I met my soul mate there. I will always thank that website because if it wasn't for it, I wouldn't have met some friends or met my soul mate there. So God used sin for good in that case in my life.

Oops that wasn't in any way, shape, or form brief :blush:. Now I'm late and the wife has been calling me for almost 20 minutes now. Lol See you later.
 
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