Does God want us to be happy?

[Caedmon]

There's no meaning to suffering. It simply is. You can figure out ways to mitigate it and not be victimized by it, maybe find some way to make the experience useful, but that ain't easy. I don't believe God would use it to help anyone or make them prove their devotion to him.

 

[princess_ballet]

Maybe for me, it comes down more to love. And how I perceive what that means and how you would treat someone you love.

Jesus comes down here and takes on all the sin of the world FOR US. Yet, in my understanding, God's "plan" is to let you suffer and be miserable and too bad for you. Just don't sin. And be happy that you aren't sinning.

And I also have this weird thing where I don't equate Jesus with God. Obviously, I believe in the trinity, but Jesus has a different reputation/character than God does to me. Two distinct figures.

 

[Fantine]

The Baltimore Catechism, that Cliff Notes of Theology, says God wants us to be happy, so if you put much stock in one sentence answers He obviously does.

Why did God make me?

God made me to know Him, love Him, and serve Him and to be happy with Him forever in heaven.

I learned that in third grade or so.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Hi. I need some input from fellow Catholics that, hopefully, understand theology a bit better than I do.

This is something I've been struggling with lately and I can't seem to find the right doctrine/theology/whatever to figure this out.

I mean, something about the statement "God doesn't care if you're happy" just seems fundamentally flawed.

But we hear things that aren't true all the time. ("God's timing is perfect.")

I know that Jesus says God provides for the birds, and they're just birds, so obviously he'll care about us (rough translation). But does that just mean basic necessities?

Look at poor Job. He put up with a lot and he was still expected to worship God and be "happy." So, is that what God's version of happiness is all about? Grin and bear and be happy that maybe when you die you'll join me in heaven? Or you should just be happy and thankful for what I give you?

Goodness knows the saints are perfect examples of this -- your life really sucked but that's what was supposed to make you happy about it. Or how about all that self-inflicted physical pain that some people put themselves through (can't think of the proper term right now, sorry).

The point being, I suppose, is that I don't see where God necessarily tells us he wants us to be happy. Or that we're going to be happy.

"Everything happens for a reason." "It's all in God's plan."

I just don't understand/get that he would really care about the details of our life. I don't see any justification that everything happens for a reason, that God really has a plan for each of us and individuals, or that "happiness" is part of the deal.

More like, you get what you get so just feel blessed that it could be worse. (Which, I suppose, is basically true.)

And if that is true, I'm having a really hard time doing just that.

So, please, tell me where I'm going wrong here. (Yes, I just invited you to tell me I'm wrong. )

Early Catholic philosophers and theologians, including those living today, say that God created us to be happy. God is happy and perfect and wants us to be like him in sharing this. Anyone that says God doesn't want you to be happy is a liar that wants you to be miserable too.

God wants us to feel loved, content, and as happy as can possibly be. God doesn't put us to test and He is not the author of death and suffering. At the same time, contrary to greedy preachers on religion channels, God doesn't want to bless us with material goods. He wants us to be fully ourselves.

People suffer as a result of this world. The suffering and horrible things that we see doesn't mean that meaning and good can't be found in it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hi. I need some input from fellow Catholics that, hopefully, understand theology a bit better than I do.

This is something I've been struggling with lately and I can't seem to find the right doctrine/theology/whatever to figure this out.

I mean, something about the statement "God doesn't care if you're happy" just seems fundamentally flawed.

But we hear things that aren't true all the time. ("God's timing is perfect.")

I know that Jesus says God provides for the birds, and they're just birds, so obviously he'll care about us (rough translation). But does that just mean basic necessities?

Scriptures say we ought not worry - for He will provide.
Yes, it is necessities - but He gives what He knows we need.
Sometimes we think we need material things above - but His will is for our holiness...and eternal happiness.

Remember Lourdes - our Lady said 'I cannot promise you happiness in this life...'
Basically - God wants us happy - and He does provide and we shouldnt worry. All the other stuff we think merits happiness falls flat to the true happiness in Heaven.
That's what He wants for us.

Look at poor Job. He put up with a lot and he was still expected to worship God and be "happy." So, is that what God's version of happiness is all about? Grin and bear and be happy that maybe when you die you'll join me in heaven? Or you should just be happy and thankful for what I give you?

Job was the epitome of grace and sustenance regardless of hardships in this life.
Grace helps us obtain a certain happiness - which ppl on earth dont get it...
God's grace sustains us - and He lifts us to a level of happiness that isnt earthly wants - but when we focus on the Him and the next life - we can and do get thru this life with less worries and the hard times have less impact - to where we dont despair them.

Goodness knows the saints are perfect examples of this -- your life really sucked but that's what was supposed to make you happy about it. Or how about all that self-inflicted physical pain that some people put themselves through (can't think of the proper term right now, sorry).

The point being, I suppose, is that I don't see where God necessarily tells us he wants us to be happy. Or that we're going to be happy.

"Everything happens for a reason." "It's all in God's plan."

I just don't understand/get that he would really care about the details of our life. I don't see any justification that everything happens for a reason, that God really has a plan for each of us and individuals, or that "happiness" is part of the deal.

More like, you get what you get so just feel blessed that it could be worse. (Which, I suppose, is basically true.)

And if that is true, I'm having a really hard time doing just that.

So, please, tell me where I'm going wrong here. (Yes, I just invited you to tell me I'm wrong. )

Folks think happiness is this life. This life is a limited time only - and we should store our riches for the next life.

True hapiness is letting grace carry us and keep focused on the eternal bliss of the next.
My understanding of how Saints got thru it all - and it was God carrying them and they cooperated regardless of pain and sorrow - they were able to get thru anything...

I realize too many folks think and live for now and only now. Thats why things are even harder to deal with. They want the good now - and forget that we as humans cannot have that - every second of the day as it is in Heaven.

Its actually makes things more difficult believing God should be our 'do good for me now'.... when He in turn wants us to be eternally happy after we get thru the earthly trials.

Take it for what its worth - my opinion.

May the Lord keep us from the tests and trials of Job

 

[princess_ballet]

Um, I never said that "happiness" meant Earthly possessions. I certainly do not think that money or things will bring you happiness. Never said that, never would.

 

[MKJ]

Maybe for me, it comes down more to love. And how I perceive what that means and how you would treat someone you love.

Jesus comes down here and takes on all the sin of the world FOR US. Yet, in my understanding, God's "plan" is to let you suffer and be miserable and too bad for you. Just don't sin. And be happy that you aren't sinning.

And I also have this weird thing where I don't equate Jesus with God. Obviously, I believe in the trinity, but Jesus has a different reputation/character than God does to me. Two distinct figures.

More CS Lewis:

We are, not metaphorically but in very truth, a Divine work of art, something that God is making, and therefore something with which He will not be satisfied until it has a certain character. Here again we come up against what I have called the “intolerable compliment.” Over a sketch made idly to amuse a child, an artist may not take much trouble: he may be content to let it go even though it is not exactly as he meant it to be. But over the great picture of his life—the work which he loves, though in a different fashion, as intensely as a man loves a woman or a mother a child—he will take endless trouble—and would doubtless, thereby give endless trouble to the picture if it were sentient. One can imagine a sentient picture, after being rubbed and scraped and re-commenced for the tenth time, wishing that it were only a thumb-nail sketch whose making was over in a minute. In the same way, it is natural for us to wish that God had designed for us a less glorious and less arduous destiny; but then we are wishing not for more love but for less.”

 

[Luther073082]

Not a Roman Catholic but I doubt that our theology is very different here.

Maybe for me, it comes down more to love. And how I perceive what that means and how you would treat someone you love.

Jesus comes down here and takes on all the sin of the world FOR US. Yet, in my understanding, God's "plan" is to let you suffer and be miserable and too bad for you. Just don't sin. And be happy that you aren't sinning.

Maybe that's God's plan. . . or maybe that's just how it works out. There are sinful people in the world that God does not control (he could but he does not because that would be unloving to them.) and there are the effects of the condition of sin in the world that afflict us unequally. I'm not sure that God plans on certain people suffering, but in the end many people do. God does tell us however to help those who are suffering. So it's not like God is blind to the people who are suffering. One of his big things he keeps telling his servants to do is help those who are in need. If the help his servants provide isn't enough then either he doesn't have enough servants or he has bad servants.

What God desires most of all is contentment in him. That is sort of an attitude that, I can go through these rough things on earth and as long as I have God, I'll be ok.

And I also have this weird thing where I don't equate Jesus with God. Obviously, I believe in the trinity, but Jesus has a different reputation/character than God does to me. Two distinct figures.

Remember it's Jesus who promised his closest followers that they would be hated by the world and face very early and violent deaths in his name. Trust me this is the very same God.


There is nothing in and of itself wrong with being happy on earth and seeking earthly happiness just so long as we do not sin while doing it. The problem is that far too many people are willing to sin in order to obtain that earthly happiness. They are all too willing to hurt others and endanger their chances at happiness in order to obtain their own.

I mean we see this most clearly in divorce. Someone isn't happy in the marriage so for no other reason then their lack of happiness in the marriage they divorce their spouse. They have not only hurt their spouse and his/her happiness, but they have also endangered their children's happiness as well. And these children for no other reason then mom or dad wasn't happy with something are now unhappy that they can't live with and see both of their parents at the same time.

Parents do this all the time, making life more difficult on their children and they justify it that they are unhappy and decide that God would want them to be happy.

But Christianity is not ultimately about your earthly happiness, it's about serving God, being content in him, and ultimately the eternal joy we will receive in the resurrection.

Christianity teaches one to worry about others as much so if not more so then themselves. And it teaches one to be content no matter the situation. The example of most of the greatest saints in history shows this out. They not only where focused on the needs of others, but they where also content about their place in life and willing to serve God where ever he led them.

Do you feel like God has rules in place which prevent you from being happy on earth? Or where you hoping for some sort of promise of earthly happiness from God?

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Hi. I need some input from fellow Catholics that, hopefully, understand theology a bit better than I do.

This is something I've been struggling with lately and I can't seem to find the right doctrine/theology/whatever to figure this out.

I mean, something about the statement "God doesn't care if you're happy" just seems fundamentally flawed.

But we hear things that aren't true all the time. ("God's timing is perfect.")

I know that Jesus says God provides for the birds, and they're just birds, so obviously he'll care about us (rough translation). But does that just mean basic necessities?

Look at poor Job. He put up with a lot and he was still expected to worship God and be "happy." So, is that what God's version of happiness is all about? Grin and bear and be happy that maybe when you die you'll join me in heaven? Or you should just be happy and thankful for what I give you?

Goodness knows the saints are perfect examples of this -- your life really sucked but that's what was supposed to make you happy about it. Or how about all that self-inflicted physical pain that some people put themselves through (can't think of the proper term right now, sorry).

The point being, I suppose, is that I don't see where God necessarily tells us he wants us to be happy. Or that we're going to be happy.

"Everything happens for a reason." "It's all in God's plan."

I just don't understand/get that he would really care about the details of our life. I don't see any justification that everything happens for a reason, that God really has a plan for each of us and individuals, or that "happiness" is part of the deal.

More like, you get what you get so just feel blessed that it could be worse. (Which, I suppose, is basically true.)

And if that is true, I'm having a really hard time doing just that.

So, please, tell me where I'm going wrong here. (Yes, I just invited you to tell me I'm wrong. )

I know you asked this of your fellow Catholics but I believe the answer transcends the human bounds of Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant, etc.

Does God want us to be happy?

That is a difficult question. The question could be worded more lengthy- Does my Creator want us to be happy with His will or our individual wills?

What is happiness really? Is it when things go our way? Is it when our senses are fully indulged in whatever we choose?

Christ calls us to a life of humility, self-denial and servitude to our neighbor. Does this sound like happiness to most people? To lay aside their "self" and submit to the will of another? In our fallen nature- I think we would deceive ourselves if we said, "Oh! That sounds so wonderful! I want to fully lay aside all my own desires, my likes, my dislikes, and fully submit to the Will of God!" Naturally- we are not in this frame of mind. We must realize that we cannot reach this mindset on our own accord- "without me, you can do nothing. (John 15:5)"

It seems, our happiness is fully realized only once we submit our will to that of our Creator, the lover of mankind, who only wishes good for us! It's as if we must learn what true happiness is. This is something we all struggle with to some degree or another. This applies to me even more so.

Please forgive my intrusion.

Michael

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Hm....

Maybe happy wasn't the right word. I didn't mean to be so technical as you all were with it.

But, then, if He doesn't really care, if they only thing we're supposed to be worried about is avoiding sin, and beyond that He doesn't really care, then why do we even bother to pray?

For example, I was praying last night that they'd find this guy that was missing. They found him...dead. Did God just not care what happened? It didn't matter either way to Him.

Not that this incident spurred on these feelings, but I think that's a good example.

And, let's just say, that the dude starved to death (he didn't). And let's say he prayed for God to provide him with food. How has God taken care of him like he would take care of the birds? (Yes, that was convoluted.)

We are in no position to question the Will of God- that is why we pray, "Thy will be done. It's much easier for us to ask "why" instead of trusting in God's providence. I think that God is incapable of "not caring" since He is omnipresent- He knows what's going on everywhere, at all times. Just because they found this man dead, does not mean that God's will was not carried out. God calls us in His time, not ours. If someone is starving, and God feeds a bird, but not the person starving- does this mean God doesn't care? Absolutely not! God orchestrates existence quite well- we should let Him continue in is Divine Providence towards His creation.

Please forgive me.

Michael

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Maybe for me, it comes down more to love. And how I perceive what that means and how you would treat someone you love.

Jesus comes down here and takes on all the sin of the world FOR US. Yet, in my understanding, God's "plan" is to let you suffer and be miserable and too bad for you. Just don't sin. And be happy that you aren't sinning.

And I also have this weird thing where I don't equate Jesus with God. Obviously, I believe in the trinity, but Jesus has a different reputation/character than God does to me. Two distinct figures.

You make a very good statement- "...how I perceive what that means..." You hit the nail on the head- it's when our individual perceptions are not in line with the Will of God- we automatically think that God hates us and wants us to be miserable and suffer- this is not the case. Just as a child who wants to do something that they feel will give them pleasure, but the parent knows that this is not good for the child- the parent prevents the child from carrying out it's will and hurting itself or endangering itself. It can be this way with God. The child doesn't have foresight to see the consequences of it's actions. The parent who can "see the big picture" knows what is best for the child. Once the child learns from experience and guidance from the parent, the child's perception changes. It thinks, "maybe that wasn't so good for me after all." Ultimately, if the child does not trust it's parent, it's going to a have a long, hard road, in which nothing seems to go according to the child's will and that the parent is only wanting misery and suffering for that child.

Unless we have "eyes to see," we will not see God's love, His Providence, His Good Will towards us. How do acquire the ability to see? We must purify our hearts. Through watchfulness, through humility, through prayer. Unless our hearts are pure, we cannot reflect God's love and thus cannot even begin to love truly.

"God's plan" in your understanding is just that- your understanding. God's plan is not subjective. Our understanding is clouded by all the passions and sin of our everyday lives. We cannot perceive clearly that which is truly God's plan unless we are prepared to do so.

God is not a figure- singularly, so to speak. God encompasses Christ. You cannot say God and not mean Christ- they are inseparable. God = the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. To address God is to address the Trinity, which includes Christ.

Please forgive me.

Michael

 

[WarriorAngel]

Um, I never said that "happiness" meant Earthly possessions. I certainly do not think that money or things will bring you happiness. Never said that, never would.

No, didnt say you did - but the push for happiness is earthly only - usually. Most ppl think God should make us happy now on earth.
And many want material comforts.... and if they dont have money and resources for the fun stuff - they dont think they are happy.

Happiness is contentment in living simply and being close to the Lord and seeing His daily miracles.
Ppl who arent satisfied - are seekers for creature wants and not needs.

Ask folks - what makes you happy.
List may contain:
Quadding
hunting
gaming
malling
shopping
driving hot cars
dating hot dates
...etc

When they fail to yield happiness - they just dont see the point in seeking where our happiness really lies. In God - and in His 'friendship'.

Its a me me society - but look at someone in the 3rd world - food, water and shelter is what gives them happiness...contentment.


BTW - i do believe we all have an ordained amount of days on earth... but everything else is left to chance except when we pray.

 

[MagicSabbath]

Does God want us to be happy?

It would revoke his characteristic of omnibenevolent if he didn't.

 

[princess_ballet]

Remember it's Jesus who promised his closest followers that they would be hated by the world and face very early and violent deaths in his name. Trust me this is the very same God.

But that's not the kind of suffering I'm talking about here. Let's use my chronic migraines as an example. That isn't because someone else has sinned. That isn't because I've sinned. And it certainly isn't because I'm Catholic. It just is. I realize that God doesn't just remove all of this when He could, but it's just so needless and pointless.

Christianity teaches one to worry about others as much so if not more so then themselves. And it teaches one to be content no matter the situation. The example of most of the greatest saints in history shows this out. They not only where focused on the needs of others, but they where also content about their place in life and willing to serve God where ever he led them.

Right. And I would think this goes back to love and the greatest commandment and all that.

Do you feel like God has rules in place which prevent you from being happy on earth? Or where you hoping for some sort of promise of earthly happiness from God?

I do feel like there are a lot of "rules" and maybe I'm just getting bogged down in that. I feel like it is more about following the rules then a relationship or anything else. Perhaps because most of the rules seem rather pointless to me.

I was not hoping for some sort of promise for Earthly happiness. I'm just wanting to know that God cares. And I don't really see that right now.

 

[princess_ballet]

We are in no position to question the Will of God- that is why we pray, "Thy will be done. It's much easier for us to ask "why" instead of trusting in God's providence. I think that God is incapable of "not caring" since He is omnipresent- He knows what's going on everywhere, at all times. Just because they found this man dead, does not mean that God's will was not carried out. God calls us in His time, not ours. If someone is starving, and God feeds a bird, but not the person starving- does this mean God doesn't care? Absolutely not! God orchestrates existence quite well- we should let Him continue in is Divine Providence towards His creation.

Please forgive me.

Michael

Well, I am questioning it and I'm not going to be chastised for asking questions.

But that being said, if God has this "plan" or something is according to His will, then why do we pray at all? He's going to do what he wants to anyway. So, it seems to me, that the idea of a "petition" is completely worthless. It won't change His mind. He doesn't care what you have to say, so why bother asking Him at all?

And why bother praying "They will be done." Because He's going to do that anyway. Again, the prayer seems completely pointless to me.

 

[princess_ballet]

You make a very good statement- "...how I perceive what that means..." You hit the nail on the head- it's when our individual perceptions are not in line with the Will of God- we automatically think that God hates us and wants us to be miserable and suffer- this is not the case. Just as a child who wants to do something that they feel will give them pleasure, but the parent knows that this is not good for the child- the parent prevents the child from carrying out it's will and hurting itself or endangering itself. It can be this way with God. The child doesn't have foresight to see the consequences of it's actions. The parent who can "see the big picture" knows what is best for the child. Once the child learns from experience and guidance from the parent, the child's perception changes. It thinks, "maybe that wasn't so good for me after all." Ultimately, if the child does not trust it's parent, it's going to a have a long, hard road, in which nothing seems to go according to the child's will and that the parent is only wanting misery and suffering for that child.

Unless we have "eyes to see," we will not see God's love, His Providence, His Good Will towards us. How do acquire the ability to see? We must purify our hearts. Through watchfulness, through humility, through prayer. Unless our hearts are pure, we cannot reflect God's love and thus cannot even begin to love truly.

"God's plan" in your understanding is just that- your understanding. God's plan is not subjective. Our understanding is clouded by all the passions and sin of our everyday lives. We cannot perceive clearly that which is truly God's plan unless we are prepared to do so.

But I fail to see where we think God has a "plan" for anything. And to argue that He's trying to teach us something or make it better for us assumes that he cares about the little details of our life. I don't think He does. He only cares when we mess up.

God is not a figure- singularly, so to speak. God encompasses Christ. You cannot say God and not mean Christ- they are inseparable. God = the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. To address God is to address the Trinity, which includes Christ.

Yes, I know what the holy trinity is, as I mentioned when I posted my thoughts on that. I understand the theology.

 

[princess_ballet]

No, didnt say you did - but the push for happiness is earthly only - usually. Most ppl think God should make us happy now on earth.
And many want material comforts.... and if they dont have money and resources for the fun stuff - they dont think they are happy.

But then what you're saying is applicable to my question. I certainly don't think that material things will bring you happiness.

To me, happiness is embodied in love (God = love).

Ppl who arent satisfied - are seekers for creature wants and not needs.

But again, that's not me. I'm not seeking "creature wants" and I'm not satisfied.

BTW - i do believe we all have an ordained amount of days on earth... but everything else is left to chance except when we pray.

But if it is all left up to God's will and his "plan" and all of that, then why pray?! As I've mentioned, He's going to do what He wants anyway, so what difference does it make if I pray?

 

[Davidnic]

It can be theorized that all illness and dysfunction comes down to the fact that sin deforms creation. It is a disease that distorts all things from as they should be. So, in a theological way...your chronic migraines come from sin.

1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence, or metaphorically, "the tinder for sin" (fomes peccati); since concupiscence "is left for us to wrestle with, it cannot harm those who do not consent but manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ." Indeed, "an athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules."

And God uses such things, illnesses large and small...to make us better:

1501 Illness can lead to anguish, self-absorption, sometimes even despair and revolt against God. It can also make a person more mature, helping him discern in his life what is not essential so that he can turn toward that which is. Very often illness provokes a search for God and a return to him.

But all sickness and suffering, large and small...are part of the temporal effects of the disease of sin loose in the world and in us.

 

[Davidnic]

On the prayer issue, again it is a about relationship and trust. It is also so we change ourselves to fully accept God's plan. Since we do not know if He is going to give us what we ask for, we ask with confidence that He will give it if it is what is to be given.

We do this as an act of faith in His love for us. It is also possible He, at times, waits for this act of faith in order to give something.

There are many mysteries and acts of faith in this that are difficult when we struggle with these questions.

 

[WarriorAngel]

But then what you're saying is applicable to my question. I certainly don't think that material things will bring you happiness.

To me, happiness is embodied in love (God = love).



But again, that's not me. I'm not seeking "creature wants" and I'm not satisfied.




But if it is all left up to God's will and his "plan" and all of that, then why pray?! As I've mentioned, He's going to do what He wants anyway, so what difference does it make if I pray?

How can you be happy/satisfied?
You arent in Heaven...ATM. That's where happiness resides.
On earth we get glimpses of some joy - we have some things or times we are happy.

The point is - we have to stay close to the Lord in order to obtain happiness which is Heaven, not earth.
Yes He wants us happy - but as long as we are separated from Him - we will always yearn - always seek - always want more - that unreachable utopia - it goes on like that all of our earthly life.
When we hit 'home' [ Heaven] - then we will be happy.
God is happiness in its truest form.
We are not with Him - so we arent fully happy.

Actually this is yet another reason we know God exists. Our souls long for 'something more' that something something that will fill us - that pure elation... we yearn for God - most just dont know that.