Does God Want Man to be God?

[Samson2021]

Matt 12:28 But if I cast out devils BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, then the Kingdom of God has come unto you."

Jesus' words again!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Matt 12:28 But if I cast out devils BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, then the Kingdom of God has come unto you."

Jesus' words again!

Still doesn't say that casting out devils is required as evidence that one has the Holy Spirit. You won't find that proof text because it doesn't exist. You will, however, still find Ephesians 1:13 and Acts 2:38 in your Bible..

-CryptoLutheran

 

[oikonomia]

Samson2021, you have made a good case for proving that speaking in tongues and casting out demons is in the New Testament, practiced by the apostles, taught by the Lord Jesus and expect of the church.

Now are you ready to examine what else the Bible says while we believe these things?
This is the problem of being all-embrassing and balanced.

Before we go and make Pentacostal issues the "end all and be all" of the Gospel, how about we include what ELSE the New Testament shows us?

Do you think it is possible to embrace the Pentacostal expriences along with counter balancing teaching that centers us, protecting us fvrom going to one extreme or another?

 

[Samson2021]

Before we go and make Pentacostal issues the "end all and be all" of the Gospel,

These are only signs that follow a true believer, who has received power from on high, just as Jesus said.
They are not an end all of anything and I never said such. Please stop twisting the words I post.
It may have been implied by the way it was read, but it was still never said.
A true believer is one who has received the Spirit, for "without the Spirit ye are none of His" and if one does indeed have the Spirit I would
expect from personal experience that at least a couple of these things that Jesus said a believer would do, they should have done in
order to confirm to them who they are in Him. That is not a bragging point, it is testimony to the reality of the power of the Holy Ghost
within the believer. Not the power of me. The main one being praying in tongues. All who have received of the Spirit have this even
if they wish to suppress it, it is still there. And this is different than speaking in tongues as moved to do so within a group.
Shall we call it worshiping in the Spirit on a personal level?
I find proclaiming Christians who say that tongues on a personal level were only for the early church, mostly Church of Christ, and that
would be expected as they either have not the Spirit, or suppress the gift.
Others who say they would be scared if the Lord spoke to them. But "My sheep know my voice"
There is a great multitude that have received not the love of the truth and have thus been given strong delusion such that they should
believe a lie. And there are many lies within the organized Christian denominations.
I'm sure we could spend months on those lies but in short the lies only limit the understanding of the Christian and keep them babes in
the pews getting weekly bottle feedings of milk.
If indeed they have the Holy Ghost they should be listening to Him as the truth can only be found with Him. If, however; they have
made the decision to sit under some preacher then they have forfeited their inheritance to be taught of the Holy Ghost and any
maturity will come at an extremely slow pace if at all. We won't even mention the overcomer issues they will miss out on.
Hidden manna is awesome. But it belongs only to those who have overcome the issue necessary to receive it. Thus sharing is
impossible except with another that has received of the same.
Share whatever you wish and we will see what comes of it.

 

[oikonomia]

These are only signs that follow a true believer, who has received power from on high, just as Jesus said.
They are not an end all of anything and I never said such. Please stop twisting the words I post.

If you read carefully, you'll see I wrote "Before . . . we go and make . . . . "

It may have been implied by the way it was read, but it was still never said.
A true believer is one who has received the Spirit, for "without the Spirit ye are none of His" and if one does indeed have the Spirit I would
expect from personal experience that at least a couple of these things that Jesus said a believer would do, they should have done in
order to confirm to them who they are in Him.

I won't say only speaking in tongues is evidence of a man having received the Spirit of Christ in order to be His.
Romans chapter 8 says nothing about tongue speaking.

It does speak of our calling "Abba, Father!" in verse 15.
It also speaks of the Holy Spirit enhancing our prayer with groanings that cannot be uttered, because He knows what the true need is in us. (vs. 26,27)

That is not a bragging point, it is testimony to the reality of the power of the Holy Ghost
within the believer. Not the power of me. The main one being praying in tongues. All who have received of the Spirit have this even
if they wish to suppress it, it is still there. And this is different than speaking in tongues as moved to do so within a group.
Shall we call it worshiping in the Spirit on a personal level?

There is the private worship experience. And there is the corporate worshipping experience which Paul recommends should be limited if there is no interpretation to be given.

I find proclaiming Christians who say that tongues on a personal level were only for the early church, mostly Church of Christ, and that
would be expected as they either have not the Spirit, or suppress the gift.

You have, I think, the freedom to exercise the gift or the freedom not to.
I did something in private for awhile. If another brother wants to continue in faith speaking in tongues, let him follow his conscience.

I will probably lean back towards the subject I initiated.
The wanting of God - Does He want man to be God.
That is in those communicable attributes which He is able to express in the vessel of our created human virtues.

 

[Samson2021]

1 Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him(Jesus), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him(God) that did
put all things under Him, that GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL.

God is LOVE (agape) and once the plan is finished love is all and in all. Thus the entire creation was for the procreation of more LOVE.
Said another way the "Word was God" i.e. the plan was to procreate love or procreate the substance of God. First accomplished in
Jesus Christ and all will follow that pattern.

1 Co 15:27 For He(God) hath put all things under His(Jesus') feet. But when He(God) saith all things are put under Him(Jesus), it is
manifest that He(God) is excepted that did put all things under His(Jesus') feet.

And as 28 shows us the Son is under subjection to the Father. Thus not equal nor the same entity as God is not subject unto Himself.
God is subject unto no one, but the Son is under subjection to the Father. We will obviously disagree on this issue but
Love is eventually all that stands. A procreation of sons that are love themselves just as God is love. After all we are encouraged
to become more like our Father which is in heaven. Why? Makes the transformation easier if we just do as were told. The longer
you fight the process the longer you will hang on your own cross before eventually dyeing to the will of the Father, which was
always in our best interest. "All things work to the good for those that love His appearing"

All the above said, it is obvious that if the Son(Jesus) is subject unto the Father, then we are subject unto the Father, and the Son,
thus we are not the only true God and never could or can be. And this would apply to Jesus as well.

 

[oikonomia]

1 Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him(Jesus), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him(God) that did
put all things under Him, that GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL.

Identify any time when the Son was not subject to His Father?
If the subjection in First Corinthians 15:28 is sudden and unprecidented then WHEN during the entire life and ministry of Christ, was He NOT subjected to the Father?

1 Co 15:27 For He(God) hath put all things under His(Jesus') feet. But when He(God) saith all things are put under Him(Jesus), it is
manifest that He(God) is excepted that did put all things under His(Jesus') feet.

By now I expect that you have shown me above WHEN Jesus Christ wasn't subject to the Father.
From birth? During 33 1/2 years of life on earth?

You emphasize - "then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him . . . " as if Paul is describing something new.

Philippians 2:6 proves this subjection was His total path taken certainly from His incarnation ONWARD.

"Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped.
But emptied Himself, (subjection)
taking the form of a slave, (subjection)
becoming in the likeness of men; (subjection)
He humbled Himself, (subjection)
Becomming obediient even unto death, (subjection)
and that the death of a cross. (subjection)

Therefore also God hightly exalted Him (here too subjection)
and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, (further subjection)
That at the name of Jesus every knee should how, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (still subjection)
And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (subjection still)

Paul is not describing a subjection not previously experienced by Christ as the incarnate God-man.

You also don't take into account the Father's will - that is that His kingdom is forever and ever, not temporary, not loaned, not terminated, not taken away, not superceded but an eternal kingly exaltation of the Son of Man.

"I watched in the night visions,
And there with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming;
And He came to the Ancient of Days,
And theu brought HIm near before Him,
And to Him [the Son of Man] was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and languages might serve Him.
His domion is an eternal dominion, which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one that will not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:13,14)

We must take into account the WILL of the One to whom the Son is said to subject Himself to at the end of the millennium.

Furthermore, IN the millennium, the Son already considers that the kingdom of the Father!

" The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness And will cast them into the furnace of fire . . .
Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matthew 13:43a)

The Son of Man's kingdom is also "the kingdom of their Father."
It cannot be "their Father" but not the kingdom of His Father as well.

" . . . go to My brothers and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God." (John 20:17)

And as 28 shows us the Son is under subjection to the Father.

And when was the Son prior to this time NOT under subjection to the Father?

Thus not equal nor the same entity as God is not subject unto Himself.

That is your reasoning because you think some rivalry or competition exists in the Three of the Triune God.
God expresses Himself as perfect authority.
And God expresses Himself as perfect submission to authority also.

God is subject unto no one, but the Son is under subjection to the Father.

Why then does God speak to Israel telling them to COMMAND Him concerning His sons and the works of His hands?

"Thus says Jehovah,
The Holy One of ISsrael and the One who formed him,
Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons,
And concerning the works of My hands, command Me." (Isaiah 45:11)

Here the Jehovah God expresses Himself as one receiving command to carry out His plans.
He wants men on earth to be so in harmony with Him that they would even command Him to carry out His plans.

And God expressed Himself as a subjective man on earth when the Word Who was God became flesh.

The Divine exaltation of this God-man is not terminated at the end of the millennial kingdom.
Regardless of the Son manifesting delivering up to the Father (the kingdom which He said was of the Father anyway) He is exalted for eternity.

"To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen." (Ephesians 3:21)

Question: Is the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus only unto the end of a coming generation?
Answer: No. Rather it is "UNTO ALL THE GENERATIONS FOREVER AND EVER."

Beware of those tampering with the revelation of Trinity. Usually it is accompanied with fighting against the Deity of Jesus Christ.

We will obviously disagree on this issue but
Love is eventually all that stands.

Surely, I believe God is love.
And the Son of God says the Father loved Him before the foundation of the world - before the existence of the universe.

" . . . that they may behold My glory, which You havegiven Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)

Of course the Word was with God (John 1:1) - before the foundation of the world.
And the Word WAS God (John 1:1) - before the foundation of the world.

And this divine eternal love must be the essence of the Triune God. And this is far beyond our limited human minds to really fully understand. But it must be so.

And as much as I would like to write more I must stop here for this hour.

 

[oikonomia]

Love is eventually all that stands. A procreation of sons that are love themselves just as God is love.

This love is the essence of God as the Triune God.
And this oneness of the Three of the Trinity is the unity of the church.

This oneness the saints are PERFECTED into through the work of the Triune God.
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one . . . " (John 17:21a)

This perfecting the oneness is the will and desire of God. It is according to His desire.
Therefore the petition of the Son for this perfecting is not renegade, rebellion, or non-subjection to the Father's will.
Rather the Son's request IS the will of the Father.

"And I do not ask concerning these only, but concerning those also who believe into Me through their word, that they all may be one; even as You, Father are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (vs 20,21)

The Son always does what is pleasing to the Father (John 8:29)
It is therefore both the intercession of the Son and the will of the Father.
It is both the request of the Son and the commission of the Father.

That is that the binding love of the Three of the Godhead be infused, ransfued, and perfected saints redeemed FROM the Divine "Us."
" . . . even as You, Father are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us . . . " (v.21)

After all we are encouraged

We should be encourage that Jesus Christ is God.
Your insistence that Jesus Christ is not God doesn't encourage this truth of the Bible.

We should be encouraged that the petition of the Son in John 17 cannot fail to be accomplished in eternity.
Though His Godhead is not communicable the life, nature, expression and glory of the Triune God is the dispensed into the church.
This oneness in eternal love is the oneness of the church. The Trinity is the oneness perfecting into oneness with God and with one another the chosen, predestinated, selected, called, redeemed, regenerated, sanctified, transformed, conformed, built together in one Body and glorified humans as sons of God - being of the "species" of God-men as the Firstborn Son (among many brothers) is.

"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one;
I in them, and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:22,21)

, it is obvious that if the Son(Jesus) is subject unto the Father, then we are subject unto the Father, and the Son,
thus we are not the only true God and never could or can be. And this would apply to Jesus as well.

Two truths you oppose:
1.) Jesus Christ is God.
2.) Jesus Christ is man from incarnation. And in resurrection He has many brothers being conformed to His image.

His Godhead we cannot share.
But because He became like us and resurrected bringing back to the throne forever the glorified humanity
He is the CORNERSTONE of this building. His being the CORNERSTONE is non-cummicable in that He is the Godhead.
But His being God-man in glorified humanity makes us ALSO living STONES held togther in this building.

"Coming to HIm, a living stone, rejected by men but with God chosen and precious, You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifies acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it is contained in Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a CORNERSTONE, chosen and precious, and he who believes on Him shall by no means be put to shame." To you therfore who believe is the preciousness; but to the unbelieving. "The stone which the builders rejected, this has beome the head of the corner." (First Peter 2:4-7)

But His eternity effecting petition in John 17 is that we be with Him where He is.

"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)

We should not think this means to be with Him on some cloud.
We should not think He means be with Him only in some "where" He is only in a physical sense.

His salvation carries out the will of the Triune God that the saved be with Him in the expression of God mingled with man.
The love of the Father or the Son and the Son for the Father is from eternity - before creation - "before the foundation of the world."

The Son first brought God into man.
The Son in resurrection brought back man into God.

What the Son wants, prays for, petitions for, and ever lives to intercede for is the Father's will AND of the work which He gave the Son to accomplish. That is the deification of man in the communicable attributes of God yet not in His Godhead.

His last sentence is that this eternal love known between Him and the Father would be IN THEM along with the Son being in them forever.

"Righteous Father, though the world has not known You, yet I have known You, and these have known that You have sent Me.
And I have made Your name [Father] known to them and will yet make it known, that the love with which You have loved Me may be in them, and I in them." (vs. 25,26)

 

[Samson2021]

The really big elephant in the room here is that your Bible, like mine, simply says that
if you confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal
life.

Never says that God sent Himself or some appendage of Himself or raised Himself from the dead. He gave His only begotten
Son born of woman(Mary) into the world to take away the sin of the world.
Jesus was just a man that was born without a carnal mind thus not under condemnation but still under the law. The law was written
for man, not God, as God is above the law. And as Jesus was born under the law, JUST A MAN.

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, A MAN THAT HATH TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, WHICH I HAVE HEARD OF GOD.

Now if He heard it from God and He was God(according to you) then why say it wasn't from Himself? Did He lie, or deceive?

The only time He ever equated Himself with the Father was when He said "I and My Father are one." Meaning they were one in Spirit
just as anyone who is joined unto the Lord is ONE IN SPIRIT, but that does not make them God either.

Apparently I am the only one who will engage you on this and I am growing very bored with the topic so this will be my last post
on it. I will believe what I know and you can continue to twist it up however you see fit, but it still has nothing to do with salvation
unless you consider that by removing Jesus as a man and calling Him a God-man, you deny his humanity which is a spirit of
anti-Christ spoken of by John.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God, for every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God.
3-And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is not of God.....................
He could not be a God-man, as it is stated even by Jesus Himself He was Just a man sent by God to tell us the truth. John 8:40

John 4:15 All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God, have God living in them, and they live in God.

 

[oikonomia]

The really big elephant in the room here is that your Bible, like mine, simply says that
if you confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This wonderful passage of Romans 10:9 is no embasessment to me at all.
What problem does Romans 10:9 hold for me?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal
life.

John 3:16 presents no problem to what I've written here?
What problem does John 3:16 present?

Never says that God sent Himself or some appendage of Himself or raised Himself from the dead. He gave His only begotten
Son born of woman(Mary) into the world to take away the sin of the world.

It doesn't say what is on the dark side of the moon either.
John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 are just two verses with their respective messages.
Not every verse must contain the entire revelation of the whole Bible.

John 1:1,14 show One - the Word was with God and was God.
And this One tabernacled among us.

Jesus was just a man that was born without a carnal mind thus not under condemnation but still under the law. The law was written
for man, not God, as God is above the law. And as Jesus was born under the law, JUST A MAN.

Jesus is the Word Who was with God and was God become a man.
So John 1:1,14, John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 all present aspects of the truth.
There is nothing there as an embarressing "elephant in the room" to me as you hoped.

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, A MAN THAT HATH TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, WHICH I HAVE HEARD OF GOD.

This is wonderful. There is also nothing here as a problem to my God being the man the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now if He heard it from God and He was God(according to you) then why say it wasn't from Himself? Did He lie, or deceive?

John 8:40 we take along with John 1:1,14.
Your problem is that you find the two aspect of the Gospel impossible to both be true.

The only time He ever equated Himself with the Father was when He said "I and My Father are one." Meaning they were one in Spirit
just as anyone who is joined unto the Lord is ONE IN SPIRIT, but that does not make them God either.

No, this was not the only time.
And you are implying that the Apostle John lies. (John 1:1)
And you are saying the prophet Isaiah lies. (Isaiah 9:6)

And when Jesus in resurrection declares He is the First and the Last who was dead and is alive forever and ever (Rev. 1:17,18), He is saying He is Jehovah God. (comp. Isa. 44:6; 48:12).

But on to the other point:
Christ became a perfect man. But He DENIED that perfection and lived by the Father.
He was perfect but sought not His own glory, sought not His own will, spoke not His own words, carried out not His own judgments.
This sinless man also denied what He was as a perfect man to live by the Father.
Thus He also learned obedience through the things which He suffered. So in this regard was perfected to become our Joshua and Leader and Pioneer.

God became a man and denied Himself to be a model for us who are not God incarnated.

"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me shall also live because of Me." (John 6:57)

As the ancient false teacher Arius taught you are clinging to his errors. Ie. Because Christ lived such a subjected life to the Father it follows for you that He cannot be God Himself. But you are wrong. And the ancient brothers were wise to reject the Arian heresy of the incomplete Deity of Jesus Christ.

Now I have repeated many times - the non-communicable attributes of God though Christ has we will never have.
But the communicable attributes of God as our begetting Father are the life and nature of the sons begotten of Him.

I showed you the bulding God is building has its CORNERSTONE (God become a man) and its other joining stones - the saved as also living stones. It is ONE habitation of God in spirit. There is only one CORNERSTONE. But it is a STONE, isn't it?

The same is seen in the True Vine and the branches. The true vine and the branches in John 15 is one organism.

Apparently I am the only one who will engage you on this and I am growing very bored with the topic so this will be my last post
on it.

Well, we'll see.
I still cannot figure out why you thought Romans 10:9 should be some kind of embarressment to me.

There are those who are weak in the faith. And we are told to receive those who are weak in the faith.
I never asserted that I know that you are not a Christian.

Romans 10:9 is quite a wide opened door in that you confess Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead.
All who do so will not be put to shame.

I will believe what I know and you can continue to twist it up however you see fit, but it still has nothing to do with salvation
unless you consider that by removing Jesus as a man and calling Him a God-man, you deny his humanity which is a spirit of
anti-Christ spoken of by John.

I see. You had hoped that John 1:1,14 could be rejected perhaps but one could still confess Jesus as the Lord raised from the dead.
Well, I want to be strong in faith and not weak in faith. So I will continue to believe both Romans 10:9 and Isaiah 9:6.

I am willing to give those who claim to love the Lord Jesus the benefit if a doubt.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God, for every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God.
3-And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is not of God.....................
He could not be a God-man, as it is stated even by Jesus Himself He was Just a man sent by God to tell us the truth. John 8:40

If you think about it a little more I think you will realize that John there is saying Jesus is God.
Of course every human being born comes in the flesh.
What human being born has NOT "come in the flesh?"

The implication is that Jesus is God come in the flesh.
You see, certain gnostic teachers in John's day simply could not believe that Jesus was a real genuine flesh and blood MAN.
They thought He was TOO GOOD to be material. They taught that material is ALWAYS bad and the Son of God could not have been material, could not have come in the flesh.

First John 4:2 is the Apostle combating these ancient "anti -flesh" or "anti-material" / "anti-incarnation" Christian "teachers."
Jesus Christ HAS come in the flesh is upholding the incarnation of the Word who was God who became flesh. (John 1:1,14)

John 4:15 All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God, have God living in them, and they live in God.

This is wonderful. And the One indwelling is the Divine Us of the Triune God.
And furthermore the titles are interhangeagle as we can detect NO seperation "the Spirit of God" is "the Spirit of Christ" is "Christ" Himself is "the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead." See Romans 8:9-11.

The believers can detect no separation. I cannot either.
So the revelation of the Triune God certainly is valid.

 

[oikonomia]

Are you all also bored?

There are two issues on which Samson2021's unitarianism debates.

First - he reasons that Christ cannot be God Himself.
Ie. If He has brothers then like His brothers neither He nor them can be God.
Second - he reasons God cannot in any sense be our partner if He is God and we are is creations.

But the Bible presents both - He is God and He has become the Elder Brother to many brothers.
He has made God life to us.
We can not say He has made man the Godhead.
But He has made the redeemed be God living in them and being forevermore thier life.

 

[The Liturgist]

Still doesn't say that casting out devils is required as evidence that one has the Holy Spirit. You won't find that proof text because it doesn't exist. You will, however, still find Ephesians 1:13 and Acts 2:38 in your Bible..

-CryptoLutheran

Indeed. Exorcism also strictly speaking does not even require a charism, in that Baptism and Chrismation will exorcise those converting to Christianity, and for those who already are converted, exorcism actually just involves standardized liturgical prayers.

Now that said, I am not a cessationist, but the monasteries wherein one will find most of the extremely humble and reclusive people who in my experience have charisms, are quite different from the experience of charismatic or Pentecostal Christianity. Now my great uncle, memory eternal, who was a minister, has son in law is a Pentecostal minister (ministry really is a family business, my Godfather was also a minister) who recently retired and who I respect greatly and who is extremely reverent, and indeed some Pentecostal churches are reverent and beautiful. In the main, there are a few Charismatic things that happen which I am not convinced are the work of the Holy Spirit, such as the Toronto Blessing, being “Slain in the Spirit”, speaking in tongues without a translator in a language which does not actually exist, particularly when one incorrectly thinks one is speaking in Aramaic, and the theological system sometimes called the Word of Faith movement as articulated and espoused by Joel Osteen, and also the snake handling business in the Appalachians.

However it is my experience that those who I am positively convinced have charisms are and historically have been extremely reserved about it, to the point where it frequently comes out only after they have reposed, and also if asked about it they might just say they are a sinner. Especially those who are laity, living in the world.

 

[friend of]

Jesus wants to exult His bride.

 

[oikonomia]

Jesus wants to exult His bride.

Yes. You know the Spirit and the Bride are so blended eventually that they speak together.

"And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come!" (Rev. 22:17a)

Typically we would think of a married pair as the Bride and the Bridegroom.
Well it is still the Bride (the church) and the Bridegroom (Christ0.
But the Bridegroom has also become the indwelling Spirit of divine life IN the Bride.

So one they become that they eventually speak together -

"And the Spirit (the indwelling Bridegroom) and the Bride say, Come!
And let him who hears say. Come!
And let him who is thirsty come;
let him who wills take the water of life freely."

I wrote a song in this:
Let Him Take the Water of Life

 

[friend of]

Yes. You know the Spirit and the Bride are so blended eventually that they speak together.

"And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come!" (Rev. 22:17a)

Typically we would think of a married pair as the Bride and the Bridegroom.
Well it is still the Bride (the church) and the Bridegroom (Christ0.
But the Bridegroom has also become the indwelling Spirit of divine life IN the Bride.

So one they become that they eventually speak together -

"And the Spirit (the indwelling Bridegroom) and the Bride say, Come!
And let him who hears say. Come!
And let him who is thirsty come;
let him who wills take the water of life freely."

I wrote a song in this:
Let Him Take the Water of Life

Yes I just recently read Song of Songs (song of solomon) and it was such a beautiful description of the way Christ loves and cherishes His bride. In the Passion translation He calls her His "equal" in a few places, which is such an amazing honor that Christ would think so highly of His bride, even though we aren't really His equal hahah

 

[oikonomia]

Yes I just recently read Song of Songs (song of solomon) and it was such a beautiful description of the way Christ loves and cherishes His bride. In the Passion translation He calls her His "equal" in a few places, which is such an amazing honor that Christ would think so highly of His bride, even though we aren't really His equal hahah

Excellent point.
Yes the lover eventually becomes Shulamite - a feminine Solomon.
To the king she become his match and countepart after a long transformation.
To the enemies she becomes like an army with banners - fierce.

What is the Passion translation?

 

[friend of]

What is the Passion translation?

It's a relatively new translation. I think it's quite romantic in its language all throughout and it's a pleasure to read. I wouldn't consider it a bible to do serious study from, but it's a nice change of pace.

 

[oikonomia]

It's a relatively new translation. I think it's quite romantic in its language all throughout and it's a pleasure to read. I wouldn't consider it a bible to do serious study from, but it's a nice change of pace.

Loving the Lord is the best way to live by Him.
If we feel that we don't love Him too much, our hearts can be warmed up by confessiing that He loved us and loves us so.
We love Him because He first loved us.

Then we are inclined more to return some of that great love. How can we not?
Song of Songs is a book of pursuing the Lord by loving Him.
And His love is a transforming one on us, tremendously strong and making us a suited spouse to Him in the end.

Did your study do anything to show something of the stages the lover goes through to arrive at being the Shulamite?
I too recently had some ministry in the Song of Songs.

 

[friend of]

Did your study do anything to show something of the stages the lover goes through to arrive at being the Shulamite?
I too recently had some ministry in the Song of Songs

I don't know if I'd call it a study, it was more of just a read through. There was a little bit of adversity in Songs but overall I appreciated the mutual expressions of love between the bridegroom king and the shulamite. It made me feel as though Christ was speaking to me with thoughts of love and that was nice.

 

[oikonomia]

I don't know if I'd call it a study, it was more of just a read through. There was a little bit of adversity in Songs but overall I appreciated the mutual expressions of love between the bridegroom king and the shulamite. It made me feel as though Christ was speaking to me with thoughts of love and that was nice.

It is a very profound book. And it is beyond my experience. But those who have tasted deeper things in Christ help me to appreciate it.
It is where we as lovers of Jesus are going. We are on the journey. It is individual yet corporate too since the climax is a Body for Christ.

The loving female needs wooing. For as her love grows she is less and less self centered.
So at times the loving king is not there but skipping on the mountains. He is in resurrection and ascension.
She must pursue. She must be delivered from the self. She must be delivered from passivity, self satisfaction.

Sometimes the pursuit is resisted by the old nature.
But after chapters she is so totally transformed and ravishingly desireable to the king.

And she more and more loves him just for himself.
The best way to grow in the divine life is to love the Lord Jesus for Himself.
He is incomparable and no one and nothing can compete with Him.
"What is your beloved more than some other's beloved?" they ask her.

He is to be loved simply for Himself.
And she becomes ravishingly desireable to him, and cooperative.
They work together.
She takes on the nature of the beloved king.
And in taking on his nature she is terrible to the enemy, a terror to enemies of the king.

The poem is about our subject matter here.
The lover of the Triune God eventually is infused, saturated, steeped, and permeated with the nature of the divine life.
This love is as strong as death. The ecstasy of this union is more precious, more valuable than anything that exists.

Christ returns on a mountain of spices - the fragrance of many, many dealings with the flesh.
An untold nunber of transforming experiences of His seekers passing through this growth and development.

Though the journey is long, though it seems that the Lord is off, withdrawing, hidden, He is in resurrection beckoning for His seekers to join Him. No trials can discourage her. No adversity can stop her inevitable progress to become the female Solomon, the Shulamite.

She goes from a love like an Egyptian chariot drawing horse, dragging along behind her the world.
She arrives at a garden. She lives not only in resurrection but in the ascension of Christ - His total delight.

She joins the king from truth, from soft armor, from destruction.
She comes out of the old man and into the new creation - God mingled with man.

"You are altogether beautiful, my love,
And there is no blemish in you.
Come with me from Lebanon, my bride;
With me from Lebanon come,
Look from the top of Armana (meaning truth)
From the top of Senir and Hermon (meaning soft armor and meaning destruction)
From the lions' den,
From the leopards' mountains." (SS. 4:7-8)

To the enemy the transformed Bride is as a lion, the anti-Christ forces are the prey.
To the enemy the conformed Bride is as swift as a leopard to join Christ and prey upon the enemies of God.
See Revelation 19.

God flowing through her as living waters.
A love divine as strong as death.
The loved as a seal on his heart.
Cruelity as a ruthless unstoppable power sweeping away all interfering with this transformation.

What a journey is seen in this poetry.
It is about the transforming love of Christ's full salvation to arrive at a corporate match of Himself - Solomon and Shulammite.
From a Egyptian stallion pulling the world, through many stages to even a palanquine for the king to ride in, a garden,
a pillar of smoke, steadfast and reliable but whose will has been subdued and made like that of the Beloved.

"Draw me and we will run after you."
We are drawn individually.
But we are a part of a great corporate lover the church - the Bride, the Wife, the New Jerusalem.