Does God Turn Away People Who Want to be Saved?

[Mountainmanbob]

It's up to them entirely.

I thought it was entirely up to God.
Jesus said they cannot come unless the father draws them. No where does Jesus say it's entirely up to you. Jesus actually says it is a work of the Holy Spirit and you do not have control over that.

The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen it does not say many are called and a few choose God.

M-Bob

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Nobody. They must come up with the desire by seeing the truth of God. It's up to them entirely.

Jesus didn't die for them, then.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

 

[HeatRamosHidden]

I thought it was entirely up to God.
Jesus said they cannot come unless the father draws them. No where does Jesus say it's entirely up to you. Jesus actually says it is a work of the Holy Spirit and you do not have control over that.

The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen it does not say many are called and a few choose God.

M-Bob

The authority of it is entirely up to God. Humility is when someone chooses to humble themselves and accept this.

Which means it's not entirely up to God, except in authority.

An Arminian might say, "I chose God's will"
A Calvinist might say, "God chose me".

IMHO, a balanced view between the two is the correct one.
Humility is something which someone can choose over pride, which can give the illusion that the person is a good person. It's not that the person is a good person, but that person's humility was allowed to awaken from God's will.

Which means we CAN do something about our own salvation. Otherwise the scriptures would make no sense with it's verses in Salvation and Free Will.

 

[Buckeyefor Jesus]

Are there any people who want to be saved, but Christ turns them away?

NO

 

[Buckeyefor Jesus]

I thought it was entirely up to God.
Jesus said they cannot come unless the father draws them. No where does Jesus say it's entirely up to you. Jesus actually says it is a work of the Holy Spirit and you do not have control over that.

The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen it does not say many are called and a few choose God.

M-Bob

There is only ONE(1) way to God our Father and that is through his son Jesus Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ever hear of the Rich Young Ruler? How about the 120 who were following Him in John 6?

These were unconverted Jews, not born again believers.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Who are the "any" in that text?

Simple comprehension. God's desire is that everyone would be saved, although not every person will receive the Gospel.

So, they are not chosen. They do the choosing.

Depends on your theology. If you are Calvinist, it is God who initiates and therefore does the choosing. If you are Arminian, you do the choosing yourself. This is one of the great debates of the Christian Church and it is not easily solved. The bottom line is: are you saved? Did you choose Christ as your Saviour? Once that is resolved in you, the rest is just academic.

What about those who haven't heard the proclamation of the gospel?

Read the beginning of Romans where Paul explains this very clearly.

Can soil change itself?

How do I answer that question? Jesus was giving a parable to explain the dispositions of different people toward the Gospel.

 

[Robert76]

I'm not saying they're ruined forever if God kind of hides his face from them, I'm saying that God won't put up with stupidity of sin for some people as if they are ignorant and don't know the consequences of what they're doing. Sometimes God may seem absent, noticeably, in a person's life, even if that person never had him to begin with, so they at least "try" to seek him out. Once they realize that they can't even begin to properly seek God out of their own volition, they may decide to humble themselves so God saves them.

Yes, the Bible does say in Hebrews 12:6, "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives" and in James 4:8, "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded." What a tremendous gift and friend we have in His Holy Spirit! John 16:8 states, "And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If I answer "yes there are people who will not be saved", then I am their judge or at least judging them as destined for hell. But we are commanded not to judge our brothers and sisters as though they are Raca which is to say "worthless":

Matthew:

{5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be
in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

...

{7:1} Judge not, that ye be not judged. {7:2} For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And if I say no, then I am deciding for God who he will save. And if I tell my brothers and sisters that they will be saved, and I have no power to save them, then it is sin for me because, I as a child of God, have no power to save.

So I don't think I can answer and remain without sin, but I can quote scripture:

Revelation:

{20:13} And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {20:14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {20:15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the matter of judgment, and thus who will be saved, appears not to be who desires to be saved, but rather our works should judge us.

And this appears to be a reference to the Book of Life, although it doesn't reference Life but rather God's book:

Exodus:

{32:31} And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin,
and have made them gods of gold. {32:32} Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. {32:33} And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

So then if I interpret this book to be the Book of Life of God, then it's clear who will not be saved, it is them that sin against the Lord God. And it mentions not whether or not they desire salvation.

In the early 1800s, the Presbyterian Church was Calvinist. They believed that it was God's prerogative to reveal Himself to people and to bring them to salvation, so they did not believe in evangelism. They opposed Charles Finney who did believe in evangelism. While the Presbyterians of the time declined and went stale, Finney had continuous revival for all of his ministry. The Methodists of the time were ardent evangelists and they won thousands to Christ. But the the Wesleyans were Arminian. Finney identified himself as halfway between the two. You can read up on his theology in his Systematic Theology which I think can be downloaded through Google. Trouble is that he uses very complicated expressions and long words so you need your dictionary alongside while reading it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Do you sin? Have you ever committed a sin?

It depends on one's definition of sin and which definition causes a person to lose their salvation or prevents them being saved in the first place. It also depends on how complete a Saviour Jesus is in how much of our sinfulness he took upon himself on the cross.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Where is the law that demands a vow of poverty?

There is none.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Which is?

Read what Peter said to the crowd in Acts 2 and what Paul said to the Philippian jailor.

 

[devin553344]

God created all; therefore all sin is against Him. David proves this in his prayer of repentance, "Against you, and you alone, have I sinned."

Hmm, well I hope you get saved.

 

[devin553344]

In the early 1800s, the Presbyterian Church was Calvinist. They believed that it was God's prerogative to reveal Himself to people and to bring them to salvation, so they did not believe in evangelism. They opposed Charles Finney who did believe in evangelism. While the Presbyterians of the time declined and went stale, Finney had continuous revival for all of his ministry. The Methodists of the time were ardent evangelists and they won thousands to Christ. But the the Wesleyans were Arminian. Finney identified himself as halfway between the two. You can read up on his theology in his Systematic Theology which I think can be downloaded through Google. Trouble is that he uses very complicated expressions and long words so you need your dictionary alongside while reading it.

Yea, I'll need the dictionary. I'm definitely not an English major.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yea, I'll need the dictionary. I'm definitely not an English major.

I have read extensively the work of Puritan writers and find them easy to understand, but Finney was a Nineteenth Century American lawyer and you know what they are like. I think that is why he used such difficult legal sounding words to express his opinions.

 

[Monk Brendan]

If the price for everyone's sins have been paid for, then who is in hell, and why?

Because everyone has a free will, and some choose to NOT cooperate with Christ.

 

[Hammster]

Because everyone has a free will, and some choose to NOT cooperate with Christ.

I got that. But what are they being punished for in hell?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Because everyone has a free will, and some choose to NOT cooperate with Christ.

Romans chapter 8 and 9
explains it differently.
M-Bob

 

[DeaconDean]

I agree God’s invitation is extremely hard to resist, but the Master did not go to the streets and kidnap people to go to His banquet. Everyone at the Banquet was invited (drawn to it, by how marvelous it was), but some, of their own free will, refused for no good reason.

Many are called, few are chosen.

Here again, of the untold number of people who were preached to in Acts 13:48, who responded?

I know the answer, but I also know that no matter what I post, your gonna say they resisted of their own "free-will".

And I will still say that not one single sinner can walk down the road and of their own "free-will" all of a sudden stop and say I'll attend church, I'll stop sinning, I'll accept and believe of my own volition.

Given the choice of living in sin and all that it entails, verses living as God wants, people would rather live in sin.

And again, I have supplied the Greek to support Jn. 6:44.

If you have an issue with it, take it up with John when you see him one day. Or the authors behind the Greek Lexicon

God Bless

Till all are one.