Does God Try His Best to Save Everyone?

RisenInJesus

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What nonsense. You do understand that the word kosmos is used like TWELVE different ways in the Bible, right? Rarely does it mean "all people without exception." In the case of John 3:16,17, it's a reference to the elect, i.e., those that have/do/will believe in Him unto salvation. Read it with that in mind:

John 3:16,17
For God so loved the elect/believers, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the elect/believers; but that the elect/believers through him might be saved.

The words elect or believers are not in the text. Calvinists must add them though to fit their view of limited atonement. Most Calvinists simply imply this meaning when reading verses like John 3:16,17. This is the first time I've seen someone bold enough to actually rewrite God's Word.

Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6
 
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RisenInJesus

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This is the order given:

1) born again

2) see kingdom

One has no comprehension of who Jesus even is without being born again. He is blind. In fact, he's dead.
I don't think it is right to take one verse out of context from the entire passage, chapter, or whole cannon of scripture. The verse where Jesus speaks about being born again and seeing the kingdom must at least be considered with the rest of the book of John. Notice earlier in John 1:12,13 it does not say: "But as many as have been regenerated (born again), to them gave He the power to believe on His Name, even to those who have become the children of God." It does say: But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Later the in John it is reiterated that belief in Jesus comes first, then life (life in Christ, new life, being born again)
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:30-31

There are so many scriptures, too many to even list which say and show that faith/belief in Jesus is necessary before one receives new life. I actually think the moment one places faith in Christ they are born again instantaneously.
 
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TaylorSexton

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...Reformed circles who display such an attitude of proud superiority and consider themselves so much more enlightened than those other Christians.

Unfortunately, this is an attitude too commonly found among the Reformed. I see it in myself far too much, even. I am very sorry that you have had to deal with that from us, friend.
 
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RisenInJesus

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Unfortunately, this is an attitude too commonly found among the Reformed. I see it in myself far too much, even. I am very sorry that you have had to deal with that from us, friend.
I think the reality is that it is an attitude we all, including myself, must be on guard against. I am very thankful that we are... predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29), because I can trust that God will be faithful in dealing with my wrong attitudes and bringing about more Christ-likeness, love, and humility.
 
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Hammster

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Okay, if you help me out I will because I am not trying to misrepresent it. Can you give me an example of what you think is a straw man and then tell me or explain why and what the actual point of argument should be according to Reformed theology or Calvinism.
One, you implied that in Calvinism, God makes us believe. That's one.
 
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Hammster

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Notice earlier in John 1:12,13 it does not say: "But as many as have been regenerated (born again), to them gave He the power to believe on His Name, even to those who have become the children of God." It does say: But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Notice the part that you didn't underline. They are born of the will of God.
 
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RisenInJesus

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One, you implied that in Calvinism, God makes us believe. That's one.
Well, go ahead and continue and tell me how you believe faith or belief from your perspective or the position of Calvinism should be explained. Or maybe you can answer this question...can irresistible grace be refused?
 
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RisenInJesus

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Notice the part that you didn't underline. They are born of the will of God.
I do not question that those who are born again are born by the will and power of God. I am only saying that a person is born again and given new life because and at the moment they express faith in and receive Jesus Christ as their Savior.
 
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Hammster

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Well, go ahead and continue and tell me how you believe faith or belief from your perspective or the position of Calvinism should be explained. Or maybe you can answer this question...can irresistible grace be refused?
Before I answer, what do you think irresistible grace is/does?
 
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Hammster

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I do not question that those who are born again are born by the will and power of God. I am only saying that a person is born again and given new life because and at the moment they express faith in and receive Jesus Christ as their Savior.
That would be fine if the verse said that. At best, you can make an argument for faith preceding justification, which is correct.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Draws like a moth to a flame...

Fishes for people...

A moth to a flame is going to die. A man to God is going to be made alive.

I'm not sure how you mean the fishing thing, but remember, God doesn't fish with bait. He uses nets.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

How does one move from this condition to faith in Christ?
 
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Hammster

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The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

How does one move from this condition to faith in Christ?
Don't forget

“and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:8‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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PollyJetix

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If God desires all men to be saved, why aren't they? Is it that He isn't trying hard enough?

Please answer the following question without changing any of God's attributes. Why aren't all men saved, if indeed God desire all men (without exception) to be saved?



* I do not believe that God has ever intended to save all people, but many people do, so I am interested in their replies.

Yes.
God has done His level best to save the entire world...
With one caveat.

He will not deny the way He already decreed for men to be made...

With a FREE WILL.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes.
God has done His level best to save the entire world...
With one caveat.

He will not deny the way He already decreed for men to be made...

With a FREE WILL.

Precisely what do you mean by "FREE WILL"? If you have the time and interest here is a very helpful article - Free will - Wikipedia
 
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cuja1

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If God desires all men to be saved, why aren't they? Is it that He isn't trying hard enough?

Please answer the following question without changing any of God's attributes. Why aren't all men saved, if indeed God desire all men (without exception) to be saved?



* I do not believe that God has ever intended to save all people, but many people do, so I am interested in their replies.
Maybe He is unable to save everyone due to the methods required to save a person.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Yes.
God has done His level best to save the entire world...
With one caveat.

He will not deny the way He already decreed for men to be made...

With a FREE WILL.

You say that God would rather let people with sin-induced insanity decide for themselves to be condemned to Hell for eternity? Well, it's a good thing that He doesn't "violate" their "free will", at least.
 
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