Does God truly love the non-elect?

abacabb3

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Christ loved the rich young ruler, but that did not stop him from letting him walk away. He didn't plead with him and drag him by the hand.

Nowhere does the Bible say God loves all men, unconditionally, no matter what they do or what they believe. In fact, the Scripture says the opposite. Of course, because people presume the preceding view, they totally misunderstand predestination.
 
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JM

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I'm a Christian and I believe in sovereign grace and in the total depravity of man (you could say that I'm kind of Reformed), but how can I say to people, when witnessing, that God loves them, when in fact God only has true love for His elect? If someone says that God's love towards all people is manifested by the fact that God gave them life, and food, and air, and family... well, that would mean that God loves non-elect in the same way He loves ants, and grass and my dog... that is not true "love", is it? This question has been bugging me for some time now and I would really appreciate some help. Thank you.

I never tell people "God loves you" or that "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life." I follow this patter:

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

We have many ideas about what a person has to do to get to heaven. Some believe we must follow the “Golden Rule,” and do good deeds which will eventually outweigh the bad we have done, tipping the scales in our favour….after all, we are all basically good people…right?


If we assume we are good people we are also assuming a standard for what we consider good. Since we assume there is an absolute standard for what is good there must be an absolute standard giver. The Bible repeatedly states that God has given mankind a holy, universal Law, that is written on our hearts and our conscience bears witness to this Law. This Law is revealed and summarized in the Ten Commandments. When we look at God’s Law, we must understand that we have all sinned in some way or another; remember, you don’t have to break all Ten to be guilty of breaking the Law. The Bible warns, “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”

“… it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” Hebrews 9:27

Let’s look at a few of the Commandments and see how we fare:
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.” Have you ever taken God’s name in vain? If you have, you are a blasphemer and can not enter the Kingdom of God.


“Honour your father and mother.” Have you always honoured your parents in a respectful manner? In a way that God would consider honouring?


“You shall not steal.” Have you ever taken something that didn’t belong to you (irrespective of its value)? What do you call someone who takes something that doesn’t belong to them? A thief – You cannot enter God’s Kingdom.


“You shall not bear false witness.” Have you ever told a lie? Just one? What do you call someone who told a lie? A liar. The Bible warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire.


You and I are guilty of sinning against God by breaking His Law, and because we have a conscience, we have sinned “with knowledge.” Isn’t it true that when you steal, lie, etc. you know that it’s wrong? Does the fact that you have sinned against God bother you? The punishment for breaking God’s Law is Hell. Eternal Death.


“Almost every natural man that hears of hell, flatters himself that he shall escape it; he depends upon himself for his own security; he flatters himself in what he has done, in what he is now doing, or what he intends to do. Every one lays out matters in his own mind how he shall avoid damnation, and flatters himself that he contrives well for himself, and that his schemes will not fail.[1]“


WHAT MUST YOU DO TO BE SAVED FROM THE PENALTY OF BREAKING GOD’S LAW?

There is good news, there is a GOSPEL. God the Father has given us a mediator in Jesus Christ who is the incarnation of God. Jesus took upon Himself man’s nature, becoming subject to the Law of God, and perfectly obeying the Law in thought and deed for His entire lifetime on earth. While on earth Christ took the sins of His people upon Himself, and suffering the punishment due to all their sins paid the penalty by dying on the Cross, “…for the wages of sin is death.”

By dying in place of His people Jesus Christ became the mediator between God and man and revived in His people the righteousness, holiness and true knowledge lost as a consequence of sin.


As we find ourselves before a holy God we are convicted for breaking His righteous Law. The Holy Spirit moves in the soul to bring us to acknowledge our guilt and brokenness before God and His righteousness. We come to hate sin and find Jesus Christ precious. The Holy Spirit convinces the broken sinner of the shamefulness of sin and then brings the offender to a place where they can, “repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.”

If you feel the weight of sin on your heart and have come to see the blackness of your soul in the light of God’s Law…if you have been brought to a place where you dread the judgement of the trice holy God, BELIEVE THE GOSPEL! If you believe that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for your sins the Bible assures us that, “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

__________________________________________________

[1] quote taken from a sermon by Jonathan Edwards titled, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.”
 
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hedrick

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I do not understand why so many interpret Jn 3:16 as they do, it would seem without even considering if their hermenutic of "world" is consistent with verses like 1 Jn 2:15 "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Huh? If you assume that "love the world" means the same thing in both verses, you've just established that the love of the Father isn't in God. I hope I've misunderstood your point.
 
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Water Cross

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Thank you for your responses. :)

When scripture tell us God is love and God created all people in his image and likeness, how could he not love all people?

Imagine this scenario. A father has 10 children living in his house, but he loves only 3 of those children that are his blood offspring.

Possible? If he is to call himself a good father?
 
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Huh? If you assume that "love the world" means the same thing in both verses, you've just established that the love of the Father isn't in God. I hope I've misunderstood your point.

The paradox is solved by properly interpreting "world" in each context. The point is that "loved the world" in Jn 3:16 does not mean what so many think it does. Even assuming the primary audience of the Gospel of John is Gentiles.


John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

"He was in the world" cannot mean "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God", and "the world was made" also means "the universe" in this context.

John 15:19 “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

"of the world" here means "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God". Btw, for readers out there, this is a great proof text for the Reformed doctrine of election.

John 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world"

"before the foundation of the world" the context for "world" here is different, such that "world" has a different meaning in this passage than some other passages using similar terminology. Unless the meaning is "before the creation of everyone (anyone)", but in my mind the phrase refers to pre-creation, before the creation of the earth. Maybe it would help to quote Thayer's Greek definitions:

- Original: κόσμος
- Transliteration: Kosmos
- Phonetic: kos'-mos
- Definition:

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
3. the world, the universe
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
a. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ​
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
b. of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19​

- Origin: probably from the base of G2865
- TDNT entry: 17:28,5
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine
 
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abacabb3

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When scripture tell us God is love and God created all people in his image and likeness, how could he not love all people?

Imagine this scenario. A father has 10 children living in his house, but he loves only 3 of those children that are his blood offspring.

Possible? If he is to call himself a good father?

Christ loved the rich young ruler, but that did not stop him from letting him walk away. He didn't plead with him and drag him by the hand.

Nowhere does the Bible say God loves all men, unconditionally, no matter what they do or what they believe. In fact, the Scripture says the opposite. Of course, because people presume the preceding view, they totally misunderstand predestination.
 
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Water Cross

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Christ loved the rich young ruler, but that did not stop him from letting him walk away. He didn't plead with him and drag him by the hand.

Nowhere does the Bible say God loves all men, unconditionally, no matter what they do or what they believe. In fact, the Scripture says the opposite. Of course, because people presume the preceding view, they totally misunderstand predestination.

I feel sorry for people who believe God creates all life to come into being, but does not love all living that are born from him.
Those type must use the Bible as a doorstop.
 
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dhh712

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When scripture tell us God is love and God created all people in his image and likeness, how could he not love all people?

It is not for me to question why God does what He does and acts the way He acts. I submit to that which He has revealed of Himself to me in His word; though I may wonder why it is, I would not demand a satisfying answer of Him or have it be an obstacle in the way of trusting in Him.

God is not only love, though He is definitely that; that is a caricature of God which it seems many Christians like to make up which has no foundation in the Bible (that is, no where does it say that God is only love and nothing else; it does say that God is love, but to not consider His other attributes is to disregard a large portion of Scripture).


Imagine this scenario. A father has 10 children living in his house, but he loves only 3 of those children that are his blood offspring.

Possible? If he is to call himself a good father?

Only those who God has adopted are correct in calling Him Father. The rest are the offspring of their father Satan.



I feel sorry for people who believe God creates all life to come into being, but does not love all living that are born from him.


God does love all those who are born from Him, only not all are born from Him. Only those who He has spiritually regenerated are born from Him.

I feel sorry for those who do not submit themselves to the authority of God as He reveals Himself to them in His word, and especially for those who think they know God but rather make up something which has its foundation in the world and not in what is written (or only partially in what is written as in looking at God as only love).
 
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JM

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I feel sorry for people who believe God creates all life to come into being, but does not love all living that are born from him.
Those type must use the Bible as a doorstop.

We feel sorry for you to Water Cross. Your god is so small and petty if the will of man can overrule His love, desire and offer to save. That's a pretty pathetic god whose plans are thwarted by fallen, sinful man.

jm
 
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stenerson

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I'm a Christian and I believe in sovereign grace and in the total depravity of man (you could say that I'm kind of Reformed), but how can I say to people, If someone says that God's love towards all people is manifested by the fact that God gave them life, and food, and air, and family..Thank you.

I haven't kept up with the responses so forgive if someone else shares my view. Who claims God truly loves the non-elect? Is that supposedly a Calvinist position? Scripture does say God is very patient, long suffering and good to most but....
And is it scriptural to say there are people that God hates?
 
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abacabb3

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I feel sorry for people who believe God creates all life to come into being, but does not love all living that are born from him.
Those type must use the Bible as a doorstop.

I hear all of these assertions from you and conjecture about how everyone misunderstands the Bibe, but you are yet to enlighten us with where in the Bible God loves everyone with no conditions, and so everyone is given an equal shot at salvation.

We're waiting.
 
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twin1954

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I feel sorry for people who believe God creates all life to come into being, but does not love all living that are born from him.
Those type must use the Bible as a doorstop.

To say that God must love all men is to say that the love of God is a useless and empty emotion in Him. It robs the love of God of power and of any real meaning.

Love, especially in God, seeks the best and does all it is able to do to bring about the most good and best for the object of love. God's love is closely related to His wisdom and His power. He alone is able to truly love.

God's love is entirely and completely in Christ the Son. In electing love He chose a people, those who deserve nothing from Him but wrath and just punishment, and gave them to His Son in the everlasting Covenant of peace. God's love sent Christ Jesus into the world to stand in the place of chosen sinners to live and die in their room and stead as their Substitute. God's love actually accomplished the full and free redemption , justification and everlasting bliss in eternal glory with Him who loved us and gave Himself for us.

God's love is no empty emotion but a power and purpose to do the objects of His love good.
 
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RisenInJesus

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I completely understand that we are all sinners who deserve hell, and God would be just if He sent us all to hell. But if He decided to save some of these people, why not save all? I understand that God receives glory both from saving wicked people (love) and from punishing wicked people (justice), but then we'd have to assume that He doesn't really love non-elect, that He shows favoritism, even though the Bible explicitly says in Romans 2:11 "For there is no partiality with God".

Also, God commands us to love our enemies so that we may be sons of God (Matthew 5:44-45), which kind of implies that God loves His enemies (the non-elect).

This issue doesn't affect the way I see God, it only affects the way I see the God portrayed by Calvinism (even though quite recently I considered myself a Calvinist :D ). I pray that God will direct me to the correct system of theology, whichever it may be.
Have you read.... What Love is This? or T.U.L.I.P. and The Bible, by Dave Hunt? I believe Calvinism distorts God and the gospel message of His love and salvation which is offered to all.
 
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