"Does God really want us to become vegan?"

[prodromos]

I think a lot of that comes from the reason people become vegetarian/vegan. I was an ordinary guy for 47 years, eating anything I wanted. Then I found out I was diabetic, did some research, and found a plant-based diet could beat my diabetes. Which it did, in exactly 3 months. I retain my current diet for health reasons, but that doesn't mean I don't occasionally still desire a 'cheeseburger'. Only now it's a black bean or portobello burger instead of cow. It's a craving I can satisfy without actually having a traditional burger.

In contrast to your own experience, Mikhaila Peterson, the daughter of Jordan Peterson had her severe arthritis cured by changing her diet to meat only.

 

[SeventyOne]

In contrast to your own experience, Mikhaila Peterson, the daughter of Jordan Peterson had her severe arthritis cured by changing her diet to meat only.

Glad to hear it.

 

[JacksBratt]

there are laws for all sorts of things - that doesn’t mean they’re being obeyed. That’s a little naive to have that mindset.

You didn't read the rest... It is not in the farmers best interest to mistreat animals...
And.. where are these factory farms?
I'm well aware that laws are broken... Even vegetable farmers cause mass issues with E-coli....

 

[Kaon]

You didn't read the rest... It is not in the farmers best interest to mistreat animals...
And.. where are these factory farms?
I'm well aware that laws are broken... Even vegetable farmers cause mass issues with E-coli....

There are laws against abuse of animals. Any farmer that I know.. and I know many.. I have also worked on many farms.... their animals are their income.. They only get top dollar when the animals are healthy. The best way to do this is to give them proper conditions to live in, food and water.

I don't know what a "factory farm" is.

Secondly.. there are animals that live and roam free in the wilderness's of this earth... No abuse... Nor so called "Factory farming".. and we can hunt them... But people don't want that either....

People just don't want animals killed for food. It has nothing to do with "abuse" or "factory farming" or any such drivel.....

They just don't want me to have my steaks and burgers...

So........here's the deal.. You don't bug me about my "medium rare" and I won't laugh at you for wanting a fake meatball or burger..... Deal?


Oh, and by the way... in the 1800's there was more Bison in North America than all the cattle today. So, you can forget about flatulence being an issue. They roamed in majestic herds of huge sizes. Today, that would cause environmental hysteria.....

It's so interesting (in a good way) to see someone you agree with on one level in so many ways (our academic/scientific exchanges), but disagree with on other things.

...like your (apparent) flippant attitude toward vegetarians/vegans "taking 'yer burgers."

 

[Kilk1]

"...he who is weak eats only vegetables" (Rom. 14:2, NKJV).

 

[Deade]

No, he gave Adam and Eve vegetables to eat before their fall into sin and Noah and his descendents meat to eat after the flood.

You are deciding doctrinal truths by non inclusion. God gave Adam and Eve fruits and nuts, but is that all He said they could eat? Somewhere, not written in our scriptures, God had orally passed on the "clean" meat ordinances: Most likely with Adam himself. We are shown it was already established in Noah's day (see Gen. 7:2).

 

[Kaon]

"...he who is weak eats only vegetables" (Rom. 14:2, NKJV).

Did the Word of the Most High say this (The Christ/Son of Man), or a man?

 

[Strong in Him]

Did the Word of the Most High say this (The Christ/Son of Man), or a man?

Paul said it.
But it's half a verse, taken out of context, used to try to "prove" that eating only vegetables is not wise.

 

[Dkh587]

You didn't read the rest... It is not in the farmers best interest to mistreat animals...
And.. where are these factory farms?
I'm well aware that laws are broken... Even vegetable farmers cause mass issues with E-coli....

There are factory farms all over the USA and world.

 

[JacksBratt]

It's so interesting (in a good way) to see someone you agree with on one level in so many ways (our academic/scientific exchanges), but disagree with on other things.

...like your (apparent) flippant attitude toward vegetarians/vegans "taking 'yer burgers."

We are very interesting and different creatures...God is great that He made us so unique to our selves.

 

[JacksBratt]

I eat meat. I don't think it is wrong to do so. I know that we are always going to have those that are abusive to animals..whether it is pets, beasts of burden or those raised for food.. These are the exception to those that treat all animals humanely.

I do, also, think that dependent on your taste, the way you were raised, your personal feelings and views... and genetic make up.. that less meat or a no meat diet... would be best for your health or state of mind and conscience..

This scripture has always been of interest to me. I believe that diets with meat and without can be healthy or unhealthy.. I wonder what the king was feeding them:

Daniel 1:8-16 King James Version (KJV)

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.


9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.


10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.


11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,


12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.


13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.


14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.


15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.


16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are factory farms all over the USA and world.

OK, so, if there are.. are they regulated by the agencies that monitor what goes on in the US? Are they held to stipulations, standards and regulations in regards to the humane treatment of animals and safe food production? Are they fined, prosecuted and shut down when they are discovered and investigated?

If you are aware of them... do you think that your government enforcement groups are not?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Without reading what's linked in the post I can already say that the answer is no. Not that being vegan is wrong, but in that any attempt to proscribe dietary rules on Christians is inherently wrong. We are free and at liberty in our conscience to eat accordingly.

If someone, by virtue of their conscience, chooses to be vegan then that's great. That is the choice they made for themselves according to their own conscience and they should abide by their conscience on such matters.

The error is in going from an act of personal conscience to proscribing it for all. God doesn't tell us what we can and cannot eat, but leaves such matters to our own conscience. So whatever we eat, as long as we do it with a clear conscience and to the glory of God then we are free. That is what Scripture teaches.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean that we should.

What is more important, and better for us to honor: God's original intent and perfect will? (Which is peace and harmony among all creation, no flesh eating) Or what God permits in this fallen world, due to sin and our weakness?

To me the answer is obvious.

"One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." - Romans 14:2-4

It's really that simple.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Brightmoon]

As far as the OP . It depends on whether it makes you healthier. Some people like it some don’t. This a is a personal decision and not up to whether your religion likes it or not. I don’t think this is an issue of whether God likes it or not as it wouldn’t be good for you if it wasn’t

 

[Kaon]

I eat meat. I don't think it is wrong to do so. I know that we are always going to have those that are abusive to animals..whether it is pets, beasts of burden or those raised for food.. These are the exception to those that treat all animals humanely.

I do, also, think that dependent on your taste, the way you were raised, your personal feelings and views... and genetic make up.. that less meat or a no meat diet... would be best for your health or state of mind and conscience..

This scripture has always been of interest to me. I believe that diets with meat and without can be healthy or unhealthy.. I wonder what the king was feeding them:

Daniel 1:8-16 King James Version (KJV)

8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.


9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.


10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.


11 Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,


12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.


13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.


14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.


15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.


16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.

Now, I DEFINITELY believe that our genetics may demand meat in our diets now. After Noah literally saw the end of the world, it must have changed his genetics or his progeny's genetics, because he was allowed to eat "anything that moves".

I don't really care about the social issues like PETA, but I care.

 

[Kaon]

Paul said it.
But it's half a verse, taken out of context, used to try to "prove" that eating only vegetables is not wise.

As awesome as Paul is, unfortunate for some, I take orders from the Word of the Most High or the Most High (need to hear it from them). Dogma has been exploited by people who have incredible intentions.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

As awesome as Paul is, unfortunate for some, I take orders from the Word of the Most High or the Most High (need to hear it from them). Dogma has been exploited by people who have incredible intentions.

It should be said that we are to acknowledge the words spoken by Paul(and the other Apostles) as the commandments of the Lord(Here are a few of the verses that say just that- 2 Thess 3:4,6;2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18; 1 Thess 4:1-2; Rom 13:2,9-10; 1 Cor 14:37; 1 Cor 11:1-2). Only when we hear an apostle say that they are not speaking after command of the Lord are we to take as a recommendation only(1 Cor 7:6).

 

[Strong in Him]

As awesome as Paul is, unfortunate for some, I take orders from the Word of the Most High or the Most High (need to hear it from them). Dogma has been exploited by people who have incredible intentions.

If you're saying that you only believe the words of Jesus and do not accept Paul; that's up to you, though I suspect it may be against the rules of this forum.

My point still remains, though - it was part of a verse, taken out of context. We can make the Bible say almost anything we want it to say if we treat it in this way.

 

[Kaon]

It should be said that we are to acknowledge the words spoken by Paul(and the other Apostles) as the commandments of the Lord(Here are a few of the verses that say just that- 2 Thess 3:4,6;2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18; 1 Thess 4:1-2; Rom 13:2,9-10; 1 Cor 14:37; 1 Cor 11:1-2). Only when we hear an apostle say that they are not speaking after command of the Lord are we to take as a recommendation only(1 Cor 7:6).

Of course. When Paul, Mark, Peter, John, Moses, Ezra, Enoch, etc. are aligned with the Word of the Most High (including in writing), then there is no choice but to consider their words instruction. However, commandments come from the Most High - through the Living Word of the Most High Himself: we obey Him alone, and by default we are upright on this plane of existence (seek the kingdom first, and such).

So, if any man contradicts the Living Word of the Most High (including in writing), then they are by definition incorrect. Moreover, the Spirit of instruction comes from the Most High (not a man). That is why I said as awesome as Paul is... because it doesn't matter how awesome of a human he is: if he contradicts the Living Word of the Most High, then he is wrong. We see that is possible even with apostles of the Living Word of the Most High, as Peter denied Him three times (which he, being in the presence of the Living Word of God, knew was wrong).

I don't think Paul contradicts the Word of the Most High, but that is because I don't believe the dogma that has been drawn from his writings - which can, and often do contradict the Living Word of Most High. It is up to us to calibrate everything to the Word of the Most High, and the Most High already promised us He would write His laws and statutes on our hearts so much so that we won't have to ask our neighbour who He is: we will know.